It's not just the Catholics that protect the child molesters

cynthetiq · May 10, 2012

Ultra-Orthodox Shun Their Own for Reporting Child Sexual Abuse
By SHARON OTTERMAN and RAY RIVERA
The first shock came when Mordechai Jungreis learned that his mentally disabled teenage son was being molested in a Jewish ritual bathhouse in Brooklyn. The second came after Mr. Jungreis complained, and the man accused of the abuse was arrested.

Old friends started walking stonily past him and his family on the streets of Williamsburg. Their landlord kicked them out of their apartment. Anonymous messages filled their answering machine, cursing Mr. Jungreis for turning in a fellow Jew. And, he said, the mother of a child in a wheelchair confronted Mr. Jungreis’s mother-in-law, saying the same man had molested her son, and she “did not report this crime, so why did your son-in-law have to?”

By cooperating with the police, and speaking out about his son’s abuse, Mr. Jungreis, 38, found himself at the painful forefront of an issue roiling his insular Hasidic community. There have been glimmers of change as a small number of ultra-Orthodox Jews, taking on longstanding religious and cultural norms, have begun to report child sexual abuse accusations against members of their own communities. But those who come forward often encounter intense intimidation from their neighbors and from rabbinical authorities, aimed at pressuring them to drop their cases.

Abuse victims and their families have been expelled from religious schools and synagogues, shunned by fellow ultra-Orthodox Jews and targeted for harassment intended to destroy their businesses. Some victims’ families have been offered money, ostensibly to help pay for therapy for the victims, but also to stop pursuing charges, victims and victims’ advocates said.

“Try living for one day with all the pain I am living with,” Mr. Jungreis, spent and distraught, said recently outside his new apartment on Williamsburg’s outskirts. “Did anybody in the Hasidic community in these two years, in Borough Park, in Flatbush, ever come up and look my son in the eye and tell him a good word? Did anybody take the courage to show him mercy in the street?”

A few blocks away, Pearl Engelman, a 64-year-old great-grandmother, said her community had failed her too. In 2008, her son, Joel, told rabbinical authorities that he had been repeatedly groped as a child by a school official at the United Talmudical Academy in Williamsburg. The school briefly removed the official but denied the accusation. And when Joel turned 23, too old to file charges under the state’s statute of limitations, they returned the man to teaching.

“There is no nice way of saying it,” Mrs. Engelman said. “Our community protects molesters. Other than that, we are wonderful.”

Keeping to Themselves

The New York City area is home to an estimated 250,000 ultra-Orthodox Jews — the largest such community outside of Israel, and one that is growing rapidly because of its high birthrate. The community is concentrated in Brooklyn, where many of the ultra-Orthodox are Hasidim, followers of a fervent spiritual movement that began in 18th-century Europe and applies Jewish law to every aspect of life.

Their communities, headed by dynastic leaders called rebbes, strive to preserve their centuries-old customs by resisting the contaminating influences of the outside world. While some ultra-Orthodox rabbis now argue that a child molester should be reported to the police, others strictly adhere to an ancient prohibition against mesirah, the turning in of a Jew to non-Jewish authorities, and consider publicly airing allegations against fellow Jews to be chillul Hashem, a desecration of God’s name.

There are more mundane factors, too. Some ultra-Orthodox Jews want to keep abuse allegations quiet to protect the reputation of the community, and the family of the accused. And rabbinical authorities, eager to maintain control, worry that inviting outside scrutiny could erode their power, said Samuel Heilman, a professor of Jewish studies at Queens College.

“They are more afraid of the outside world than the deviants within their own community,” Dr. Heilman said. “The deviants threaten individuals here or there, but the outside world threatens everyone and the entire structure of their world.”

Scholars believe that abuse rates in the ultra-Orthodox world are roughly the same as those in the general population, but for generations, most ultra-Orthodox abuse victims kept silent, fearful of being stigmatized in a culture where the genders are strictly separated and discussion of sex is taboo. When a victim did come forward, it was generally to rabbis and rabbinical courts, which would sometimes investigate the allegations, pledge to monitor the accused, or order payment to a victim, but not refer the matter to the police.

“You can destroy a person’s life with a false report,” said Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zweibel, the executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America, a powerful ultra-Orthodox organization, which last year said that observant Jews should not report allegations to the police unless permitted to do so by a rabbi.

Rabbinic authorities “recommend you speak it over with a rabbi before coming to any definitive conclusion in your own mind,” Rabbi Zweibel said.

When ultra-Orthodox Jews do bring abuse accusations to the police, the same cultural forces that have long kept victims silent often become an obstacle to prosecutions.

In Brooklyn, of the 51 molesting cases involving the ultra-Orthodox community that the district attorney’s office says it has closed since 2009, nine were dismissed because the victims backed out. Others ended with plea deals because the victims’ families were fearful.

“People aren’t recanting, but they don’t want to go forward,” said Rhonnie Jaus, a sex crimes prosecutor in Brooklyn. “We’ve heard some of our victims have been thrown out of schools, that the person is shunned from the synagogue. There’s a lot of pressure.”

The degree of intimidation can vary by neighborhood, by sect and by the prominence of the person accused.

In August 2009, the rows in a courtroom at State Supreme Court in Brooklyn were packed with rabbis, religious school principals and community leaders. Almost all were there in solidarity with Yona Weinberg, a bar mitzvah tutor and licensed social worker from Flatbush who had been convicted of molesting two boys under age 14.

Justice Guston L. Reichbach looked out with disapproval. He recalled testimony about how the boys had been kicked out of their schools or summer camps after bringing their cases, suggesting a “communal attitude that seeks to blame, indeed punish, victims.” And he noted that, of the 90 letters he had received praising Mr. Weinberg, not one displayed “any concern or any sympathy or even any acknowledgment for these young victims, which, frankly, I find shameful.”

“While the crimes the defendant stands convicted of are bad enough,” the judge said before sentencing Mr. Weinberg to 13 months in prison, “what is even more troubling to the court is a communal attitude that seems to impose greater opprobrium on the victims than the perpetrator.”

Silenced by Fear

Intimidation is rarely documented, but just two weeks ago, a Hasidic woman from Kiryas Joel, N.Y., in Orange County, filed a startling statement in a criminal court, detailing the pressure she faced after telling the police that a Hasidic man had molested her son.

“I feel 100 percent threatened and very scared,” she said in her statement. “I feel intimidated and worried about what the consequences are going to be. But I have to protect my son and do what is right.”

Last year, her son, then 14, told the police that he had been offered $20 by a stranger to help move some boxes, but instead, the man brought him to a motel in Woodbury, removed the boy’s pants and masturbated him.

The police, aided by the motel’s security camera, identified the man as Joseph Gelbman, then 52, of Kiamesha Lake, a cook who worked at a boys’ school run by the Vizhnitz Hasidic sect. He was arrested, and the intimidation ensued. Rabbi Israel Hager, a powerful Vizhnitz rabbi in Monsey, N.Y., began calling the mother, asking her to cease her cooperation with the criminal case and, instead, to bring the matter to a rabbinical court under his jurisdiction, according to the mother’s statement to the court. Rabbi Hager did not return repeated calls seeking comment.

“I said: ‘Why? He might do this again to other children,’ ” the mother said in the statement. The mother, who asked that The New York Times not use her name to avoid identifying her son, told the police that the rabbi asked, “What will you gain from this if he goes to jail?” and said that, in a later call, he offered her $20,000 to pay for therapy for her son if the charges were dropped.

On April 24, three days before the case was set for trial, the boy was expelled from his school. When the mother protested, she said, the principal threatened to report her for child abuse.

Prosecutors, against the wishes of the boy’s parents, settled the case on April 27. Mr. Gelbman was given three years’ probation after pleading guilty to endangering the welfare of a child.

Mr. Jungreis, the Williamsburg father, had a similar experience. He first suspected that his son was being molested after he came home with blood in his underwear at age 12, and later was caught touching another child on the bus. But, Mr. Jungreis said, the school principal warned him to stay silent. Two years later, the boy revealed that he had been molested for years by a man he saw at a mikvah, a ritual bath that observant Jews visit for purification.

Mr. Jungreis, knowing the prohibition on calling secular authorities, asked several rabbis to help him report the abuse, but, he said, they told him they did not want to get involved. Ultimately, he found a rabbi who told him to take his son to a psychologist, who would be obligated to notify law enforcement. “That way you are not the moser,” he said the rabbi told him, using the Hebrew word for informer. The police arrested Meir Dascalowitz, then 27, who is now awaiting trial.

Prosecution of intimidation is rare. Victims and their supporters say that is because rabbinical authorities are politically powerful; prosecutors say it is because there is rarely enough evidence to build a criminal case. “The intimidation often works, at least in the short run,” said Laura Pierro, the head of the special victims unit at the Ocean County prosecutor’s office in New Jersey.

In 2010, Ms. Pierro’s agency indicted Shaul Luban for witness tampering: he had sent a threatening text message to multiple recipients, urging the Orthodox Jewish community of Lakewood, N.J., to pressure the family of an 11-year-old abuse victim not to cooperate with prosecutors. In exchange for having his record cleared, Mr. Luban agreed to spend about a year in a program for first-time offenders.

Mr. Luban and others “wanted the phone to ring off the hook to withdraw the complaint from our office,” the Ocean County prosecutor, Marlene Lynch Ford, said.

Threats to Advocates

The small cadre of ultra-Orthodox Jews who have tried to call attention to the community’s lack of support for sexual abuse victims have often been targeted with the same forms of intimidation as the victims themselves.

Rabbi Nuchem Rosenberg of Williamsburg, for example, has been shunned by communal authorities because he maintains a telephone number that features his impassioned lectures in Yiddish, Hebrew and English imploring victims to call 911 and accusing rabbis of silencing cases. He also shows up at court hearings and provides victims’ families with advice. His call-in line gets nearly 3,000 listeners a day.

In 2008, fliers were posted around Williamsburg denouncing him. One depicted a coiled snake, with Mr. Rosenberg’s face superimposed on its head. “Nuchem Snake Rosenberg: Leave Tainted One!” it said in Hebrew. The local Satmar Hasidic authorities banned him from their synagogues, and a wider group of 32 prominent ultra-Orthodox rabbis and religious judges signed an order, published in a community newspaper, formally ostracizing him.

“The public must beware, and stay away from him, and push him out of our camp, not speak to him, and even more, not to honor him or support him, and not allow him to set foot in any synagogue until he returns from his evil ways,” the order said in Hebrew.

“They had small children coming to my house and spitting on me and on my children and wife,” Rabbi Rosenberg, 61, said in an interview.

Rabbi Tzvi Gluck, 31, of Queens, the son of a prominent rabbi and an informal liaison to secular law enforcement, began helping victims after he met troubled teenagers at Our Place, a help center in Brooklyn, and realized that sexual abuse was often the root of their problems. It was when he began helping the teenagers report cases to the police that he also received threats.

In February, for example, he received a call asking him to urge an abuse victim to abandon a case. “A guy called me up and said: ‘Listen, I want you to know that people on the street are talking about what they can do to hurt you financially. And maybe speak to your children’s schools, to get your kids thrown out of school.’ ”

Rabbi Gluck said he had helped at least a dozen ultra-Orthodox abuse victims bring cases to the Brooklyn district attorney in recent years, and each time, he said, the victim came under heavy pressure to back down. In a case late last year that did not get to the police, a 30-year-old molested a 14-year-old boy in a Jewish ritual bath in Brooklyn, and a rabbi “made the boy apologize to the molester for seducing him,” he said.

“If a guy in our community gets diagnosed with cancer, the whole community will come running to help them,” he said. “But if someone comes out and says they were a victim of abuse, as a whole, the community looks at them and says, ‘Go jump in a lake.’ ”

Traces of Change

Awareness of child sexual abuse is increasing in the ultra-Orthodox community. Since 2008, hundreds of adult abuse survivors have told their stories, mostly anonymously, on blogs and radio call-in shows, and to victims’ advocates. Rabbi-vetted books like “Let’s Stay Safe,” aimed at teaching children what to do if they are inappropriately touched, are selling well.

The response by communal authorities, however, has been uneven.

In March, for example, Satmar Hasidic authorities in Williamsburg took what advocates said was an unprecedented step: They posted a Yiddish sign in synagogues warning adults and children to stay away from a community member who they said was molesting young men. But the sign did not urge victims to call the police: “With great pain we must, according to the request of the brilliant rabbis (may they live long and good lives), inform you that the young man,” who was named, “is, unfortunately, an injurious person and he is a great danger to our community.”

In Crown Heights, where the Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic movement has its headquarters, there has been more significant change. In July 2011, a religious court declared that the traditional prohibition against mesirah did not apply in cases with evidence of abuse. “One is forbidden to remain silent in such situations,” said the ruling, signed by two of the court’s three judges.

Since then, five molesting cases have been brought from the neighborhood — “as many sexual abuse-related arrests and reports as there had been in the past 20 years,” said Eliyahu Federman, a lawyer who helps victims in Crown Heights, citing public information.

Mordechai Feinstein, 19, helped prompt the ruling by telling the Crown Heights religious court that he had been touched inappropriately at age 15 by Rabbi Moshe F. Keller, a Lubavitcher who ran a foundation for at-risk youth and whom Mr. Feinstein had considered his spiritual mentor.

Last week, Rabbi Keller was sentenced in Criminal Court to three years’ probation for endangering the welfare of a child. And Mr. Feinstein, who is no longer religious, is starting a campaign to encourage more abuse victims to come forward. He is working with two prominent civil rights attorneys, Norman Siegel and Herbert Teitelbaum, who are asking lawyers to provide free assistance to abuse victims frustrated by their dealings with prosecutors.

“The community is a garden; there are a lot of beautiful things about it,” Mr. Feinstein said. “We just have to help them weed out the garden and take out the things that don’t belong there.”

Click to expand...

This is just disgusting. I'm already really disgusted that another person knowingly protects another that is doing wrong that is very harmful to another individual.

"And, he said, the mother of a child in a wheelchair confronted Mr. Jungreis’s mother-in-law, saying the same man had molested her son, and she “did not report this crime, so why did your son-in-law have to?"
Click to expand...

^ this. This is all kinds of fucked up beyond all acceptability. I know that the orthodox and the ultra-orthodox protect their own, and in doing so go to such extremes like these exampled in this article. One's own mother knows that her child is in harms way yet does nothing? And then if she does something, is ostracized to the point of having to leave or move out of the community?

We hear about the Catholic church and their molestation case, what about others? Muslims do it, the Dancing Boys of Afghanistan on Frontline examined this. Hindus aren't exempt either.

So if there is a wide prevalence of this worldwide, why is it driven by instilling fear within others instead of making sure that others are fearful of acting upon such thoughts or desires?

Ayashe · May 10, 2012

Whenever I hear of stories such as this I have to stop myself and remind myself that these are acts not of a religion but of an organization. No one wants a stain on their society, particularly if they are trying to protect and preserve it. Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning anything here. My point is merely that these aren't religious acts.

It is unfortunate that rather than protecting themselves from some bad publicity when the news of molestation occurs they are merely making it worse when the truth is revealed. You would think after seeing the results of these situations they would learn to realize that when the news does break it is further fuel to the fire that their cultural organization supports it.

cynthetiq · May 10, 2012

An excellent point Ayashe. It is an organizational act and not a religious one, but religious organizations/communities have tended to protect those that are the offenders.

Zweiblumen · May 14, 2012

To expand on @Ayashe's point. It's not limited to religions but everywhere adults, with some form of authority, are alone with children there is a risk. In religious surroundings like the article is about it's harder for children or anybody to question the actions of figure of authority than elsewhere. Still there are reports of child abuse in other surroundings, like sports, hospitals and institutions to name some. So all accusations should be taken seriously and handled with caution.

Baraka_Guru · May 14, 2012

Zweiblumen said: ↑

Still there are reports of child abuse in other surroundings, like sports, hospitals and institutions to name some. So all accusations should be taken seriously and handled with caution.
Click to expand...

There are reports suggesting that the rate of sexual abuse in schools is higher than in religious institutions.

It really comes down to how each group handles the situation, rather than what types of groups are culpable. The unfortunate reality seems to be that adults of any group will sexually abuse children, especially when in positions of power/authority.

Levite · May 14, 2012

It's true. This kind of problem is epidemic in the Haredi (ultra-Orthodox) world. It's one of many, many reasons I loathe Haredi practices as perversions of what Judaism is supposed to be. The idea that there is any justification for protecting victimizers of children is so deeply antithetical to what Jewish Law is supposed to be doing...if anything could sicken me more than abusing kids, it's this.

cynthetiq · May 15, 2012

Hasidic Child Molester Talking Points | Heeb

Hasidic Child Molester Talking Pointsby ARYE DWORKEN on May 15, 2012 • 9:28 amNo Comments

Toward the end of last week, the New York Times published an expose on the Ultra-Orthodox community for ignoring a child molestation problem and for, in some instances, actually shunning and ostracizing the victims instead of seeking justice for them. How is this happening? Well, the Hasidic community reasons that by delivering the suspected pedophile over to the police for investigation, you are therefore transgressing Jewish law as amoser, or an informer. A moser cannot turn his fellow Jew in to a secular non-Jewish authority as derived by Maimonides’ extrapolation ofha’poresh mi’darchei tzibbur, or one who actively separates himself from the rest of the community. While I doubt that our great sage Rambam meant to protect the the lowest of the low, some Hasidic communities are nevertheless manipulating the learnings of our elders and in turn, sheltering these deviant monsters.

While I’m not entirely surprised that this sickening predatory activity is plaguing some shtetls (after all, there was even a Law & Order episode about it), I am saddened and shocked by the various reactions. And I don’t mean the delusional justifications and rationalizations of the Hasidic community leaders–I mean, the Jews living outside of the Williamsburgs and the Borough Parks. Based on the conversations I have had over the weekend since these necessary articles appeared, I would like to suggest some potential responses to our collective propensity to sweep shamefulness under the rug.

1. “The New York Times likes to pick on the Jews.”
This is a complaint I hear whenever the Times covers Israel, Jews, Israeli Jews, the banks, and/or brisket. And in truth, it may have some validity to it. The New York Times known for its liberal slant can oft portray Israel as oppressor, even when it’s not warranted. But that’s neither here nor there, and it’s also something you and I can never prove. Yet when I discussed the two aforementioned articles on the Hasidic community written by Ray Rivera and Sharon Otterman with someone I knew well, he said something along the lines of, “Well, of course, when it comes to the Jews it’s a big story. But what about the Church? Why don’t they talk about abuse in the Church?”

If you do a search for the words “abuse” and “church” on the nytimes.com, you will find 431,000 results. If you were to however limit it down from the last 150 years to the last seven days, you will still get 19 results. Deflecting the attention from ourselves to another fundamentally flawed and troubled religious system will by no means make our problems go away. Child abuse is a problem regardless of the house of worship, and kudos to the New York Times for bringing this to light even if, according to many, the daily paper still may hate Israel.

2. “It’s not worth ruining someone’s reputation especially if the accusations aren’t true.”
First and foremost, shame on Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, the executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America, for having a response similar to this. And this is coming from a media outlet that once photographed Roseanne dressed as Hitler. Zwiebel, along with his extremely influential and powerful Orthodox organization, determined last year that Orthodox Jews should not report allegations to the police unless a Rabbi has given permission to do so. He also said that “you can destroy a person’s life with a false report.” Incidentally, you can also destroy a person’s life by putting your hand down his pants without permission. Zwiebel also added that “you speak it over with a rabbi before coming to any definitive conclusion in your own mind,” which implies that after an incident, it is important that you first consult with a rabbi so he may convince you that it was not molesting, but just tickling.

3. “I understand the secrecy. After all, if could ruin the shidduch (impending marriage proposals).”
It’s hard to believe but this was actually said to me, but it was. And it wasn’t said in an effort to implicitly justify the cover-up attempts–the person who had this reaction was simply channeling the Hasidic community’s emphasis on yichut, or legacy. If, hypothetically, someone’s brother or sister had been accused of being a child molester, this would affect the siblings’ chances of getting married. It’s sadly accurate in a community that weighs worthiness on, for example, what kind of China they set the Shabbos table with.

I think in an ideal world everyone would agree that one should not be held responsible for his or her family member’s actions. However, that is very much the case in the Ultra-Orthodox world. Families have and always will go to extreme measures in maintaining an uncontaminated facade like hiding their televisions in cabinets, keeping diseases or sicknesses obsessively secret, and in some cases, even protecting the identity of a pedophile. Maybe, though, once it would be known that someone’s brother was forcibly abusing children and as a result, his sister went years without a suitor, the community would only then react with less tolerance.

What I’m suggesting here is that if there had an old maid problem in Williamsburg, the rabbis would then maybe speak out against child molesting.

4. “We should be able to handle this within our own community. No need to get the police involved.”
In March, the Times notes, Satmar Hasidic authorities in Williamsburg posted a Yiddish posters in synagogues warning adults and children to stay away from a community member who they said was molesting boys. But the sign didn’t recommend calling the police: “With great pain we must, according to the request of the brilliant rabbis (may they live long and good lives), inform you that the young man,” who was named, “is, unfortunately, an injurious person and he is a great danger to our community.” This is a step in the right direction, but sadly, it is not very effective.

I know of one definitive example in which a serial child molester–I’m speaking of at least two-dozen individual accusations–left the country, rebuilt his life in Israel, and currently works with children. You would think for this not to be the case, considering the small Jewish geography we occupy, but it’s incredibly easy for a violator to re-root his life in another Jewish community and pick up exactly where they left off with a trail of unvindicated victims in his wake.

5. “It’s not as bad as “they” make it out to be.”
When it comes to harming young children, there should be a zero tolerance policy. I don’t care if it only happened once or twice. However, according to journalists Sharon Otterman and Ray Riveria “in recent months, a new program called Kol Tzedek, the Voice of Justice, has contributed to an effective crackdown on child sexual abuse among ultra-Orthodox Jews, saying it had led to 95 arrests involving more than 120 victims.” 95 arrests. 120 victims. Williamsburg, we have a problem.

6. “The rabbis understand things we cannot so we must accept it.”
The overwhelming response to the reposting of the Times articles on the comprehensive Orthodox Jewish blog Vo Is Neius is that the notion of moser should never apply in regards to abuse especially when considering “dina d’malchusoh dina,” that we are obligated to follow the laws of the land we occupy. These commenters and readers are for the most part observent G-d fearing people, yet allowing the police to intervene seems obvious to them. This shouldn’t be seen as a contradiction.

If, in eventuality, the rabbis’ devotees, the frequent shul goers, and the check-writing participants speak out and demand a zero tolerance policy, maybe the molesting business wouldn’t be so good. But by the communal passivity, rabbis remaining silent, and the continued blind eye, they are ostensibly supporting the continuation of it. And it may come to a point when the crying of our children gets too difficult to ignore even as the words of some rabbis try to drown them out.
Click to expand...

This was an interesting thing someone posted elsewhere. I think it works not just for the Jewish community but for any organization.

rogue49 · May 16, 2012

The evil done for "not rocking the boat"...

Lish · May 16, 2012

i cant say that this isnt also the case in the muslim community. the fact that ive never heard of a case makes me believe that there must be some code of silence , at least in my community.

The whole notion that any group should manage any damaging issue from within isnt a new one. I myself have been involved with fervant muslims who firmly believed it was sinful to hand another 'brother' over to authorities for breaking the law. Their reason? that anything other than shariah was going to be used to lay down the law! in that case, i truly believe that those that believe that shouldnt even be in this country.

Then, there's the case of turning in a fellow muslim brother who you know is involved in terrorist activities. Authorities have had a lot of trouble getting information from muslim communities when it came to reporting terrorist activities. Apart from being shunned by your family and community, you're likely to face violence for 'snitching' on a brother, which would probably also make your family fair game.

although many of these issues are religion related, by no means are they only applicable to religious communities. Non religious communities would face similar issues with codes of silence. There's been numerous reports of rugby league players being involved in sexual assaults, where the league has kept quiet in order not to have it leaked out to the media. It seems crazy, but saving face is more important than upholding justice.

cynthetiq · May 16, 2012

Fundraiser For Accused Child Molester Divides Brooklyn Community « CBS New York

Fundraiser For Accused Child Molester Divides Brooklyn Community
Posters have been posted in Williamsburg, rallying support for a Brooklyn therapist charged with sexually abusing a 12-year-old girl. CBS 2's Sean Hennessey reports.
Click to expand...

Interesting to see. I think that the individual deserves a day in court and if found innocent, the individuals making the claims be held responsible.

Remixer · May 16, 2012

As Lish said, the parallels between the Ultra-orthodox Jews and Muslims in this regard is staggering. For Muslims I have found the biggest reasoning is Excuse #3: ruining the person for marriage.

This is especially bad for girls, as they get shunned in a manner that leaves you speechless. Forgetting about the marriage aspect entirely, the affected girls are very often treated worse than the child molester. With boys, they live a life of shame and many of them end up severely depressed.

However, I see no argument in the religious aspect. It's people that pervert the rules, and it's people that commit these disgusting things. It's a long tradition now to hide behind the religious veil when committing crimes... just look at extremist religious terrorists.

chinese crested · May 18, 2012

He is what my Jewess friend would call a bad Jew. She told me about shunning, about how the community takes care of each other. She would be wanting to have at him with a pair of pinking sheers whilst wearing stout rubber gloves. I would be happy to pass her the gloves.
People who do these horrible things to children - they do not 'get better'. Those who cover for them, those who intimidate witnesses - they might just as well be holding down the next child for the sicko.
Hasidics are a bunch of wierdoes. They wanted death to the lovely Dana International. Guess that means its wrong for a boy to want to grow up to be a girl, but its okay for him to be buggered by an adult whilst supposedly safe in their company.

AlabamaMan1968 · May 18, 2012

Sexual abuse in my opinion is not on the rise from years before, but just becoming reported more. Years ago people kept things like this in private , or the family itself took care of matters, or the child kept silent for fear of what the molester told them would happen if they spoke up. The thought that any one particular religion, group, or organization has it more prevalent is crazy, as most people so far have mentioned. It is everywhere, and it is not just men. Women do this as well. Personally I think it is just as bad, however society in general has shown more of an acceptance for women molesting boys as more a "right of passage" than harmful.
The fact that someone, or a group, would protect a molester is not the right thing to do, but is done more often than not. It is a shame that these victims don't know the true power they hold over themselves to speak up about what is being done to them. I certainly wish that I had known when I was a child that it was ok to say something.

Remixer · May 18, 2012

AlabamaMan1968

Dude, your avatar is hypnotizing me.

chinese crested · May 18, 2012

' however society in general has shown more of an acceptance for women molesting boys as more a "right of passage" than harmful. ' - AlabamaMan1968
We had one - due out soon - done for sending her boyfriend pics of her blowing an 18 month old boy - she was a nursery worker. Its scarey how many work their way into such positions of trust.

p://www.thetfp.com/threads/its-not-just-the-catholics-that-protect-the-child-molesters.3760/#ixzz1vFaiYVMm

cynthetiq · Jun 21, 2012

This just makes my blood boil even more than it already does.

June 21, 2012

4 Ultra-Orthodox Men Charged With Trying to Silence Accuser in Abuse Case
By SHARON OTTERMAN

The Brooklyn district attorney, facing an avalanche of complaints about his handling of sexual abuse allegations in the ultra-Orthodox community, on Thursday charged four men with attempting to silence an accuser by offering her and her boyfriend a $500,000 bribe, and threatening her boyfriend’s business.

The district attorney, Charles J. Hynes, alleged that the men were part of an effort by the community to protect a prominent member of the Satmar Hasidic community, Nechemya Weberman, who has been accused of 88 counts of sexual misconduct, including oral sex with a child younger than 13 years old. The charges all involve a single victim, a young woman who was referred by her school to get counseling by Mr. Weberman, and then alleges she was abused by him during therapy sessions.

The intimidation charges mark the first time in at least two decades that Mr. Hynes has charged Hasidic Jews with intimidating a sexual-abuse victim, even though victims, their advocates, prosecutors say intimidation has become a major obstacle to prosecution of abuse cases in the ultra-Orthodox community. In recent weeks, Mr. Hynes has been saying that the intimidation of witnesses in the ultra-Orthodox community is worse than in the world of organized crime.

The four men arrested, Jacob, Joseph and Hertzka Berger, who are brothers, and Abraham Rubin, all of Williamsburg, pleaded not guilty on Thursday in a Brooklyn courtroom packed with benches full of their supporters, dressed in the dark clothing worn by Hasidic men. Mr. Rubin, 48, was charged with bribery, witness tampering, and coercion; the Berger brothers were all charged with coercion.
Click to expand...

chipperaroo · Jun 22, 2012

I'm not one to play games with stupid people. I understand it's "culture" and not "stupidity" per se...
That part of the bible that says that the laws of man are an extension of the laws of god... it's old testament, as in torrah, and there are similar passages in the koran, from what I understand.

Point being, any asshole tried to squat on me for doing the right thing by current societal standards...
I'd throw that right back at him or her...
"What's this say right here, please red it aloud to me... " (theological quotation)
"Okay, and what's this say right here... please read it aloud to me... " (legal quotation)
Now, justify your standpoint to me...
So, you want me to 1.) violate my own [family, blood], and 2.) violate the law, and 3.) put up with you looking at me / my family irrespective, all the while letting someone do this to other families.

Have fun [mayhem would ensue as I found any and every way to mess w/ that person's life in return].

I'm an asshole like that at times. Maybe just reflective of my mood in the moment, or maybe just reflective of the fact I have zero tolerance for child molesters or people who protect / defend / justify the actions of them.

Log in or Sign up

It's not just the Catholics that protect the child molesters

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

Ayashe Getting Tilted

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

Zweiblumen Slightly Tilted

Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

Levite Levitical Yet Funky

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

Lish Very Tilted

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

chinese crested Slightly Tilted

AlabamaMan1968 Vertical

Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

chinese crested Slightly Tilted

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

chipperaroo Vertical

Log in or Sign up

It's not just the Catholics that protect the child molesters

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

Ayashe Getting Tilted

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

Zweiblumen Slightly Tilted

Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

Levite Levitical Yet Funky

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

Lish Very Tilted

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

chinese crested Slightly Tilted

AlabamaMan1968 Vertical

Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

chinese crested Slightly Tilted

cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

chipperaroo Vertical

Useful Searches