roachboy

it is obviously possible to have more than one position in a conversation/debate that is formally true/correct:

if a given position selects from within the pool of premises that are understood as legitimate (that is, legitimate within the general frame of reference) and does not violate rules for combination/derivation particular to a given debate, the argument can be true and/or correct.

and because there are multiple political positions, there are multiple possible arguments that can be formally true/correct.

once you reach the point of impasse, or talking by each other, the discussion can be shifted to the level of contesting premises--if more conservatives were able to do that, debate might be a hell of alot more interesting.

since claims to absolute truth seem the exclusive purview of the right these days--as a function of the pseudo-ground that circulates within their political world--you know, there is a god, god is a republican blah blah blah, they apparently not only feel that they do not need to defend their positions in terms other than their own (a way of concelaing the fact that they cannot do it, that more often than not when you get to this level, their positions vanish like steam, not even smoke...) but that somehow they are entitled to indulge sub-p.j. o rourke style sarcasm to replace the need to actual argument---the manly man way to not defend what is in most case the indefensible.

but i look at the notion that the representatives above of this position cannot even get straight the basic notions of validity in an argument is a pretty good index of why potentially interesting discussion often grinds to a halt.


btw i dont think that politics here is the purview of the angry. people get heated when they talk about this kind of question--maybe because they think it important to them, important enough to engage--so why be either surprised or annoyed by it? why even comment on it?
the only problem is that there seems to be distinct limits to how far you can go here in engaging across positions on a fundamental level--the fake distinction betwen politics and philosophy gets in the way--and that is probably why there is such cynicism about the debate changing anyone's mind. it is a self-fulfilling cycle.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite