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Originally Posted by martinguerre
oh, the sophistry. apparently, i'm lazy or uneducated, and possibly a red. good to know. have i mentioned how much i really appriciate your sig line? 'cause i do.
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If you want other people to pick up your health care bill you are lazy, period, you want others to work for you without giving anything in return. You want more from the system then you put in. Its being lazy. And I’m glad you like the sig, now lighten up again Francis.
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define affordable??? That's what the example of the full time worker was for, to provide a framework for the previous question. Thus, a review, though i hardly think it's necessary. Average (the mean, the midpoint of a sum total, typical or representative), full time (40+ hours of week, 52 weeks/year) worker (person employed by a business, or in entreprenurial enterprise) should be able (imperative affirmative declaration) afford (provide funds necessary, pay for, possess fiscal resources for) health care (the practice of medicine, dentistry, psychology) when necessary (needed, life supporting, required for function or existance).
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You don’t seem to get the point, so I’ll be clear. If all of your income beyond living expenses went to health care, would it be ‘affordable’? Yes you had the money, so could you afford it? When people say affordable what they are often saying isn’t ‘can I pay for it’ but ‘can I pay for it without it changing my lifestyle’.
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Evoke sympathy? Only if it needs invoking. As i considered a life in ministry, one of my big obstacles was knowing if i would have enough insurance coverage to have my children see a doctor when they needed to. My salary would be pegged to "similar professions" such as nursing, teaching, or social workers.
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We all make choices in life, why should others pay for yours if your lifestyle can not be supported by your income? Fifty percent of all health care in this country is already funded by the government, I don’t see untreated disease in the streets like I have seen in other countries, SOMETHING must be working right, even for ministers kids.
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Should health care be affordable is not a trick question. I'm trying to elict your philosophy of health care as a good. should it soley be determined by market forces? if a person is without the economic means to procure life saving treatment, should doctors be able to refuse care? should there be a credit card reader in ambulances? does working joe or jane have the means to bring their child to a doctor when they fall ill?
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I already covered affordable so I won’t go there again. What you are asking is ‘is health care a right’ and the answer is no. Nothing that makes someone else a slave should be a right. If you are forcing someone to give money/labor to support someone else, under penalty of law you have made them a slave and no one should have a 'right' to your labor, its the big mistake socialists all make, socialism makes us all into slaves. Should doctors be able to refuse care? Yes, doctors are people not machines, and you have no right to their time any more than I have a right to yours. Jane and Joe should have the means to bring a child to a doctor when they fall ill, I don’t know how Jane and Joe are, and no Jane and Joe in this country CAN’T take their child to see a doctor when they fall ill (I used to work in a free clinic for children). That being said Jane and Joe need to take a responsibility for having children INCLUDING a financial one.
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I could keep asking...but you already have the point. if i were you, i wouldn't want to answer that question, either. But it's kind of on the table. So what's your response?
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You are not me, and I’m sure we both thank Jobu for that. Most medical procedures are not due to life threatening illness but are elective in that you won’t die if you don’t get them. They will often effect the quality of your life, but thats not an issue for socialized care. Anyone who thinks spending MORE of their tax money on less coverage then you can get with private insurance in the US is a smart move is uneducated in the system, period. I’m not going to sugar coat that one. People who need critical care in this country GET it already, but when I hear that a single mother in Canada making 38k a year pays $3346 a year for the health insurance that averages 19.9 weeks of wait time to SEE a doctor, and I hear people who don't have a clue about the system talk about how great it is and how we should force everyone on the US on it, I get a little steamed myself.