Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Promoting Reform in the Middle East -or- Deceptive Imperialism

roachboy · 07-09-2004, 09:45 AM

this is more than a "difference of opinion"

you are empirically wrong and the conceptual framework that you use to organize your faulty information is dangerous.

but since you do not address the problems raised for your position at all i assume that underneath it all, you believe that all positions are equally arbitrary, and that yours is correct because it is yours.

this generates considerable frustration for me. your way of arguing your positions makes conversation almost impossible.

i dont suppose the fact that saddam hussein was a secular ruler, presiding for better of worse over a secular state, in any way makes a problem of your position?

i dont imagine that the reports on bbc [[for example]] last night that the resistance in iraq is both alot bigger than was thought and is mostly secular in orientation--this from american intelligence sources--complicates your view in any way?

i dont imagine that your opinion can accomidate the fact that such al-qeada style influence as there might be in iraq at the moment is a function of american actions themselves---that the ideology might be a series of signifiers that pulls together politically otherwise unrelated groups/tendencies? and that the outcome you attribute to a series of ridiculous assertions about the nature of islam--as if it is one thing, as if it can be understood using the categrories that you routinely bring to bear on it--could be entirely situational?

where does bin laden come from?
what is his basic position relative to the government of saudi arabia?
why do you imagine his ideology looks as it does, then?
do you imagine that you could explain **anything** about it from your own frame of reference? try it.

you want to know one of the major reasons why the iranian revolution turned out as it did? because the only spaces that were not suppressed by savak were the mosques. what did that mean? the only spaces where dissent could be expressed in iran before the revolution were mosques--so the dissent got wrapped in the language used there--because it had to function in a kind of code--and so the nature of the revoltuion was a kind of outcome of shaped profoundly by attempts to suppress dissent undertaken by the shah...

07-09-2004, 09:45 AM	#48 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	this is more than a "difference of opinion" you are empirically wrong and the conceptual framework that you use to organize your faulty information is dangerous. but since you do not address the problems raised for your position at all i assume that underneath it all, you believe that all positions are equally arbitrary, and that yours is correct because it is yours. this generates considerable frustration for me. your way of arguing your positions makes conversation almost impossible. i dont suppose the fact that saddam hussein was a secular ruler, presiding for better of worse over a secular state, in any way makes a problem of your position? i dont imagine that the reports on bbc [[for example]] last night that the resistance in iraq is both alot bigger than was thought and is mostly secular in orientation--this from american intelligence sources--complicates your view in any way? i dont imagine that your opinion can accomidate the fact that such al-qeada style influence as there might be in iraq at the moment is a function of american actions themselves---that the ideology might be a series of signifiers that pulls together politically otherwise unrelated groups/tendencies? and that the outcome you attribute to a series of ridiculous assertions about the nature of islam--as if it is one thing, as if it can be understood using the categrories that you routinely bring to bear on it--could be entirely situational? where does bin laden come from? what is his basic position relative to the government of saudi arabia? why do you imagine his ideology looks as it does, then? do you imagine that you could explain anything about it from your own frame of reference? try it. you want to know one of the major reasons why the iranian revolution turned out as it did? because the only spaces that were not suppressed by savak were the mosques. what did that mean? the only spaces where dissent could be expressed in iran before the revolution were mosques--so the dissent got wrapped in the language used there--because it had to function in a kind of code--and so the nature of the revoltuion was a kind of outcome of shaped profoundly by attempts to suppress dissent undertaken by the shah... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 07-09-2004 at 09:48 AM..