Is porn ruining our love lives?

Eddie · Oct 26, 2011

Interesting article about how there are certain assumptions and expectations during sex that never existed until there was widespread access to hardcore porn.

http://blog.ted.com/2009/12/02/cindy_gallop_ma/

CinnamonGirl · Oct 26, 2011

Without reading the article, I'm going to say NO. Pop songs and romantic comedies are ruining our love lives.

I'll go read the article now

Edit: watch the video, rather. C'mon, get buffering!

Eddie · Oct 26, 2011

CinnamonGirl said: ↑

Edit: watch the video, rather. C'mon, get buffering!
Click to expand...

You got dial-up?

CinnamonGirl · Oct 26, 2011

lol...no, just a dying router (plus, I got distracted while it was buffering.)

Anyway, she makes some good points, and I did check out the website. A lot of it seems like common sense, and it's weird to think other people can't see that.

I dated a guy, though, who had been watching porn since he was 8 or 9 (he was 21 when we first got together, 4 years younger than me.) We never really talked about it much, but some of his perceptions were a bit....off. I wish I could think of a specific example, but I'm totally blanking right now.

Eddie · Oct 26, 2011

Well, the lady in the article's point was that young men are receiving their sex education by watching hardcore porn and therefore have a skewed idea of what is acceptable during sex. She used a face shot as an example. But I'm not sure I agree with her.

I sort of look at it like, there are things that men like; blowjobs, handjobs, etc that aren't necessarily enjoyable for the woman...but she does them to please her partner. Just as there are things that women like that aren't the most enjoyable for men, but we do them. The whole give and take thing. I think giving a woman a money shot is something that men like to do, even though it's still fairly taboo, but women do it to please their partner. Maybe I'm way off here.

Cypher · Oct 26, 2011

I don't think she should speak about being a young man until she experiences it for herself.

Eddie · Oct 27, 2011

Cypher said: ↑

I don't think she should speak about being a young man until she experiences it for herself.
Click to expand...

Do disagree with her assertions? Did you check out her website?

martian · Oct 27, 2011

I think you're missing the point a bit. The issue isn't porn as such; it's that young people are turning to pornography in absence of other educational sources to learn about sex, and are developing all sorts of unhealthy beliefs as a result.

So the problem (and ergo the solution) is not porn. It's (lack of) proper education.

mixedmedia · Oct 27, 2011

/end thread

Poetry · Oct 27, 2011

Martian said: ↑

I think you're missing the point a bit. The issue isn't porn as such; it's that young people are turning to pornography in absence of other educational sources to learn about sex, and are developing all sorts of unhealthy beliefs as a result.

So the problem (and ergo the solution) is not porn. It's (lack of) proper education.
Click to expand...

Where do I send the two dozen roses?

Plan9 · Oct 27, 2011

...

Plan9 · Oct 27, 2011

Okay, now for an actual post:

A lot of pats on the back and yet I'm still not getting a warm 'n fuzzy here.

I must have totally missed the How To Fuck Properly memo when I was 15.

Martian said: ↑

It's (lack of) proper education.
Click to expand...

Okay, that's great... but... what's a proper education on how to do the nasty? National Geographic segments on African tribal culture? Those low grade smutty History channel shows about the history of human sexuality? Peering through the slats in the closet to watch your older sister get pommeled by that studly high school quarterback with the monosyllabic name? Biff. Jake. Something. Where's the Legit Bible of Carnal Knowledge?

Didn't Foreigner do a song on this exact topic? "I want to know what [sex] is... I want you to show me."

Turns out porn is the overwhelming education medium because Discovery Kids doesn't have an instructional series on how to have wholesome sex. The actual katas... how the sexin' gets done... is still a taboo topic in many circles. My father's advice? "I know you're going to do it. Be safe. Use a condom. Know that it causes a lot of emotional drama." But nobody ever said how... like there were rules and regulations to follow or something. Granted, my father didn't know she was showing up on the weekend in Victoria's Secret lingerie and I was railing her in the ass in his basement.

What's "right" sex? What's "normal" sex? I have to say that my sex life kinda mirrors the things seen in hardcore pornography. I must be a freak.

To suggest that porn isn't a good education is to suggest that there is a mainstream alternative. So what is that? Sex Ed in high school? HAW HAW.

I received a primer on the female anatomy and how to get to know someone (Bible-style) from Ye Olde Hardcore Pornography (TM). I saw ridiculous-looking people doing things that disgusted me and I saw ridiculous looking people doing things that appealed to me. I tried those things that appealed to me with various girlfriends (most had minimal exposure to pornography) and everything worked out okay. I think the problem with all these clever "wrong education" responses is that nobody says what a "right education" is, where to get it and who is supposed to dispense it.

So somebody share that with me? I'm not a genius. I want to learn.

Because apparently I've been doing it wrong my whole life.

Fremen · Oct 27, 2011

Plan9 said: ↑

To suggest that porn isn't a good education is to suggest that there is a mainstream alternative. So what is that? Sex Ed in high school? HAW HAW.
Click to expand...

I read that as "Hee Haw", and I thought, "Yes, I did learn quite a bit about sex from Hee Haw as a kid."

Baraka_Guru · Oct 27, 2011

The issue is broader than simple changing of expectations of sexual interaction.

Not to drop a bomb on the thread or anything, but I think porn can ruin relationships on a level beyond simple "why won't you take it on the face?"

(Article has links on source page; shortened for length)

Porn-Induced Sexual Dysfunction Is a Growing Problem
Internet porn appears to be "sex-negative" for many users.
Psychology Today
Blogs
Published on July 11, 2011 by Marnia Robinson in Cupid's Poisoned Arrow

A growing number of young, healthy Internet pornography users are complaining of delayed ejaculation, inability to be turned on by real partners, and sluggish erections.

[...]

Threads relating to this issue are springing up all over the Web on bodybuilding, medical help, and pick-up artist forums, in at least twenty countries. Notice from one such forum: "Due to the overwhelming emails and requests we have received concerning pornography addiction and erectile dysfunction, we decided to create an entirely different thread. ED due to porn is becoming rapidly common, especially for young men."

Desperate young men from various cultures, with different levels of education, religiosity, attitudes, values, diets, marijuana use, and personalities are seeking help. They have only two things in common: heavy use of today's Internet porn and increasing need for more extreme material.

Many have previously been to doctors, undergone various tests, and been declared "just fine" physically. Neither they nor their health care providers considered excessive porn use as a potential cause of their continued performance problems. Most were assured that "masturbation cannot cause erectile dysfunction." (Probably true, but unfortunately Internet porn use can.) The final diagnosis was generally "performance anxiety." Desperate, many also looked online. See this 900-post thread and this 300-post one.

Is anxiety really the cause? Here's a simple test: Try to masturbate (alone) using no porn and no fantasy—only sensual touch. Use the same speed and pressure as you would during intercourse. How erect is your penis without porn? If your penis is not fully erect, or it takes effort to become erect, then the chances are that anxiety is not the source of your problems. Persistent performance problems can certainly lead to anxiety, however. As one man said after he recovered following three months without masturbation or porn, "It's hard to tell where addiction ends and anxiety begins. I think a combination of the two is involved in a lot of situations."

Not long ago, Italian urologists confirmed an erectile dysfunction-porn use connection via a large survey. When interviewed about the survey, urologist Carlo Foresta (head of the Italian Society of Andrology and Sexual Medicine and professor at the University of Padua) mentioned that 70 percent of the young men his clinic treated for sexual performance problems had been using Internet pornography heavily.

For them, recovery appears to take 6-12 weeks, and rests primarily on one factor: avoiding the extreme stimulation of Internet erotica. (Many also avoid masturbation for a time, either because at first they cannot masturbate without porn fantasy, or because climax triggers binging.)

Among those who recover, progression is surprisingly similar. Men typically report that after a few days of intense sexual cravings, their libido plummets and their penis seems "lifeless," "shrunken," or "cold." These "flatline" symptoms typically continue for up to six weeks on average, dependent upon age and intensity of porn use.

Gradually, morning erections return, followed by libido and, perhaps, occasional spontaneous erections. Finally, there is complete recovery of erectile health, sexual desire for real partners, sex becomes extremely pleasurable, and condom use is no longer problematic.

[...]

How can porn cause sexual performance trouble?

The cause appears to be physiological, not psychological, given that such diverse men change only one variable (porn use), yet report a similar recovery pattern. For these men, anxiety is secondary.

Recent behavioral addiction research suggests that the loss of libido and performance occur because heavy users are numbing their brain's normal response to pleasure. Years of overriding the natural limits of libido with intense stimulation desensitize the user's response to a neurochemical called dopamine.

Dopamine is behind motivation, "wanting" and all addictions. It drives the search for rewards. We get little spurts of it every time we bump into anything potentially rewarding, novel, surprising, or even anxiety-producing.

Animal models have established that both sexual desire and erections arise from dopamine signals. Normally, dopamine-producing nerve cells in the reward circuitry activate the sexual (libido) centers of the hypothalamus, which in turn activate the erection centers in the spinal cord, which send nerve impulses to the genitalia. A steady stream of nerve impulses, which release nitric oxide into the penis and its blood vessels, maintain an erection.

Nitric oxide in turn stimulates the blood vessel dilator cGMP, the on/off switch for engorgement and erection. The more cGMP is available the more durable the erection. So, the pathway from the brain to an erection is:

Reward circuitry (dopamine) > hypothalamus > spinal cord > nerves > penis

Erections start with dopamine and end with cGMP. Sexual enhancement drugs work by inhibiting the breakdown of cGMP, thus allowing it to accumulate in the penis. Yet if the patient's brain isn't producing enough signals in the first place, ED drugs will not increase libido or pleasure even if they (sometimes) produce an erection.

"My ED is definitely porn-related because even erection pills do little but sometimes help enough to penetrate or get an erection. But, NEVER is the feeling good...because I still don't feel anything. I've lost most, if not all my sensitivity."

In the case of age-related erectile dysfunction, cardiovascular conditions or diabetes, the primary weak link tends to be the nerves, blood vessels, and penis. However, for men with porn-induced erectile dysfunction, the weak link is not the penis, but rather the desensitized dopamine system in the brain.

The relevance of recent addiction brain science

In the last decade or so, addiction researchers have discovered that too much dopamine stimulation has a paradoxical effect. The brain decreases its ability to respond to dopamine signals (desensitization). This occurs with all addictions, both chemical and natural. In some porn users, the response to dopamine is dropping so low that they can't achieve an erection without constant hits of dopamine via the Internet.

Erotic words, pictures, and videos have been around a long while, but the Internet makes possible a never-ending stream of dopamine spikes. Today's users can force its release by watching porn in multiple windows, searching endlessly, fast-forwarding to the bits they find hottest, switching to live sex chat, viewing constant novelty, firing up their mirror neurons with video action and cam-2-cam, or escalating to extreme genres and anxiety-producing material. It's all free, easy to access, available within seconds, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Overstimulation of the reward circuitry in the brain is a very real possibility today.

Many men don't realize their brain's sensitivity is declining toward normal sex because Internet erotica delivers endless dopamine hits—making erection and climax possible where normal encounters would not. When they try to have actual intercourse and cannot, they understandably panic.

The brain changes causing porn-induced erectile dysfunction arise from actual physical addiction processes (among them, numbing of the pleasure response of the brain). Quitting can therefore be quite challenging. In addition to an alarming temporary drop in libido, some men experience withdrawal symptoms: insomnia, irritability, panic, despair, concentration problems, and even flu-like symptoms. Finding a good counselor who understands addiction, and why today's porn has different effects from viewing a Playboy magazine, can be very helpful.

The brain needs a chance to "reboot," that is, return to normal dopamine sensitivity. This can take a couple of months. For a science teacher's explanation of the science behind porn-related erectile dysfunction, see this video presentation: Erectile Dysfunction and Porn.

Most men are astonished to learn that pornography use can be a source of sexual performance problems. Instead, many are becoming convinced that ED at twenty-something is normal. They are amazed that heavy porn use can affect them adversely, that no one told them it could affect them, and that humans have actually masturbated without porn. There is almost total ignorance about the significance for porn users of the recent discoveries of addiction science.

If you are suffering from youthful ED, and wish to restore your potency, be optimistic. As one man said after his successful two-month experiment:

A few facts:

1. This is 100% fixable.
2. It will likely be one of the most difficult things you've ever done.
3. If you ever want a normal sex life again, you kinda don't have another choice.
Click to expand...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...induced-sexual-dysfunction-is-growing-problem

So I think it's a bit early, but there is growing evidence that porn as it relates to a sex addiction can lead to problems in the bedroom. I think it deserves study to say the least.

Porn and how it's distributed and how much it is distributed (and consumed) has changed astoundingly in the past ten years alone---heck, five, even.

This isn't to say that porn is bad in and of itself. What I think can lead to problems is something about porn viewing habits run amok.

Cypher · Oct 27, 2011

In canada we learn everything about sex that we should know when we are young. I think thats the right way to do it.

Plan9 · Oct 27, 2011

For those that are all "TL;DR": Baraka just filled the page, Host-style, with the "all good things in moderation" argument.

martian · Oct 27, 2011

Plan9 said: ↑

To suggest that porn isn't a good education is to suggest that there is a mainstream alternative. So what is that? Sex Ed in high school? HAW HAW.
Click to expand...

Not quite. Suggesting that porn is not good sex education implies a need for a better alternative, but not the existence of one.

And, quite frankly, yes.

Look, you don't have to give kids an illustrated tour here; there's a lot of stuff that you can just leave them to figure out for themselves. But the problem is that in order for kids to be able to discern good sources of information from bad you need to give them some basic facts.

Sex is highly personal. And if your greatest sexual fantasy involves pounding a girl in the ass for 40 minutes before busting a nut on her face, and if you can find a girl who's happy to participate in this fantasy, I say bust away, good sir. I certainly wouldn't say my sex life has ever looked anything like a hardcore porno, but that's just me. And if you see stuff in porn and you think it looks fun and you and your partner want to try it, that's cool.

The problem is that many, even most kids aren't being educated when it comes to the basic facts on sex. Nobody is sitting down with them and explaining how to use a condom (or why they should), nobody's telling them that spit is not a good lubricant, nobody is telling them that it can take a woman as much as 20 minutes to get fully aroused, nobody's telling them about the risks of STI's or how truly, genuinely awful ass-to-mouth is. In short, nobody is explaining that porn is a fantasy on film.

I enjoy porn. I think it's neato. But let's just make sure we understand it for what it is, here. Nobody in porn ever smashes their skull into the headboard accidentally. Nobody in porn ever falls off the bed. Girls in porn never leave a big wet spot on the sheets. None of that stuff ever happens because it's fantasy, and as long as everyone understands that we'll be fine.

DamnitAll · Oct 27, 2011

Cypher said: ↑

In canada we learn everything about sex that we should know when we are young. I think thats the right way to do it.
Click to expand...

I knew there had to be another reason I like Canadians so much.

Plan9 · Oct 27, 2011

Martian,

Yeah, I wasn't implying that the alternative was in existence. Because it's obviously not. Sex education in the United States (in those states that even allow it) is a half-ass human biology class taught by awkward middle-aged women that focuses more on gametes and crappy cartoon fallopian tubes than on anything else. It certainly doesn't talk about what kids really need to know: how to roll on a condom properly and the location of the clitoris.

It's been my experience that parents don't really talk about sex other than the "use a condom" speech.

And nobody wholesome is really talkin' about how exactly to use those "Moves like Jagger."

You've got locker room conquest tales and Web pornography to guide you.

Being a teenager is confusing. It's amazing I figured out sex at all.

...

Cypher said: ↑

In canada we learn everything about sex that we should know when we are young. I think thats the right way to do it.
Click to expand...

What the fuck does that even mean?

...

Relevant:

Corporal Donde Picante said:

"I don't know about you guys but I'm starting to get desensitized. That's the problem. I just see boobs ALL THE TIME. On television, on billboards, in magazines, when I look through my neighbors window with my binoculars, on the ten hours of Internet porn I watch every night... There are just boobs all over the place. I'm afraid, because at this rate instead of seeing them as something that stimulates my Freudian primate monkey brain they're going to just become two skin sacks full of fat."
Click to expand...

Baraka_Guru · Oct 27, 2011

Plan9 said: ↑

Martian,

Yeah, I wasn't implying that the alternative was in existence. Because it's obviously not. Sex education in the United States (in those states that even allow it) is a half-ass human biology class taught by awkward middle-aged women that focuses more on gametes and crappy cartoon fallopian tubes than on anything else. It certainly doesn't talk about what kids really need to know: how to roll on a condom properly and the location of the clitoris.
Click to expand...

Maybe the powers that be feel that the U.S. economy needs all those unwanted teen pregnancies. I can't otherwise understand why they don't do anything about it, considering the U.S. has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the industrialized world.

I'm just kidding. I know why they don't do anything about it. It would make baby Jesus cry if kids knew about contraception.

What the fuck does that even mean?
Click to expand...

My guess is that this is a reference to the fact that sex ed in Canada puts sex ed in the U.S. to shame.

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