How Heavy is Heavy Handed?

Spin off from the spanking thread, I have always thought that the US laws were a bit too draconian but I agreed in the most part. I am against the incarcerations for minor infractions like operating a vehicle with a revoked driver’s license or something similarly stupid.

Also, counter-intuitive rules, who comes up with this shit?

Fees.
You get a speeding ticket for $240+, then you can't pay it on time, so they revoke your license, you need to pay the speeding ticket AND the DMV another $100 for a new driver’s license. I mean, how much does a driver’s license cost to print?

Bonds.
What’s up with $10,000? How are you supposed to call a bail bondsman from inside jail if they let you out for 5 minutes and the phone only works for 30 minutes out of the day? AND you can only make collect calls? WTF?

After bailing someone out I vow never to interact with law enforcement.

But let's get onto the point of the thread ...

I don't understand how a sane person responsible for killing 77 people, could get only 21 years in prison. Here I have to say America has got it right with either capital punishment or consecutive life terms.

Source

This man premeditated and executed a plan to kill a lot of people in a crowded area. He then proceeded to ENSURE that the people he was targeting were dead. How does Norway not have a death penalty for such people? The only good thing would be that the sentence can be extended indefinitely but still, that wouldn't make me feel any better if this was happening in my backyard.

He was smiling for fucks sake. Like he got his point across. Like the way I smile when I win an argument.

That, I believe is a stellar example of being underhanded. Rehabilitating this man is not in the best interests of anyone.

I believe that Norway could do more in a situation such as this.

What are your thoughts on Laws in the US as compared to Laws elsewhere?

 

This guy will die in prison. It will be "natural causes", but this is guaranteed. I'm not saying its a good or bad thing, but it will happen.

 

No, it isn't "3 months per person"

In EU law the max sentence is 30 years. In Norway its 21. A "life if life" sentence if not legal. People like Ian Brady or Brevik dont get out of prison, one way or the other other, they DO NOT ever get out.

Brevik will die in prison. I dont really have a problem with that in his specific case. I doubt anybody else does.

 

What the fuck are you guys talking about?

 

okay, at least in the state I enforce the laws, you don't go to jail for a revoked license, unless it's alcohol related (the revocation). As far as the fines, driving is a privilege, not a right. You lose your license, you can walk anywhere freely. But you won't get your license back until you pay restitution. Money is used because it is easy to enforce. And it hits people where it hurts, the wallet. They tend to pay attention then. And it's not $100 to print a driver's license, it's $100 dollars in penalties and fees. If you cannot afford that, you probably cannot afford auto insurance. Now if you are revoked, I might take your car away, and you can get it back from the tow yard. But not all the time. On Friday, I stopped a young man for a burnt out tailight. Turns out he had been canceled/denied for an unpaid ticket. I could have had his car towed, because he cannot drive and I can't let it sit on the side of the road creating a hazard. But I let him call a family member to pick up the car. A few days prior I stopped a 2007 dodge pickup that had plates from a 1973 dodge pickup. The truck was the son in law's, the plates were from her husband's truck. The real plates for the 2007 dodge expired in 10/10. So she hasn't paid the fees that pave our roads and keep things running. Plus she displayed fictitious plates. Either her husband or SIL switched the plates, but I took the truck. Because someone in the family commited an act of deceit. You don't deserve the truck, and you can pay to get it back. After you show the tow yard valid current registration.

 

I think this depends on what your view of the what justice system is. If you think it's primary purpose is retributive then captial punishment and life sentences make sense. If the purpose is reformative or at least you think reformative should be the goal, then sentence length are retribution are incidental. The important thing is whether or not the person is still a danger to others.

 

How is this in question?

 

Well, you indicated in the OP that 21 years was somehow insufficient for Mr. Brevik's crimes. I presume you also mean to say that in 21 years he will still be a danger to others. I don't mean to call into question your powers of prognostication, but I don't see why this is necessarily so.

 

Did you read the article in it's entirety? The man prepared for that very moment for months. Why does the default answer in TFP have to be "You're no expert, shut up!". Do I really have to be an expert to know that someone that blows up 77 people will do it again in 21 years?

 

Xerxes,

Newsflash: The TFP is largely a "liberal" groupthink. It's like the Borg... except everybody smokes pot and has a really indie vinyl collection.

 

I did read the article.

I cannot answer for the entire TFP and you would do well to note that I did not tell you to shut up, nor did I tell you that your opinions were unqualified.

What I did do was assert that I do not agree with your opinion that it's impossible for there to come a time when this man may actually no longer be a danger to others. And for that matter, I would like to add that I strongly disagree with the notion that there would be no benefit in rehabilitating him if it is possible.

 

A cop, glad we have one of you on the board!

I understand the alcohol related revocations, not only are you a danger to yourself but to others. The same can possibly be argued about exceeding speed limits, maybe not to the same severity, but non the less. I concede that fact.

What I don't understand is NC state's reluctance to be lenient with the exprbitant fees. OIt's like they know the fees are high but the pokerface I encountered upon the magistrates contenance when I was coughing up $1,000 to bail my roommate out simply read, "You mad bro?!".

"If you cannot afford that, you probably cannot afford auto insurance. " - What if you can BARELY afford either one, the fee or the insurance? It can't be so cut and dry.

The people who had switched out plates, that's stupid. I understand how taxes work. But why are the damned fees so many and so high? Registration (annually), vehicle tax (annually), Drivers license renewal, etc etc etc.

C'mon!

 

No, but if I trip over your bong one more time on the way to the 'frige at 3 AM, you're going to find your records on the lawn.

 

First off, I should really lay off the hyperbole.

Secondly, whether or not he is going to be a danger to society in the impending two decades comes down to speculation on my part ... but:

Now you see, I just don't understand it. How would rehabilitating a Charles Manson of sorts be of any benefit ever to society? Like, what exactly can we benefit from Mr Brievik & his ilk?

 

I would have thought this obvious but, because society is benefited by having more productive members and fewer unnecessary prisoners around.