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Jackebear · 02-22-2005, 02:06 AM

Alright ladies and gentlemen....

Even though I like Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Richard and think Crosby could be a great player as well when the season starts again, I believe we got way off base here regarding the original posting of the meeting on Saturday and the possible last minute un-cancellation of the season.

So, if you don't know already....it is finally over, done, finished.

Here's to hoping they can come to some sort of equitable agreement this summer.

It's official...
_________________________________________________________________
It's really over: NHL talks break down

CP/TSN.ca

NEW YORK (CP) - This time it is over. For good.

Despite the presence of Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux, another round of NHL talks failed to save the season Saturday.

"The season was over on Wednesday and it's certainly not going to be resurrected after today," NHL Players' Association senior director Ted Saskin said after the 6-hour session. "It's 100 per cent certain coming out of today's meeting that nothing could impact the cancellation of the season."

The NHL agreed whole-heartedly, but was mystified more by what didn't happen in the meeting.

Related Info
McKenzie: Still a window of opportunity
NHL Insiders
NHL Insiders II
Wayne Gretzky
Don Meehan

"The bottom line is, our understanding was that this meeting was for them to come forward with a new proposal but it never got to that point," NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly told The Canadian Press in an interview.

Like most observers, the league heard all the buzz Friday about a possible deal and privately hoped it meant the union was coming armed with an offer.

"We took a far different approach to this meeting than apparently they did," Daly said. "The media advisory they put out last night, all the leaks in the press about a deal being done at $45 million (salary cap), I don't know where those came from but I can tell you they didn't come from our side.

"So there was certainly a suggestion that they were prepared to make us a $45-million offer today, but that didn't happen."

Saskin obviously saw it differently.

"I can't imagine how they would take that approach when what was clear is that they invited us to a meeting," Saskin said in a later interview with The Canadian Press. "So in that circumstance, you would expect and what we had heard is that they had more that they wanted to offer than what they did the other day.

"But before even getting into the number it became more important to address what the systemic issues were around the number and that quickly let us to conclude the areas of disagreement are far more profound than was originally thought."

The league, privately, was stunned it didn't get an offer.

"The union is still intent on negotiating for more than we can afford," commissioner Gary Bettman told the league's 30 owners in a memo obtained by The Canadian Press. "They put nothing new and concrete on the table. "Unfortunately I was correct on Wednesday when I said we were much further apart then the media was portraying."

There never was a discussion on bridging the gap between their last two salary cap proposals, the owners at $42.5 million US and players at $49 million. Most of the meeting was spent on the league further explaining details from its final offer, and the players didn't like what they heard.

"I think there was a misconception that the two sides were close," NHLPA president Trevor Linden told reporters after the meeting. "I think, frankly, it came from the side of ownership and certainly general managers and some players and fans and media.

"But I think it was crystal clear from our standpoint that we weren't and that was evident today."

Added Colorado's Vincent Damphousse, a union vice-president: "When we saw more details on their offer we realized it was much worse than we thought."

Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla said he was more than devastated to hear how things went badly Saturday.

"It's beyond that," he said by phone. "Especially when it looks on the surface like it's just about a (salary cap) number but then the league changes other things in the deal."

The NHLPA says the league altered a number of facets from the Dec. 9 union model it was supposed to work from with the salary cap. The league sees is differently.

It doesn't matter, hockey is dead again, and fans have been burned twice in four days.

"It's such a sad situation for hockey," Iginla said. "It's way past anger and frustration.

"It's like a nightmare that won't end."

Saturday's meeting was preceded by days of rumblings and phone calls and behind-the-scenes activity with players, owners, GMs and agents all involved in trying to get both sides together one more time.

After hearing all the chatter from both sides, Daly phoned Linden on Thursday to set up the meeting and Linden accepted only after asking for the presence of Gretzky and Lemieux.

Lemieux, the Pittsburgh Penguins player-owner, and Gretzky, managing partner of the Phoenix Coyotes, were joined on the league side by Daly and outside counsel Bob Batterman.

"As silly as it sounds, the talks were pretty positive," Gretzky sighed.

"Mario and I have not been involved in the ongoing negotiations," Gretzky told TSN. "I think that both sides, mutually, tried to bargain in good faith and had extensive talks today. We met for seven or eight hours and, unfortunately, couldn't come to an understanding. But, as I said at the end of talks today, from the outside point of view, it looked like we made some strides even though we're still apart. Both Mario and I encouraged both sides to keep talking."

Said Gretzky in a statement: "Mario and I were happy to be part of the process and everyone seemed to work very hard together. We had a constructive meeting and we only hope they will continue meeting for the betterment of the NHL and its fans."

Added Lemieux: "I hope all parties continue talking and come to a solution for the betterment of the game. I certainly appreciate the work Gary and Bill have done a lot more, now that I have been part of one of these sessions."

Saskin and Linden were joined in the meeting by Damphousse and NHLPA director of business affairs Mike Gartner.

The new dynamic at least provided a civil and cordial atmosphere.

"Mike Gartner was a very, very positive influence in the meeting and we concluded and we all agreed that we have to sit down and work through these issues, that the league needs a new deal, that the players need a new deal and the sooner we can reach a new deal the better," Daly said. "I wish we had that spirit of co-operation of dialogue from the start but we haven't."

Not in the meeting Saturday were the leaders, commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, the latter still making the trip to New York but waiting in the wings for developments.

Privately, the league doesn't want Goodenow in the room, just as the union would prefer Bettman to stay away as well.

The focus now is on the 2005-'06 season. After a board of governors meeting the week after next, the league will likely reach out at the NHLPA and try to renew talks in an effort to get a deal done as soon as possible.

The league would love to get a deal done by May in order to hold an entry draft in June, reach out to fans and corporate sponsors, market the game with its new rules. In short, re-launch hockey.

02-22-2005, 02:06 AM	#40 (permalink)
Jackebear Insane	It's really over now!!! Alright ladies and gentlemen.... Even though I like Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Richard and think Crosby could be a great player as well when the season starts again, I believe we got way off base here regarding the original posting of the meeting on Saturday and the possible last minute un-cancellation of the season. So, if you don't know already....it is finally over, done, finished. Here's to hoping they can come to some sort of equitable agreement this summer. It's official... _________________________________________________________________ It's really over: NHL talks break down CP/TSN.ca NEW YORK (CP) - This time it is over. For good. Despite the presence of Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux, another round of NHL talks failed to save the season Saturday. "The season was over on Wednesday and it's certainly not going to be resurrected after today," NHL Players' Association senior director Ted Saskin said after the 6-hour session. "It's 100 per cent certain coming out of today's meeting that nothing could impact the cancellation of the season." The NHL agreed whole-heartedly, but was mystified more by what didn't happen in the meeting. Related Info McKenzie: Still a window of opportunity NHL Insiders NHL Insiders II Wayne Gretzky Don Meehan "The bottom line is, our understanding was that this meeting was for them to come forward with a new proposal but it never got to that point," NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly told The Canadian Press in an interview. Like most observers, the league heard all the buzz Friday about a possible deal and privately hoped it meant the union was coming armed with an offer. "We took a far different approach to this meeting than apparently they did," Daly said. "The media advisory they put out last night, all the leaks in the press about a deal being done at $45 million (salary cap), I don't know where those came from but I can tell you they didn't come from our side. "So there was certainly a suggestion that they were prepared to make us a $45-million offer today, but that didn't happen." Saskin obviously saw it differently. "I can't imagine how they would take that approach when what was clear is that they invited us to a meeting," Saskin said in a later interview with The Canadian Press. "So in that circumstance, you would expect and what we had heard is that they had more that they wanted to offer than what they did the other day. "But before even getting into the number it became more important to address what the systemic issues were around the number and that quickly let us to conclude the areas of disagreement are far more profound than was originally thought." The league, privately, was stunned it didn't get an offer. "The union is still intent on negotiating for more than we can afford," commissioner Gary Bettman told the league's 30 owners in a memo obtained by The Canadian Press. "They put nothing new and concrete on the table. "Unfortunately I was correct on Wednesday when I said we were much further apart then the media was portraying." There never was a discussion on bridging the gap between their last two salary cap proposals, the owners at $42.5 million US and players at $49 million. Most of the meeting was spent on the league further explaining details from its final offer, and the players didn't like what they heard. "I think there was a misconception that the two sides were close," NHLPA president Trevor Linden told reporters after the meeting. "I think, frankly, it came from the side of ownership and certainly general managers and some players and fans and media. "But I think it was crystal clear from our standpoint that we weren't and that was evident today." Added Colorado's Vincent Damphousse, a union vice-president: "When we saw more details on their offer we realized it was much worse than we thought." Calgary Flames superstar Jarome Iginla said he was more than devastated to hear how things went badly Saturday. "It's beyond that," he said by phone. "Especially when it looks on the surface like it's just about a (salary cap) number but then the league changes other things in the deal." The NHLPA says the league altered a number of facets from the Dec. 9 union model it was supposed to work from with the salary cap. The league sees is differently. It doesn't matter, hockey is dead again, and fans have been burned twice in four days. "It's such a sad situation for hockey," Iginla said. "It's way past anger and frustration. "It's like a nightmare that won't end." Saturday's meeting was preceded by days of rumblings and phone calls and behind-the-scenes activity with players, owners, GMs and agents all involved in trying to get both sides together one more time. After hearing all the chatter from both sides, Daly phoned Linden on Thursday to set up the meeting and Linden accepted only after asking for the presence of Gretzky and Lemieux. Lemieux, the Pittsburgh Penguins player-owner, and Gretzky, managing partner of the Phoenix Coyotes, were joined on the league side by Daly and outside counsel Bob Batterman. "As silly as it sounds, the talks were pretty positive," Gretzky sighed. "Mario and I have not been involved in the ongoing negotiations," Gretzky told TSN. "I think that both sides, mutually, tried to bargain in good faith and had extensive talks today. We met for seven or eight hours and, unfortunately, couldn't come to an understanding. But, as I said at the end of talks today, from the outside point of view, it looked like we made some strides even though we're still apart. Both Mario and I encouraged both sides to keep talking." Said Gretzky in a statement: "Mario and I were happy to be part of the process and everyone seemed to work very hard together. We had a constructive meeting and we only hope they will continue meeting for the betterment of the NHL and its fans." Added Lemieux: "I hope all parties continue talking and come to a solution for the betterment of the game. I certainly appreciate the work Gary and Bill have done a lot more, now that I have been part of one of these sessions." Saskin and Linden were joined in the meeting by Damphousse and NHLPA director of business affairs Mike Gartner. The new dynamic at least provided a civil and cordial atmosphere. "Mike Gartner was a very, very positive influence in the meeting and we concluded and we all agreed that we have to sit down and work through these issues, that the league needs a new deal, that the players need a new deal and the sooner we can reach a new deal the better," Daly said. "I wish we had that spirit of co-operation of dialogue from the start but we haven't." Not in the meeting Saturday were the leaders, commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow, the latter still making the trip to New York but waiting in the wings for developments. Privately, the league doesn't want Goodenow in the room, just as the union would prefer Bettman to stay away as well. The focus now is on the 2005-'06 season. After a board of governors meeting the week after next, the league will likely reach out at the NHLPA and try to renew talks in an effort to get a deal done as soon as possible. The league would love to get a deal done by May in order to hold an entry draft in June, reach out to fans and corporate sponsors, market the game with its new rules. In short, re-launch hockey. __________________ Life's jounney is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn-out shouting, "Holy sh*t! What a ride!" - unknown