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Old 10-31-2004, 04:25 PM   #89 (permalink)
Konichiwaneko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto
You won't stir me up at all! I enjoy debate and learn from others all the time. Your questions below are very interesting ones and they made me think quite a bit before replying. That's what this is all about!



Sure thing.



Well, let's answer the last question first. Would I accept Bush if his strategy turned out right in the end? Yes. Yes I would. That is, insofar as it's up to me.

There are som differences though. First and foremost, the Union, the whole United States, is not fighting a Civil War now. It is not in the utmost danger of collapsing. And Bush is not throwing men and women into combat in the same way as Grant did.

Grant and Lincoln "did the numbers". They knew the Confederacy couldn't keep up with the casualties that the North could. But that was a sign of the times. No one, no President could do that today. Times have changed. People's beliefs in what is worth dying for has changed. And a lot of Americans don't believe that it's worth dying to ensure the Vice-President's cronies get some juicy oil contracts in Iraq (joke... kinda).

So in summary, if Bush were "proved right" would I accept him? Of course. But I honestly don't think he will be proved right in his war in Iraq, his environmental policy, his social policy. That's the problem with a lot these things. They're very subjective. The Civil War was pretty "cut and dry". Either the North won and preserved the Union, or the South won and destroyed the Union. I don't believe there's such an easy logic to the Iraqi conflict.




Well, whilst Lincoln tried to reach out and understood, especially before the Civil War broke out that it was incumbent upon him to govern by the law and for those who also did not support him, he was never afraid of lambasting or criticising the "opposition". And don't forget that Bush does the same! So, to be honest, I'm not sure if using Kerry's political criticism of the right is appropriate as a foil in this case. Bush attacks and criticises the left just as much (if not more).

Will Kerry's berating back-fire on him? Well, I don't think so. No more than Bush's berating has back-fired on him. There will always be people who argue for either side.

What if he doesn't "fix" things? I don't think any one man can fix the things broken in any society. Especially Kerry if the Congress has a Republican majority!

Will people continue to think the US is dysfunctional? Well, I don't think it is. It obviously is functional as a society. There are things that are not working right. Kerry and Bush both agree on that. But they both have different political agendas and political beliefs. My preference are for those promulgated by Kerry, but that doesn't mean I don't understand, or that I disrespect those of Bush and his supporters.




Well, I don't know if you could say Grant was terrible at his job as a general. Certainly as a President, but I'm not sure as a general.

Do I think Bush will be vindicated over time? Well, that depends upon the end result. I personally don't believe his strategy (if you will) is the best way to address the threats and challenges that America faces. Who know (though) what history will tell us. In a hundred and forty years from now, maybe Bush will be considered a great President. I don't argue that possibility. My gut feeling is that he won't be, but I've been wrong in the past.

Let me tell you one of the main reasons I don't think Bush will be considered a great President. Simply because of the polarization of US politics. I honestly believe he doesn't really care that much for those that disagree with him. The opposite can be said for Lincoln, who very much cared what the opposition felt and tried to always walk a middle ground (before civil war made this impossible).

Finally, if you are asking if Bush will ever be considered as great, or in the same league, as Lincoln, then no. I don't think so. Ever.

Let me add that I think the "right", the conservatives, the Republicans have produced many great politicans and Presidents. Lincoln himself for example. Even Reagan could be considered a great President (even though I don't support Reaganomics and some of his rush towards militarization), but he's certainly head and shoulders above Bush in stature, intelligence, charm and capabilitiy. Colin Powell would have made a great President. Cain would have made a great President.

But Bush? My honest opinion is no.

So I guess "my beef" (if you will) is not with conservatism as a whole, but with Bush in particular. I honestly don't think he's that great.




Not sure if this is up to your expectations! LOL



Mr Mephisto
I think those are great and well thought out answers, and I like you Mr. Mephisto. You would be someone worth talking to in real life, and seem to stand well on your belief.

I think you bring up very vaild points, and I'm going to study your approach for little bit.
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