View Single Post
Old 09-06-2005, 04:11 AM   #34 (permalink)
smooth
Junkie
 
Location: Right here
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberkok
One of the main tenets of socialism is the alleviation of human suffering. This should not be ignored.
Thank you and indeed your point can not be ignored.

From a US-capitalist/individualist perspective, such offers of aid make no sense without attempting to decipher what the offering nation-state has to gain by making them. That is, one owns an asset and will utilize it (or invest it, in capitalist terms; in fact, one person even referred to it as "political capital") to purchase something else. Without its purchasing power, aid offers make no sense to the capitalist. To the capitliast, human nature is fundamentally evil (before arguing that point read back through the numerous threads regarding the fact that communism looks good on paper but doesn't take into account human nature. If those people don't believe human nature is evil, then substitute whatever term they use to conceive of human nature in its place) and only an objective hand, the free market, can keep human interactions in check. Relinquishment of limited resources without compensation doesn't make sense within this paradigm.

To the communist, however, assets are not owned by individuals. To the extent that they are owned by anyone, ownership rests in the collective and must be utilized for the benefit of the community. There is no concept of just compensation for the expenditure of an asset since the beneficiary already possesses a right to the asset. To a communist, it wouldn't be right to withhold aid from a suffering person perceived to be within the community. To such a person, human behavior is fundamentally good but the market corrrupts human interactions rather than regulating them.

I argue it doesn't make much sense to apply capitalist concepts and motivations to a communist nation-state or its leader. One could, however, argue that Castro is simply using communism as a tool to maintain control over a population. People have argued that in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't implicit in some of these statements. But that's really the only way one can logically argue that aid offers from communist nation-states are motivated by a capitalist rationale. So if you want to state the assumptions you make about human interaction at the offset, we could then see where you are coming from. But simply stating as a truism that people don't as a general rule offer something for nothing doesn't even begin to support your contention in this context, because that only violates the tenets of capitalism except these people aren't operating within your paradigm.

In order to ascertain one's motives for actions you have to understand where they come from--what they fundamentally believe in. So far these comments that aid offers are Machiavellian are presented from within a capitalist frame of reference so I have to question how closely you've approximated a communist's motive for making an offer of human aid.
__________________
"The theory of a free press is that truth will emerge from free discussion, not that it will be presented perfectly and instantly in any one account." -- Walter Lippmann

"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists." -- Abbie Hoffman
smooth is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360