Politics and little power abuse

Hi everyone,
the reason that pushed me to (re)subscribe to TFP is that, because I always recognized is as a community of mature and reasonable people there is a lot to discuss.

For now there is a little survey of mine:
I live in Italy, and we are accustomed to power abuses by politicians, maybe to much and we are losing perspective about the small things.

There is a recent event that have been a lot minimized, even ridiculized, by the public opinion, recently a big politician (a powerful minister of work) have organized a little private birthday party with 300 people in a off-limits zone (under renovation for years) in the ancient underground of Rome.

So, if I may, can I ask you in what country are you living and how do you consider a politician that uses his influence to have access to an off-limits zone to organize a birthday party? It will risk impeachment or at least forced to public excuses or it is something even you are accustomed to?

 

I live in the USA, and I agree these abuses should anger us. Somehow we are so used to large corruption that these things probably go under the radar, unless a political opponent wants to make it part of a smear campaign.

Impeachment seems reasonable to me. Fines for everyone attending would also seem logical. And a kick in the crotch for good measure, for eroding public trust.

 

As power abuses go, this one seems pretty minor to me but then again, I have no idea how Italians might feel about it. Is it simply because he had the influence and access to this area and they don't, or does this area hold some religious or national significance to them which somehow elevates the abuse in their minds?

US Presidents do things like starting illegitimate wars and authorizing drone attacks in foreign countries. They jimmy with the basic underpinnings of the Constitution in order to suspend habeas corpus rights and justify torture. In light of so many true abuses of power, I would find it difficult to get worked up over a scenario such as you describe but can acknowledge that if it happened in the US, someone would likely make political hay over it despite the fact that nothing would come of it.

 

I feel like the world would be a better place if people followed *intentions* of what doctrines were written for, instead of trying to find loopholes in the *literal* translations.

That being said, I understand that there are some secrets that need to be kept from prying eyes, stuff that needs to be confidential. However, I think that transparency within any governing entity (management, Government, parenting, etc) is a good thing. It builds trust.

The other thing I don't like is governmental officials thinking that they're "above the law." They're citizens, just like anyone else, they just happen to have been elected BY THE PEOPLE in order to speak FOR THE PEOPLE. I feel like most politicians have forgotten this key aspect of voting (and so have many voters). You'd think that they'd try to enforce these laws, instead of trying to find a way to evade them.

/rant

In any event, yes. I would vote for impeachment. If somewhere is off limits, and they venture into this off-limits zone (especially for something as asinine as a birthday party), they should suffer the same punishment as anyone else, or an equivalent punishment regardless.

 

I think there is a mistake we make when we ignore the "little" corruptions that our politicians are involved in. The take an inch then feel entitled to a mile or two. Any corruption is too much, in my opinion.

Tacit Consent is what these people look for in their constituents. If they ignore the small stuff, then they start going larger. Once they reach full corruption, they tend to say that "If you didn't care about the other stuff, what's wrong with what I'm doing now?"

 

Impeachment? Really?
If the US impeached every politician that abused the power of his office, there wouldn't be enough of them to hold hearings on the rest of them.
Italy is a democracy. They hold elections.
Vote the fucker out.

 

it's human nature i think. cops park wherever they want knowing they won't get a ticket, office supplies and batteries are commonly pilfered from workplaces, and bartenders hook up free drinks for themselves and their friends. these and this situation with the bd party are all thought of as perks of the job by the people doing them even if everyone else sees them as morally wrong.

i think the one thing that might make this exceptional though is that i know italy has a lot of old or even ancient historic places and if this one is very fragile and the party put it's condition in jeopardy, that is particularly bad. if not and there was little risk, i'd not give it much thought if the guy was doing a good job overall.

 

Thank for all the replies!

well... Indeed this is a "minor" abuse, as I said even in the title. Simply in Italy no-one bring up this in official proper ways, not even to major stuff, but that is another problem.

The politician had influence and accessed this area for making a birthday party. Common people in Italy cannot go, not even near there, since 20 years more or less. It's the more delicate and intimate part of a 2 thousand year old temple, underground, really big, under renovation for years. And that peculiar part no-one have seen most of it except academics and renovators. I hope it is not been put at risk for a bd party of a friend of a minister, I don't think so, but you can never know...
They just made it there thinking they are above these mundane rules for common citizens.

Well, nasty things happens in Italy too, really freakin' nasty (like billions of euros flying over our heads directly to private banks while the president admitly fucked minor prostitutes, or fines payed to the european union just to let the president broadcast over european rules... stuff like that), but some of it (like the drone part) I think is "part of the political game".
It's dirty, but so is the game.
While that type of minor things are the "we are the elite, we can do as we please and you can't do anything about it".

This is a really minor thing by the way. In the same city just few days ago the governor of the region was found stealing 50 millions of euros (and we are still waiting the resignation), and her secretary was forced to leave by stealing and wasting other couple of millions (he bought with the region money a 60 k€ Smart, which he cannot use because the guy is 1.90m and 180 kg). The worst part is that these filthy thieves, after taking a 250k€ yearly salary, the law grant them for the rest of their lives at least a 50 grand yearly pension paid by us, even if they're both only 50 years old.
Or about antiques, Pompei ruins (beautifully conserved Roman city buried under an eruption in the 80 A.D. and recovered in the 18th century) are LITERALLY falling apart because the money given in the last 10 years was merely necessary to pay the electricity bills...
There are really nasty abuses in Italy, this is a really minor one and is REALLY "under the radar" and I wanted to hear opinion from different countries and political experiences.

In reality this fucker are not in power for an election, but directly appointed by presidential istitution (not elected by the citizens) after the Italian debt crisis of the last year. We call it "technical governament", the president of the republic (an elder figure elected from and between the long-course politicians, not the council president, that is elected by the citizens) when there is some type of crisis can dismiss the governament and appoint one at his will. Usually non-political figures but economy professors and technicians. And that is the case.
In short words: No-one voted for this fucker. No-one can vot the fucker out since she will be out for sure. And I feel she is starting doing as she pleases...