Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - liberal and conservative, what do these words mean?

gibingus · 03-12-2004, 02:20 PM

good discussion thus far, but are we losing steam before we get to the bottom of this? we haven't heard why "liberal" is such a bad word from those that call themselves conservative, or moreover, why it is used as an instant insult to anyone who harbors an opposing view to what we might call the 'conservative' agenda.

i think mojo_peipei and mrselfdestruct sum up the stereotypical agendas pretty well. it does seem that there are many more shades of gray between those stereotypes, as sparhawk has brilliantly pointed out. and pan6467's background is priceless food for thought for anyone who considers themselves one or the other.

i'm going to venture a hypothesis for your consideration. i think that in the modern day united states, if there is any black and white difference between the factions, it boils down to this: conservatives/republicans seek to outsource government services to private companies and liberals/democrats seek to build federal infrastructure to service the citizens.

i suspect this is the key to the whole 'liberals raise taxes' notion, which always pops up at campaign time, but does not seem to hold true when looking at the gross revenue of the federal government. the total dollar amount the government pulls in year-to-year NEVER goes down, it always increases because the population continues to grow and the society develops. this means that both liberals and conservatives raise taxes, what differs is which income brackets they tax, how much they change the tax increases or decreases in those brackets, how much tax burden they place outside of the income tax and where and how they spend those tax dollars.

case in point, if republicans really believed in small government and the balanced budget, then they would have to support bill clinton over george bush. clinton managed the government more like republican than bush does, plain and simple. yet, conservatives hate bill clinton and love george bush... why?

i contend that the special interests on each side - liberal and conservative - mislead the public and cloud this single issue with the complicated slate of agendas including gay marriage, abortion, environment, defense, health care, education, and so on, in order to secure our tax dollars from the government for their own organizations in the form of grants, subsidies and subcontracts.

thusly, it appears to me that the real republican ideology is now being carried by the moderate majority of the democratic party. the republican party that currently holds office appears so mired in big business, that their motivations are completely suspect. the other issues are merely a smokescreen to distract us from the fact that our tax dollars are pouring into these corporations bottom lines.

03-12-2004, 02:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
gibingus Insane Location: 38° 51' N 77° 2' W	good discussion thus far, but are we losing steam before we get to the bottom of this? we haven't heard why "liberal" is such a bad word from those that call themselves conservative, or moreover, why it is used as an instant insult to anyone who harbors an opposing view to what we might call the 'conservative' agenda. i think mojo_peipei and mrselfdestruct sum up the stereotypical agendas pretty well. it does seem that there are many more shades of gray between those stereotypes, as sparhawk has brilliantly pointed out. and pan6467's background is priceless food for thought for anyone who considers themselves one or the other. i'm going to venture a hypothesis for your consideration. i think that in the modern day united states, if there is any black and white difference between the factions, it boils down to this: conservatives/republicans seek to outsource government services to private companies and liberals/democrats seek to build federal infrastructure to service the citizens. i suspect this is the key to the whole 'liberals raise taxes' notion, which always pops up at campaign time, but does not seem to hold true when looking at the gross revenue of the federal government. the total dollar amount the government pulls in year-to-year NEVER goes down, it always increases because the population continues to grow and the society develops. this means that both liberals and conservatives raise taxes, what differs is which income brackets they tax, how much they change the tax increases or decreases in those brackets, how much tax burden they place outside of the income tax and where and how they spend those tax dollars. case in point, if republicans really believed in small government and the balanced budget, then they would have to support bill clinton over george bush. clinton managed the government more like republican than bush does, plain and simple. yet, conservatives hate bill clinton and love george bush... why? i contend that the special interests on each side - liberal and conservative - mislead the public and cloud this single issue with the complicated slate of agendas including gay marriage, abortion, environment, defense, health care, education, and so on, in order to secure our tax dollars from the government for their own organizations in the form of grants, subsidies and subcontracts. thusly, it appears to me that the real republican ideology is now being carried by the moderate majority of the democratic party. the republican party that currently holds office appears so mired in big business, that their motivations are completely suspect. the other issues are merely a smokescreen to distract us from the fact that our tax dollars are pouring into these corporations bottom lines. __________________ if everyone is thinking alike, chances are no one is thinking. Last edited by gibingus; 03-12-2004 at 02:27 PM..