Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Reality- not all it seems

pennywise121 · 04-18-2005, 08:45 AM

back to my favorite role of devil's advocate....

what if there truly is no objective reality. if all we have is perception, how do we know that there is anything there to be perceived? this line of thought is somehting ive been thinking about since i took my first philosophy course years ago, and read Descartes' Meditations. his argument was that his senses could not be trusted. if we are in a fever and we think we see a spider on the wall that isnt actually there, our senses have betrayed us. we, however, are perfectly content in our knowledge that there is a spider on the wall.

Modern skeptics have taken this to the next level.
Error theory states:
1. If i cannot be certain that my perceptions are not in error, there can be no claim of knowledge (in this case, of an external world)
2. i cannot be certain that my perceptions are not in error.
---------------------------
3. there can be no claim of knowledge

Deception theory states
1. If i cannot be certain that i am not being deceived in my perceptions of the world, then there can be no epistemological claim (again, about objective world)
2. i cannot be certain that i am not being deceived.
---------------------
3. there can be no claim of knowledge.

within that framework, it would seem that it is not the ones who doubt an objective reality, but the ones who believe that must show some truth to the tale, as it were
(personally, i kinda like CSfilm's solipsistic argument, but thats besides the point).

ultimately, if you and i were standing next to each other, asaris, and we were both looking at an object, we are seeing two different things. we may disagree on what color said object is, or how large. ultimately, our perceptions rule the day. what if we disagree on what the object is, or the location of the object? Moreover, whatever we are looking at is defined by the agreed upon usage of our individual language communities (if, for example, you see an orange, and i see una naranja. Do these words necessarily imply all the same things?).

with this in mind, it seems rather a reasonable conclusion to draw that there is no objective reality.

04-18-2005, 08:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
pennywise121 Upright Location: Sacramento	back to my favorite role of devil's advocate.... what if there truly is no objective reality. if all we have is perception, how do we know that there is anything there to be perceived? this line of thought is somehting ive been thinking about since i took my first philosophy course years ago, and read Descartes' Meditations. his argument was that his senses could not be trusted. if we are in a fever and we think we see a spider on the wall that isnt actually there, our senses have betrayed us. we, however, are perfectly content in our knowledge that there is a spider on the wall. Modern skeptics have taken this to the next level. Error theory states: 1. If i cannot be certain that my perceptions are not in error, there can be no claim of knowledge (in this case, of an external world) 2. i cannot be certain that my perceptions are not in error. --------------------------- 3. there can be no claim of knowledge Deception theory states 1. If i cannot be certain that i am not being deceived in my perceptions of the world, then there can be no epistemological claim (again, about objective world) 2. i cannot be certain that i am not being deceived. --------------------- 3. there can be no claim of knowledge. within that framework, it would seem that it is not the ones who doubt an objective reality, but the ones who believe that must show some truth to the tale, as it were (personally, i kinda like CSfilm's solipsistic argument, but thats besides the point). ultimately, if you and i were standing next to each other, asaris, and we were both looking at an object, we are seeing two different things. we may disagree on what color said object is, or how large. ultimately, our perceptions rule the day. what if we disagree on what the object is, or the location of the object? Moreover, whatever we are looking at is defined by the agreed upon usage of our individual language communities (if, for example, you see an orange, and i see una naranja. Do these words necessarily imply all the same things?). with this in mind, it seems rather a reasonable conclusion to draw that there is no objective reality. __________________ Food for thought.