crumbbum

In my experience many of the examples of the extensive list of things you listed that I have found have been fabricated. If I were to see something genuine, I would certainly not deny it out of hand, I would check into. You are really saying a lot here though- I would appreciate some evidence, links, or some source for all of this. The Israelis have been repeatedly accused of many things that they are in fact innocent of.

Sun-Tzu, I know you are a really intelligent person. I hope that you haven't fallen for a lot of the propaganda that is put out. If you have sources for this stuff, I'd like them so I can check it out. That said, I have seen these accusations many times before, and I have investigated them before. Most of them are taken out of context, or are sheer fabrications. I hope that you have not fallen for this kind of disinformation. I know what you said about, but it really is disinformation. I was wondering if you'd read my last few posts- what did you think about them? Did you have any answers to the points I'd made?

In my experience, if anything, people seem to have a knee-jerk reaction that Israel must be at fault in this conflict. I have seen much abuse of information, and so many facts missed and ignored. I hope that you can take the things I say truly into consideration. I have presented a lot in our discussions, and I hope that your mind is still open about this issue.

As far as the rudeness of the people you met, you really can't judge anything about the conflict from that, it is a cultural difference. The only arab country I have been to is Turkey, but from my experience there the Arabs I met were extremely warm and charming people. From what I understand, this hospitality and warmth is a characteristic of arab and Muslim culture. This, however, has no bearing on the conflict over there.

"the massacres of entire villages"
I have heard many accusations about this, most recently about Jenin, but the only massacre I'm aware of any Israelis committing was at Deir Yassin, and that has been distorted with time (I posted a link about it).

"the plan that’s seems apparent to some of Palestinian irradication lest they move out"
If the Israelis had ever had the intention of driving them out, they would have done so in 67.

"truths about mass graves"
again these accusations have never been substantiated. Last spring when the IDF pulled out of Jenin, everyone immediately accused them of a massacre, with mass graves, etc. Nothing of the sort was found upon investigation, and all the charges were false.

"UN observers being harassed and shot"
Last year 2 UN observers were shot by Palestinian gunmen in their car. I know that a few UN people have gotten caught in crossfires between Israeli troops and Palestinian gunmen. They have also sheltered terrorists in the UNWRA compounds.

"and images to horrid to post on this site of mutilated babies, dead mothers clinging to their dead children didn’t prove to be faked" When you fight using human shields, and hide behind innocent civilians, innocent civilians get hurt. Civilians are never targeted by the IDF.

"video clips of unsuspecting Israeli soldiers that they were being taped beating teenage boys skulls in while their hands were bound proved accurate and real"
If you could provide a source for this, I'd appreciate it. I know that some border policemen were recently indicted in Israel for brutality. It is not common practice, or acceptable in the army. I'm not saying it never happens- there have been many problems with police brutality in America too, if you think about it. That doesn't make it mainstream or acceptable practice in the Israeli Military, and it is not commonplace.

"accounts of the tractor driver that drove homes down in Jenin crushing innocent people and enjoying it,"
Where do you get this from? They give three warning over a bullhorn before they demolish houses. They don't crush people in the houses.

"the stories of helicopters firing missiles into neighborhoods"
There have been helicopter strikes against terrorist leaders. Some innocent bystanders have been hurt at times, it is unavoidable. Civilians are never targeted, and the terrorists targeted in these strikes generally have the blood of many people on their hands, and/or are in the process of planning new attacks.

"Jews reside comfortably in homes the great grandparents of Palestinians that live stacked up on each other in slums built, the long extensive lists of children needlessly shot by Israel snipers to blind, mame or kill"

I don't know about the first part. I wouldn't doubt that there are a few examples of jews living in homes evacuated in 48. Again, most Palestinians left on their own at the urging of arab leaders, thinking they could return once the Jews were wiped out. So what? And Israeli snipers do NOT target Palestinian children, that is ridiculous. Palestinian children are encouraged on TV, in their schools, and by their parents to confront Israeli soldiers. Last time I checked, the use of child soldiers was a war crime. Palestinians children have been shot when crowds of them have surrounded and thrown rocks at Israeli soldiers, threatening their lives, or when they have thrown firebombs, or climbed on tanks(and the soldier is afraid they have a grenade). They are NOT targeted.

"universities were shut down with accusations of promoting anti-Semitism"
They often do.

"crops and infrastructure elements were being systematically destroyed with false accusations of "terrorist" were hiding there"
In the past some Palestinian fields have been cleared after they'd served as a shooting spot for gunmen. This is done in order to protect Israelis from being shot. It is not done "for fun". Infrastructure is not deliberately destroyed, unless it is necessary for a military operation (like to cut the electricity so there are no lights).


I hope you hear me out. I look forward to your reply.

__________________
Truth is peace. We are all souls in bodies.