Quote:
|
Originally Posted by analog
You do realize, of course, that the entire idea of "being a man" and "accepting responsibility" is a totally sexist comment, right? It's about as close to total inequality as one can get. You want to talk about responsibility? Unless the woman was raped, "responsibility" is a fifty/fifty split down the middle.
|
I don't see it as sexist. I see it as the difference between a boy and a man or if you prefer child and adult. Since attempt at argueing semantics over substance. You are right, 'responsibility' is shared, that's why I'm not condoning men acting like pieces of shit and abandoning their kids.
Because I can't remember what you've posted on other threads about it, I'm not specifcally calling you out. However, there are many people that have drawn the sexist card here that love to complain about PC trends. Ironic hardly describes it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by analog
It is thoroughly hilarious to me that all parents will argue to their death what a wonderful blessing/experience/unparalleled joy, and what a special thing it is to have a child and blah blah blah... but when it comes down to talking about other people and whose "responsibility" a possibly (though perhaps not mutually agreed upon) unwanted pregnancy is, and suddenly it's the dirtiest little act, reduced to simple penis & vagina hump talk. Some people are sooooooooo quick to reduce or inflate the significance of an event that's exactly identical to another's experience, simply because it happened to them. Many of you have taken what you consider wonderful and boiled it down to filthy lust just because it wasn't planned- lest we forget that many parents have had unplanned children and are insatiably happy with their decision to keep the child. In all sincerity, bravo for them.
|
I don't know what the hell you are saying there.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SecretMethod70
Analog is right. Perhaps you don't realize this, but your statements here are incredibly sexist. "The natural relationship is between mother and child?" Seriously. Perhaps you've missed the ungodly amount of studies done showing the importance of BOTH parents in a child's development? Not to mention, the mother is better able to care for the child and the father has a financial responsibility? I thought most people arguing for women's rights were trying to get AWAY from this sexist and terribly wrong 1950's Donna Reed stereotype. Just like women are just as capable of handling finances as a man, men are just as capable of being loving, caring human beings.
|
Is a man capable of breast feeding 10x per day in the first couple months and a few times a day for the next two years (the WHO recommends breast feeding up until age 2)? Have you ever read about the benefits of breast feeding and how superior it is to formula? Are you aware of the psychological benefits of breast feeding for infants?
Nobody is saying that women can't work or that men cannot provide love but for the first two years, unless the mother is a total fuck, the baby is better off with the mother. Other posters, however, are doing their best to spin it this way though.
Also, how is a woman taking care of the baby and working avoiding responisbility? Oh that's right, she IS the one taking responsibility while the man acts like a child saying 'it's not fair, it's my money and I don't want to'
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nisses
You're either for equality or you're against
|
Spare me the either for x or against it unless you plan on throwing in a 'you don't hate x' line in for extra humor.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shakran
Man has 0 say in whether or not the kid is had.
Man then has 0 say in whether or not the kid is kept.
Man has 100% responsibility for the production of the kid.
Man has at LEAST (often more) 50% financial responsibility.
That doesn't make sense. If I have no say in whether something happens, then I shouldn't be held financially responsible when it does.
|
If the mother bears the child, is willing to provide all emotional support and continue working to support herself and as much towards the child as she can and is only asking for money to assist with raising the child, how exactly is the man expected to give "100% responsibility for the production of the kid"? Financial responsibility is simple, half of all child related expenses: food, diapers, day care, clothes, furniture, health care costs, education costs, and an amount that would pay for half of the additional space required for the baby. Those numbers are easy to estimate. If that amounts to 1% of his income, fine, otherwise he needs to get a second job.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by shakran
And your comment about men being allowed to run around impregnating women is ludicrous. You talk about being equality minded, then in one sentence you tell us all women are mindless sluts who have their legs open to any man who happens by.
|
The fact that you don't like the analogy does not make it untrue. There are many men out there in the real world that have fathered children with multiple women and haven't done shit to make things right. If men are able to opt out of responsibility, not only the amount of useless fathers increase exponentially increase, it will be perfectly acceptable.
Also, I never implied that women are mindless sluts, you inferred that. It's not my fault that you thought that meant I said all women are sluts, maybe that reflects your bias.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by analog
If a pregnancy happens, they were both being careless, or some crazy shit happened- in either event, fault is the same on both parties.
|
Yes you are right. And if the child is carried to term and the mother keeps it she is devoting her life 100% to the child while working to support herself and the child. The man only needs to write a check. Exactly how is the man being given an undue burden?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Da Munk
Many people are saying that it would be selfish for a man to just walk away from his partner and potential child, and you're right. But it is equally selfish for a woman to abort her pregnancy when the father wishes to keep it, and no one questions her right to do so.
|
Because until it pops out it's in her body and people have the ultimate authority over what is allowed to happen to their bodies.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by analog
Also, AGAIN, this discussion is not about making women have abortions, but about the role of the father with respect to "responsibility".
|
No but the fact that women can have an abortion and men have no way to terminate their involement has been brought up several times so it is relevant. It may not have been part of the original thought but 100 posts and there are bound to be related issues dragged into it.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by analog
Of course, this all harkens back to the real point here, which is: conception is a two-person job. Equal cause, equal responsibility.
|
lol, if men who desert their kids were asked for equal responsibility they'd be forced to do more than write a check that covers half of the bills related to the child. At best, they are being asked to share 25% of the responsibility. It's an inconvenience for them. The mother is still devoting her life.
100+ posts and I haven't seen one reply from those who support deadbeat dads that doesn't boil down to 'it's not fair that she can choose an abortion and I don't have an out' Is it fair for the child to have a mother that cannot give it all it needs because daddy was a piece of shit?
Again, how would allowing men to skirt their responsibility make society better?