Mephisto2

I've noted with interest that many posters here, on both sides of the political debate, often resort to quoting George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton etc, as if this gives their argument some additional moral weight.

I say "So what?"

The fact that someone said something (more often taken out of context than not) over two hundred years ago, means very little and has almost no relevance to today's society. People here say "the Founding Fathers never envisaged that [such and such] would be interpreted that way" or "the Founding Fathers never imagined [such and such] when they wrote the Constitution".

Guess what? The Founding Fathers never imagined microwave popcorn, Cheez Whiz or Viagra either.

Using their opinions, which were products of their time and environment, to justify such things as support for fully automatic weapons, hard-core pornography, abortion, prayer in schools or the right to wear a t-shirt with someone's face on it is... well, is just plain stupid. Why the almost revertional breath-taking when someone whips out a quotation?

Ireland is a relatively new country. Our nation was born out of an armed struggle against the British Crown (not, in theory, unlike yours). Today these people would be considered terrorists. They bombed, murdered, tortured, intimidated their way to achieving a free and democractic nation for the majority of Irish people. Yet very few Irish would consider using some of their phrases to justify actions today. People look back, not with fondness, but with understanding; proud of our achievements but (almost) embarrassed by some of the means by which they were achieved.

Why not so America?

Many of your Founding Fathers were slave holders. Is that something to be proud of? You don't often hear that bandied about to make a political point. Now, I'm not disrespecting your history. You should be rightfully proud of it. I just can't understand why some believe making reference to someone, who died over 200 years ago and was a product of their time, and made a particular comment, makes their argument any more "righteous" or "valid". It doesn't.

Just an interesting (and interested) observation of behaviour on both sides of the political divide. Your independence was won long ago.

Let go. Move on.


Mr Mephisto