pan6467

Before you read this and cut and paste "quotes" from me READ THE WHOLE DAMNED THING with open mind. Don't cut only what helps your argument because, my post hopefully will cover it.... but only if you read it as one person's, mine's, OPINION and with as open of a mind as possible perhaps you can see where the comparisons are and actually respect those who question because they hold the keys to never allowing a Hitler to run our country. As long as their dissensions and voices are heard and we respect what they say (whether we agree at all on what they say), we will not have, nor can we ever have a Hitleresque leader. But the second we laugh them off, believe their cries to be foolish and ignore them without second thought and we blindly follow the leader the a Hitler we will have in no time.

There is merit to comparing Bush to Hitler.

Is it realistic?

To say it can't be or never will be is to open the door for someone who WILL be.

Is Bush a "Hitler"?

To say he is, is a stretch........... To say he isn't and to laugh and believe he cannot ever be, is to be blind............. We need to always be aware of what our leaders do and to not give them "free reign" and turn blind eyes, which for Bush, we seem to have done, in many aspects.

- We ignore, laugh off and disbelieve the calls of our bases being used for torture, and there is obvious facts behind this, Abu Ghraib where we saw pictures, we should have had independant investiagtions and review panels that watch over ALL military "POW" prisons after seeing those. We haven't.

And what seperates us, who claim to be civilized and claim to have such great moral standards and beliefs from the very animals that perfomed 9/11 and torture our prisoners????? We didn't have this "need" in any other war and it is bullshit and ignorant to claim we need it in this one.

- we ignore the fact there are legitimate questions the Bush Administration refuses to answer over the information he passed to start the Iraqi war, first we went because of WMD's, then a 9/11 connection, then to liberate and topple an evil regime, whatever excuse happens to garner support when the questions start coming.

- we ignore, call partisan and allowed the Administration to bully, question patriotism among other truly disturbing things any of the vocal calls for Congressmen/women who question the Administration. Even on Veteran's Day, Bush tried to tell us that questioning the war was unsupportive to the troops and disruptive. It is OUR duty to question why our men and women are being killed overseas, and to challenge whether it is truly needed or not.

- the ties Bush had to the Taliban leadership in Afghanistan before 9/11 and how he put in the leadership afterward, much has been made over Iraq's elections but have we heard much about Afghanistan's

- we ignore the fact that the vast majority of our allies have left us, when after 9/11 we had the power and ability to bring almost every leader to the table and to work out true meaningful ways to make terrorism, through peaceful ways working WITH other leaders and not threatening them by telling them "You are with us or you are against us"

- we ignore the fact that even after courts have ruled we are holding people with no justification, we are breaking our own Constitution, the Geneva Convention and the very beliefs that we held.

- we ignore the fact that the administration holds the people in contempt and refuses to answer any question put forth over the treatments in supposed "POW" camps, the true cause for the war (on record having changed it numerous times to a more "correct and acceptable" answer.)

- we ignore the fact the "Patriot Acts" and all corresponding anti-rights laws are now "on the books" whether enforced yet or not.

- we ignore or have convientently forgotten that this administration tried to recruit Postmen, Cable repairmen, Phone repairmen (among others we allow in our homes to work for us), to spy on us in our own homes and report "anything that didn't seem right" to authorities. The only reason this was stopped wasn't because of the people's cries, it was because the Postmaster REFUSED to let his office be used as such.

But by ignoring these does not make us "NAZI" Germany or close yet. We still have a press (although we work to destroy it by telling everyone how biased it is and how we cannot believe what they say..... unless of course they agree with "us"), we still have an opposing party, who is starting to find their balls and truly dig in and hold accountable those that need be.

So, for some, who believe what I have just written in part or as a whole, yes Bush can arguably be compared to some degree to Hitler.

There are many similarities and if you study history you can see them.....

- the hatred for the press, educators and entertainment, and their never ending attacks until they were able to control all of them

- the hatred of the poor, blaming them for the problems of the nation, cutting social programs

- the radio talking heads that blindly spewed propaganda,

- the divisive and antagonizing, hatred of the dissenting party, the questioning of patriotism, humiliating, bullying of anyone who disagrees and giving total blind and unquestiong belief that the Administration can do no wrong whatsoever and the buying of excuses, the total belief that Bush has done "nothing wrong at all".

- Hitler used religion and religious leaders as a huge ally, then when they were no longer needed he destroyed them very effectively.... He used religion as excuses and religious leaders to further his hatred of homosexuals, those who disagreed with him, educators, media and so on......

All were very effective for Hitler and all have in one way or another been used by Bush.

BUT there are the differences:

- Germany was a defeated country, slow to rebuild facing great economic hardships, when Hitler came in and turned the economy around to make it one of the few in that era actually progressing during the Depression that gripped the world.

- Hitler invaded countries to start a war so that patriotism and his economical control over the people would stay great and make it easier for his attrocities against the Jews and dissenters to go more unnoticed and unquestioned and to give the state the right to have a "martial law" and control over the media, schools, cities and people

- going backwards financially instead of growing (although it can be argued that controlling the poor is far easier than controlling people who have money, Stalin proved that)

- the ability to dissent even if patriotism is questioned, mental facilities questioned and bullying with personal attacks are thrown at those

- a 2004 presidential election, a 2006 midterm election where the party in power may lose some of that power

- The American people were raised with far more freedoms and beliefs of tolerence than those of the 1920's - 1940 Germans

- an international press (and a domestic press, small that it maybe) that can still question.... no matter how attacked

- an internet that allows people to question and exchange facts and to be more viligent.

_ there has been no "Beer Hall Push" yet, not total domination of control, yet. In fact, with the approval polls at record lows and Dem. governors being elected in 2 major key states and people becoming more vocal and open to questions and themselves questioning, it seems maybe the administration has gone too far and people are starting to think, there is something there.

So where does all this leave us?

IMHO there are similarities that cannot be laughed at or ignored and there are great differences, that must be appreciated.

ALl we can do is be watchful and hold our leaders to the highest standard and question them even if they are in the same party. We cannot blindly follow or allow our voices nor or hearts be unheard, simply because we have been led down a road to "hate and totally disbelieve the other side in everything". We cannot continue the "I'm right and you're wrong and so I will attack everything you say and it will reaffirm my belief in the leader I chose."

We have a history of being forgiving to our enemies, to rebuilding them without prejudiced and to hold ourselves to the highest of moral, ethical and spiritual standards and to hold accountable leaders that do not. (This is where I see the hypocrasy between the people so quick to fry Clinton for anything they could find and yet turn blind eyes to Bush without questioning anything that comes out, without even allowing the thought there maybe something there and vice versa..... but that's another thread).

So in the end, even if Bush were another Hitler, it would take far more time to build the total blind following of a nation where dissenters disappear.

Is it possible though, that he can ever be? No, however, we have laid groundwork to continue down that path. (However, Bush can turn into a Hitleresque leader if something were to happen and elections were "suspended" in 2008, or he was somehow able to maintain control..... Bush himself though is a puppet, it is the puppet masters that may be able to retain control simply by putting in a more charismatic leader that inspires even more blind followings and partisan hatred.)

The biggest problem I have and the biggest fear I have in this subject is that when anyone does question the possibility of Bush becoming a "Hitler", within the 1st paragraph they have to say "Hitler killed Jews and everyone who questioned him". That's true, but if Bush did that right away there would be too much outcry, even with attacks, threats, and total disregard for opposing views if people who held them started "disappearing" or were imprisoned people in America would start doing something, but there maybe a time when they won't.

Theoretically, it is highly possible for someone as Bush to become Hitler, in practice it is not as simple as it looks and would take a very strong mastermind that could plot every concievable roadblock and methodically destroy them.

So in the end, there is far more against Bush being a Hitler than there is for, but we should never attack those that can find comparisons or try to raise awareness of similarities, because that will allow us to be vulnerable to the next Hitler.

There are 2 huge warning signs that cannot be ignored if or when they ever do appear:

- a government spending far more than it takes in, without any regard of debt (this is where Hitler had the help of the Krupps, the Swiss bankers, and some of the richest people of the time backing him and his ideas. It is also where we saw the government take over the factories, the transportaion industries and so on.... this was done to "prevent financial ruin of the companies and to better the state."

- a government that turns more federal than local, that puts into question who truly controls the state, county and city's. A federal law enforcement and laws that make it easier for the nation to control every aspect of every citizens life.

I can see bits and pieces of both either here or on the way.... however, again there is far more dissension than blind following to allow it to happen......YET. And I don't see it happening, but again we need to be ever dilligent and questioning and making sure that it can not happen. And if we see similarities we must make sure we hold our leaders accountable and not give into partisan blindness.

We must remember Hitler did not rise to power in the snap of his fingers, he came to power slowly and methodically, each step was carefully planned, analyzed, and executed to a surgeon's perfection. So, when one sees warning signs whether "the majority" does or not, we should listen with open mind look at the facts and be aware that the possibility is there and to put into place roadblocks or to question why. Because not every similarity is going to be used for the same reason Hitler used it. Also, in today's world it is harder to be so methodical that other countries will allow it to happen as easily as we allowed Hitler. However, it is still possible, the steps may just take longer before the power is realized. But again it is extremely viable and the groundwork is being done quite efficiently.

Hitler's mistakes can be learned from and worked to benefit that next Fuhrer. The biggest obstacle to overcome is to take liberties away without much opposition and selling the people into believing they are needed.

A very excellent read on how Hitler gained the support of the leaders of industry first and then went for the people is 1,068 page William Manchester book "The Arms of KRUPP.".

In that book, one can see many similarities of the rise of Hitler and compare them to America today.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"