Why Won't He Grow Up?

Wow, genuinegirly. Your husband and I have a lot more in common that I ever thought.

My brother is my version of Bil. He's one of the lucky few that "outgrew" mental illness, but he still has tendencies that make it difficult for him to hold down a job. He's had his own legal troubles, and he's been living with our folks for the past 5 years. I guess the good news is that he can drive and hasn't done anything to physically hurt anyone else. I'll call him "C".

A long time ago - probably college or just afterwards - I came to the realization that I was going to have to do for myself. I didn't have the parental safety net that C did and does. I don't for a minute think that our folks love me any less than him, but I'm expected to make my own way in the world. And under the conditions in the house when I left for college, that was fine with me.

I honestly thought that things would change once I (insert: got married, had kids, had kids that could do fun things, etc.), but it never has. Clearly I'm at a disadvantage living 500+ miles away, but there are times where it becomes very clear that I am not a priority. But I've learned something:

My brother isn't the problem - my parents are. He can manipulate them to an extent, but they ultimately consciously decide when to check in and out of my life. Case in point - before my second child was born, my folks said "ok, the due date is X, we'll be up 3 weeks later." He's born, we share the great news and everyone's happy. A few days later, I say "ok, we'll see you guys on X date". The response is "oh, we can't make it then. We have a dinner party that we've been trying to set up for weeks, and that's the only date we can all make it." All the people were local, and all of them were folks that they see fairly regularly. So the birth of their grandchild was a lower priority to them than this dinner party. When I figured that out, I wasn't particularly kind in sharing my opinion, and when my father called me later get me to apologize to my mom for making her cry, I had one of those weird role-reversal conversations where I told him that he raised me to know that family comes first and that I wasn't going to apologize for calling them on their bullshit. Honestly, 5 years later and I'm still mad thinking back on it.

So, genuinegirly, what answers do I have for you? Not a fucking one. I don't have a clue. I don't even know that they sell clues to this kind of problem, let alone where to buy one. Maybe your in-laws are different than my folks, but like I said, I realized a while ago that there wasn't one single problem - it was at least 3 of them.

 

I honestly don't believe that this is something you can "fix" genuinegirly. There is a whole lot going on in the relationship between your in-laws and their son, years of enabling behavior that, at their age, they are not likely going to recover from to any appreciable degree. I say recover because much in the same way Bil is seeking treatment for his drinking, his parents require treatment for their co-dependency.

It's a frustrating situation, I know, having grown up with an alcoholic father, having had an addiction problem of my own, and having married an alcoholic where I played the enabler role for most of the marriage.

For your in-laws, it's not a question of what they would prefer to do, it's a matter of what they feel responsible to do and they feel that their responsibility lies with the "child" most in need of them. You can question the rationale behind these feelings, considering that Bil is a grown man and should be responsible for himself, but the truth is the relationship between he and his parents has never moved into a stage where any of them have really allowed that to occur. They are as addicted to their view of him as a needy child as he is addicted to his own view of needing them.

The binding complexity of this sort of a relationship is difficult for an outsider to comprehend and the feeling is always one of "surely I can reason with them" and on some level you can...temporarily. Your in-laws I'm sure have seen the unreasonable nature of their own behavior but when push comes to shove, we are all too often at the mercy of old habits and behaviors which overwhelm reason.

Bil.

Bil needs to stop being a drain on his parents
Bil needs to help out more
Bil needs a job
Bil needs transportation

You.

What can I do to influence a positive outcome?

This may affect you but it's not your problem, genuinegirly. To make Bil your problem and attempt to steer his life into a place you would like it to be, for his benefit, his parents' benefit, or your own benefit is to do exactly what your in-laws are doing. Enabling Bil. Despite how his parents regard him, Bil is a grown man. Bil has options. We all have options if we choose to look hard enough. Bil will find his own way or he won't.

It's difficult to be the observer and do nothing. But it's more difficult to devote energy into changing the behaviors and attitudes of others only to find that you've exhausted yourself and left yourself more disappointed for the effort.

You don't have to find their unhealthy relationship acceptable and have every right to feel disappointed that the plans have been changed. By all means, talk to your in-laws and to Bil. Tell them exactly how you feel, if you wish but I'd advise not doing it with any expectation that it will change things.

 

I have a sibling who went through most of my late fathers savings, and I think she has had half the money for their house up front. Lovely house etc - spends most of her time on her back, snorting coke, or making films of her kids for specific adult sites. Bereft of morals. I begrudged my dad sort of telling me he had been robbed of tens of thousands on a 'loan'. The betrayal was there all over his face. She always used to say she might as well enjoy their savings instead of them sitting in the bank doing nothing.
If BIL has a safe and cosy billett, he is most likely fairly happy with life jogging along with no real worries. I do think it silly that your MIL puts her big babys wants before the wants of a new grandchild, before making memories with the baby for when she is gone.
On the transport side - I used to cycle to work, used to do well over a hundred miles a week and was faster than the bus. Would that be a transport option? At least its a form of freedom - I didnt have a car, and there were better things to be spending bus fare on.
Whatever you do or dont do, I hope MIL finds herself a backbone when it comes to the naughty big baby, I hope she visits you as you wish - but I honestly cant help advise you. I cut out the horribles - only way I could survive was to amputate the poisoned dross - wish I had done it decades sooner.
Best of luck

 

Since you are not enabling the behavior, you can't stop the enabling, and that's the only thing that can fix this.

Bil could get his probation moved to another county if he had a job or an offer of employment in that county.

But only your parents can cut the cord, and they have to be willing (and have the backbone) to do just that. The only thing you can do is let them know you understand it's difficult and will back them up however you can.

 

genuinegirly: First of all, please stop worrying. There is quite literally nothing you can do to change the entrenched dynamics of your parents-in-law and Bil.
It does suck and your feelings of wanting/needing to help are natural but ultimately, will not change a thing for them and clearly, are adding stress to your life.

There are a lot of great comments/advice above in this thread. I'll finish with a heartfelt you are not alone in having a family member of bil's ilk. If it isn't a brother or bil then it can be an adult son or spouse or elderly parent(s). Long ago on TFP I started a thread about helping or not helping someone I dearly loved. I was the enabler at the time and I knew in my heart that I had to let go and let him do for himself. I still at times want jump in and help fix his life but long ago it became clear that my help wasn't wanted nor welcome. If there's to be change it must begin with them wanting it to happen and taking action to make it so.

 

First off, gotta give massive kudos for Jazz opening up like that. That dinner party thing alone would've led me to react much worse than be frank.


Second, I tend to disseminate situations.

BIL - Criminal record; no driving license, geographically limited due to probation (how long?); low job prospects; high living expenditures; financially not able to support himself.

M-&FIL - Deteriorating health as they age; willing to sell house; primary caregivers to BIL; overly concerned with ensuring BIL is cared for; (presumably) financially healthy. Planned on retiring to your area and enjoy better access to medical facilities.

I don't see why your in-laws can't proceed with the original plan. They sell the house as planned, pay for a place for BIL for a period of one year and throw in a fixed budget for living expenses over the course of that year. Should apartment rent be on the expensive side as well, sharing a 2- or 3-bedroom apartment with others seems like a popular way of cutting accommodation and utility costs.

That way BIL has his basic necessities (food, shelter, warmth, water, electricity) taken care of, enabling him to continue to search for jobs and re-establish himself professionally. Should he have maturity issues, that year will also be great for him to get his own act together, too. In-laws' concerns for BIL should be alleviated with this course of action. This is assuming that BIL at some point in his life managed to live by himself just fine.

In-laws move to your area. The issue that truly remains is the remainder of your In-laws' finances. Should the above BIL setup take too much out of their capital, would it be possible for them to live with you on a permanent basis? If your place is too small for an additional two permanent tenants, funds could possibly be pooled together to rent a bigger place for you and the In-laws?

Getting some more info on your options would great.


Three, influence. Who holds more soft/hard influence within your In-law family? From your description of the situation, it appears as though you hold a good amount of soft power. Influencing your BIL can only be done the way you know, since every interpersonal relationship has its unique dynamics and we forum members would be misguided in telling you what and how to say to BIL to motivate him to sort his shit out.

Does your SO have any hard power? Can he drive to your In-laws' place, slap BIL a couple times, and give him a good talking to? Who holds the most authority within their family unit? Can your SO influence his mother? Who is the most sensible person of the bunch? How persuasive can you and/or your SO be?

Questions, questions, questions...

 

This is a tough-love situation, and inherently difficult for parents to grasp. Your MIL needs to understand that by enabling this behaviour, she is HURTING her son, that she is stunting his growth and full entrance into adulthood. At 35, he doesn't have a lot of time left to get there. She needs to understand that the pain of "throwing him to the wolves" (as many enablers see stopping their enabling) is a good thing for him in the long run. Yes, they can be there if he fails, but he needs to try before he can fail (or succeed), and they are blocking both by not making him try.

I know YOU can see this, but sometimes it takes a face-to-face, heart-to-heart talk with an objective third party to force an enabler see that their love and support is actually harm and confinement. He has exchanged one jail for another.

The conversation has to be done in a way that makes it all about the very real need of the BIL to move on, and not an attack on the love/support your in-laws. There should also be a separate conversation with the BIL, saying much the same thing. In both cases, be wary of passive non-resistance ("You're right", "I agree", "I see what you mean", "I should do that", etc.). Look for positive assertions of change ("I will do that by xx/xx/xx", "You're right, I HAVE to do that for him", etc.). And be prepared for a lot of emotional turmoil, and maybe some accusations that you are doing this for YOU/BABY, not him. Convince yourself that it's short-term pain for long-term gain on all parts, and ignore any lash-back. And be prepared for backsliding when he's not immediately successful. Sometimes you just have to keep pushing.

I've had to go through this with close relative, and I don't envy you one bit, but sometimes it just needs to be done. Best of luck.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, that's why I warn about the passive non-resistance. It's one of the most common reactions to being made to face the situation, be it an addiction, a crippling neuroticism, or, as in this case, a failure to launch. I believe that in a case like this, it's much easier to change the enablers if you can convince them of the harm in their enabling, although it's seldom easy to do that.

And as you point out, GG and her hubby are geographically unable to provide the repeated local familial pressure that would be best in this situation. I don't have your extensive background in this area, but I think at least trying one face-to-face confrontation could be worthwile.

 

I would have to agree with the Tough love plan here, Kick him out of the nest, give him a reason to fly. otherwise, without that motivation. he won't be going anywhere.

 

While I certainly subscribe to the tough love mentality, it's simply not that easy. As others have mentioned, the parents are not just enabling Bil, but they are addicted to their own behavior in regards to their son. Let's look at it from their perspective. They see a child that they raised having difficulty in life. Since they are up in age, they probably are already facing down their own realization that they don't have much time left on this earth - and because of that realization, they want (whether consciously or subconsciously) to help their son move forward in life and get out of the hole he's been digging.

We can all sit here and blame Bil or blame the parents and say "Boot his ass out", but in reality, booting him isn't going to be an ideal scenario for either party. Most likely if they booted the boy out of the house, he'd crawl further into his hole and the parents would be left with a heart full of guilt. I think in this instance, a better scenario would be to place him into some sort of live-in treatment facility. That way he would be receiving help for his addictions, be able to get help with a job and transportation and most importantly learn to cope and deal with his issues. This would also allow the parents to feel comfortable knowing their son is moving in the right direction while allowing them to do as they please with the house and with their lives without the guilt. It would also most likely give them some insight into their own actions in how they "enabled" Bil and give them the tools they need so they don't start it again.

I'd venture that Bil needs something to challenge him. A challenge that rewards him and not only gets his mind off of his addiction but allows him to gain some self-worth. Fangirl has great insight here and she (along with the rest of you) have hit it on the head. genuinegirly - you and your husband shouldn't feel guilty because of Bil's wrench throwing nor should you feel responsible but you also need to be firm in your own feelings in this regard. You can help by lending advice and being honest not by giving money or short term solutions. Best of luck

 

GS is right. I've never dealt directly with it but I've witnessed co-dependence. It is frustrating but there is nothing you can do to stop it, they have to stop themselves. I think it's harder than it looks, but I don't really know.

 

Hi, GG

On reading your initial post, I immediately had confirming anecdotes regarding my best female friend in UK and her parents, and a glum conclusion that there's not a lot you can do. Having read the others' posts, well, I'll share if you want, but, in a mood of agony and frustration, I know I've not got anything useful to add to what they've said. IMO they've said it all.

All I've got is that you'd like to give your mom the opportunity to properly experience grandma-hood AND you'd been banking on having someone around to help look after the baby are a crucial period. In your position, I'd draw a line under that. Plan on NO grandmaternal help for baby, and on improvements in the Bil situation being something that is out of your control, and that energy you might have given to him is better spent on your child and bits of the situation you Do have direct control over.

There I thought so. Nothing much to add to what the others said. I'm sorry.

 

I was one of those parents just one year ago. It is very difficult being a parent of a child (adult child) that has an addiction. There is this fear that if you don’t help they will end up dead. My fears almost came to pass last year when I got a call they find my son in his car unresponsive, meet us at the hospital. It was awful driving down there not knowing if he was dead or alive. I was shaking so bad, I had to throw-up once I got there. He survive, but then I knew I can’t be an enabler any longer, because no matter what I do, I can’t save him. I called a friend from Florida and asked him for help, best thing I ever did, he put me on the road to being a better parent and where the line is for enabling. Encourage the parents to make changes and keep to their goals is all you really can do. It’s really sad to see how many parents go through this in the dark.
Going to support group meetings I have seen that when families get together, interventions and stick to goals; changes can be made.
Can you get the family together with Bil and discuss the hard questions and what the outcomes will be if change doesn't happen? Not an easy thing to do, but sometimes necessary to bring around change.

 

That's a really good point, maybe the OP could get mom & dad to an al-anon meeting.