1. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

TOS and the expectation of Online Privacy

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by cynthetiq, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I have never had the illusion that I have any privacy online. I have never had the belief that anything that happens in any space that is not mine as defined and defended as private is going to be private.

    I have always believed that my privacy is revoked the moment I step outside the door. I belief that holds true for when I log onto or connect to any website. If I want privacy I don't leave my house, both physically and virtually.

    Big brother via government does not exist. It won't because we are all too wary of letting it happen. We will however give our information freely to Facebook, Twitter, Bojanjo and other places. We were wary when cellphone companies were going to collect the data to give us coupons nearby, but we let it Google do it. We didn't want Intel to put in identifying numbers onto CPUs lest we have someone track our information while we surf.

    Companies are doing it and we gladly give it to them. The government subpoenas the information it needs from those companies. And then we complain. It doesn't make much sense.

    Why do you believe you have more privacy than what is in the TOS that one never reads? Why do you believe you have any privacy for anything you put into the cloud or the internet?
     
    cynthetiq, Nov 13, 2011
    #1
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
     
    Plan9, Nov 14, 2011
    #2
  3. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    I agree. It's actually good in some ways that a transparency exists. People do however have to not be stupid about their Internet activities. In some ways like when vendors with whom you have monthly contact (bills) insists on using a paperless system going forward, or you'll see a new five-dollar fee tacked on. We have worked it out that we have only 6 monthly bills to potentially wrestle with how to accommodate. To me it's not so much 'loss' of privacy as relinquishment of it. Same result tho', right?

    I have 100% no illusions. I was early on stupid but more so about non-privacy (more hardware/tech) stuff. Lived, learned tho'.
    And Facebook, Twitter, Bojanjo and other places? FFS. Please. They are like big, blinking advertisements for you, me & everyone else and that's how I use them. Not a shred of privacy there.
     
    Fangirl, Nov 14, 2011
    #3
  4. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    By that time it's too late the damage is done.
     
    cynthetiq, Nov 14, 2011
    #4
  5. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Privacy law in the electronic age is new and amazing and really kinda scary.

    Take, for example, the difference between a phone call, a text message and an email.

    In many European countries, they are (IIRC) all treated with the same level of protection.

    In the US? I can read your opened emails, get your text records before I can listen to your phone call.

    ...

    This is where you move into the Pipl, Spokeo, Spock website talk.

    ...

    Whoa, Deja Vu.
     
    Plan9, Nov 14, 2011
    #5
  6. DUANE

    Duane formerly DKSuddeth

    I don't think you could be more wrong if you tried.
     
    Duane, Nov 14, 2011
    #6
  7. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    i think you'll have to cite some examples to prove your point. There is constant friction and push back from many groups to keep the US government out of areas.
     
    cynthetiq, Nov 14, 2011
    #7
  8. DUANE

    Duane formerly DKSuddeth

    what specific examples would you like? king v. kentucky? or the current gps monitoring case? any others? like the amount of 'security' cameras going up in cities all over the place? how about local police skirting warrant requirements for searches by tagging along with health department agents for administrative inspections?
     
    Duane, Nov 14, 2011
    #8
  9. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    ...did you somehow miss the whole 9/11 GWOT thing?

    Eh, they only push back against what they know. And Big Brother isn't a large mass looming in the distance. Big Brother is the ebb and flow of time. Big Brother is the USA PATRIOT Act getting passed in a knee jerk millisecond when the same body can't get its shit together and pass the ERA. If that isn't an example of Big Brother, I don't know what is. Big Brother is bunch of obese, middle-aged white guys. Especially when they're all scared.

    Sorry for the threadjack but somebody has to come between Doom 'n Gloom and Sunshine 'n Butterflies.

    /DK'd!
     
    Plan9, Nov 14, 2011
    #9
    • Like Like x 1
  10. lotsofmagnets

    lotsofmagnets Vertical

    Location:
    reykjavík, iceland
    if it´s not some organisation out for the data it´s the hackers who get the data (look at the recent steam hack.) actually, i´d expect someone like birgitta to know better and actually i do suspect she actually does and is kicking up the stink more to bring attention to the issue than to save her private data which i suspect she never posted in the 1st place. personally i suspect you´d have to have very little knowledge/interest in computers and the internet to not realise just how transparent the entire interwebz is.
     
    lotsofmagnets, Nov 14, 2011
    #10
  11. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    like I said groups are constantly pushing back via the courts. The same thing does not happen for corporations.

    Again we push back against government not against corporations.

    Government can subpoena corporations to circumvent the restrictions.
     
    cynthetiq, Nov 14, 2011
    #11
  12. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I don't deny that gwot is some sort of big brother but many countries have provisions to not allow such things.

    The government does not necessarily act upon the information it collects. Unlike corporate interests which try to find how monetize the information.
     
    cynthetiq, Nov 14, 2011
    #12
  13. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    Location:
    Inside The Nucleus of Feminism
    I think that the difference between the government having access to your data vs. private businesses having access is that, generally speaking, private business will tend to use the data to make more money (which frequently just ends up being annoying, hello targeted advertisements) whereas the government will probably only seek to access this data if it thinks it might want to deprive you of some rights (which is likely worse than getting personalized advertizements). Rarely will the government seek to access your data so it can, say, see if you're paying too much in taxes and notify you if you are.

    I accept that private companies will have access to whatever I put online. I also assume that the government will have access too. That doesn't mean that I think the government should have access to as much data as it does given the completely unresponsive and opaque oversight involved.
     
    Bodkin van Horn, Nov 14, 2011
    #13
  14. DUANE

    Duane formerly DKSuddeth

    so the government can't violate our rights, but they can force a 3rd party to surrender our rights? does that really make sense to you? can I surrender your rights to the government?
    --- merged: Nov 14, 2011 10:19 PM ---
    so it's only big brother if it acts upon what it has access to? is that like 'it's only a police state when we have to show papers every other block?'
     
    Duane, Nov 14, 2011
    #14
  15. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    My point is that the government no longer has to be the group to collect the data. I didn't say they can't violate our rights, they don't necessarily have to. People will fight tooth and nail for them to not have access. Because corporate interests are the way that they are they can watch from the sidelines and subpoena a company to hand over the data.

    Twitter, AT&T are news cases where the government is not the one spying it's the corporation. The corporation is then being asked to hand over the information.

    Visa, Mastercard, all banks reporting for anti-money laundering are other examples of what I'm addressing in the OP.
     
    cynthetiq, Nov 14, 2011
    #15