Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Straight, Gay or Lying? Bisexuality Revisited

Gilda · 07-17-2005, 06:18 AM

martinguerre covered the offensive title better than I could, so I'll address the other.

The problem isn't just with the terms themselves, but with applying them inaccurately to those whose life experiences don't match the descriptors, and then claiming dishonesty on the part of those who don't fit the neat categories. Without going into so much detail as to hijack the thread, Bailey describes two distinct, specific etiologies, one for younger transsexuals oriented to men, which he labels "homosexual", and one for older transsexuals oriented to women, whom he labels "autogynephillic".

The first problem here is that the first label is grossly inaccurate and implies that these people are not women, but homosexual men. My sister finds it highly offensive; she is, in her words, a straight woman, is not a gay man, was never a gay man, and was never a gay boy. To call her "homosexual" in any context is to deny her personal experience of having had a female mind and personality her whole life. MTF's oriented to other women, usually those who are older, are homosexual.

More offensive is that the terms are used to illustrate Bailey's theory that MTF transsexuals are actually men who change their sex as a result of a sexual compulsion, in the case of younger transsexuals to have sex with men, and for older transsexuals as a result of a sexual fetish, and not as a result of having a female gender identity, which is the reported life experience of the vast majority of MTF's, and which is the prevalent mainstream theory of transsexuality used by most professionals.

Also offensive is that it denies the life experience of those who don't fit neatly into either category, particularly older MTF's who report feminine behavior as children or no history of sexual arousal to women's clothes / fantasies of being women (autogynephelia), and this is where it ties into the study reported above. His conclusions fit some of the evidence, but not all of it, and so he tries to shoehorn the evidence that doesn't fit into his theory, by forcing inappropriate labels where they don't fit. That's bad science.

07-17-2005, 06:18 AM	#61 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	martinguerre covered the offensive title better than I could, so I'll address the other. The problem isn't just with the terms themselves, but with applying them inaccurately to those whose life experiences don't match the descriptors, and then claiming dishonesty on the part of those who don't fit the neat categories. Without going into so much detail as to hijack the thread, Bailey describes two distinct, specific etiologies, one for younger transsexuals oriented to men, which he labels "homosexual", and one for older transsexuals oriented to women, whom he labels "autogynephillic". The first problem here is that the first label is grossly inaccurate and implies that these people are not women, but homosexual men. My sister finds it highly offensive; she is, in her words, a straight woman, is not a gay man, was never a gay man, and was never a gay boy. To call her "homosexual" in any context is to deny her personal experience of having had a female mind and personality her whole life. MTF's oriented to other women, usually those who are older, are homosexual. More offensive is that the terms are used to illustrate Bailey's theory that MTF transsexuals are actually men who change their sex as a result of a sexual compulsion, in the case of younger transsexuals to have sex with men, and for older transsexuals as a result of a sexual fetish, and not as a result of having a female gender identity, which is the reported life experience of the vast majority of MTF's, and which is the prevalent mainstream theory of transsexuality used by most professionals. Also offensive is that it denies the life experience of those who don't fit neatly into either category, particularly older MTF's who report feminine behavior as children or no history of sexual arousal to women's clothes / fantasies of being women (autogynephelia), and this is where it ties into the study reported above. His conclusions fit some of the evidence, but not all of it, and so he tries to shoehorn the evidence that doesn't fit into his theory, by forcing inappropriate labels where they don't fit. That's bad science. __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert