1. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Driving Less in the United States

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by snowy, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    NPR had an interesting piece on declining driving rates in the United States the other day.
    Cars In America: Is The Love Story Over? : NPR
    Don't get me wrong; I love my car and I love driving it, but this news doesn't surprise me in the least. I'm fortunate enough to live in a fairly compact city with well-developed public transportation and bike lanes. For me, it is possible to not drive my car everywhere--this is why my husband and I only own one vehicle. I think attitudes towards driving started shifting when I was a teenager. I didn't get my license until 17. Shortly after I got my license, they introduced stricter laws regarding teenage driving here in Oregon, and many of my younger friends put off getting their licenses until they were 18 or older. Living in a suburb of Portland, it wasn't really necessary to have a car or a license, as public transportation was always a viable option, and many things were within walking distance.

    When did you get your license? Since gas prices have gone up, have you found yourself driving less? Is our love affair with cars really over?
     
  2. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    I was 17 when I first got my license, the school bus was an option until then but having the freedom of driving myself to school was quite nice as I recall.
    Never have experienced the public transit in Portland, living in Woodburn meant I was right in the middle between Salem and Portland on I-5 corridor but was driving to either point.
     
  3. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member


    Just to give you an idea of how much public transit in Oregon has grown: there's a bus now that runs from Woodburn to Salem, and from Salem, there's an express to the WES (Westside Express Service) in Wilsonville, which then ties into the MAX. Connecting transit systems here has been a priority of late: Welcome to nworegontransit.org Technically, it's possible to travel quite a bit around Oregon without a car! The website I linked doesn't show connections to Bend or other points that exist.
     
  4. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass

    Location:
    Colorado
    I learned to drive when I was 14 through older friends. I got my first car when I was 15 (to rebuild). I got my driver's license on my 16th birthday at 8am when the DMV opened.

    I consider cars and trucks to be an appliance. They get me and mine to where we need to go. Motorcycles are a different matter.
     
  5. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    Whoa, that stuff wasn't around in the early-mid 90's at all. I do not think that the MAX was even near Wilsonville for that matter. Of course I also remember when the 541 area code was first introduced and current high school kids were probably not even born when that happened.
     
  6. amonkie

    amonkie Very Tilted

    Location:
    Windy City
    I went 3+ years in Chicago without a car until last summer.

    Even now.. I could bike the 6 miles to the train station that I commute downtown to every day, but I prefer to spend quality time with my family.
     
  7. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    I got my permit 10 days after I turned 15 (the youngest age I was eligible was 15). My HS was so backed up on Driver's Ed that I would've been 17 if I waited for that. So my parents agreed that if I worked during the summer and saved up $150 they would chip in $150 more so I could take private driving lessons. So I did that. Like @Stanley (many of my details are relatable to his), I went to the DMV at 8am on my 16th birthday and got my license. Like him, I also had my own car at 15. My dad spent $250 buying a 12yr old car with a blown engine and we rebuilt it together and it was my first car. He helped me get it running, after that all the maintenance, gas, and insurance was mine to pay.

    Today I drive more than ever, mostly for work. The fact that I have a company issued SUV that is replaced about 2x/yr means I rarely have to give auto purchases much thought anymore. My wife puts less than 10k/yr on her car, so it tends to last a while.

    When I want to enjoy my road trips I take my Road Glide instead of a car.
     
  8. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member


    I think that's part of the issue we're seeing with dropping teenage driving rates--many schools no longer teach driver's ed, yet many states require that teens go through it to get a license. $300 can be a lot of money for families today.
     
  9. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    I got my license at age almost 17 (late 1970's).
    There was no public transportation in my small town, nor was there any to speak of in the big town I moved to at age 18. I rode my bike a lot there because at the time, gasoline in the US 48 first went over costing $1.00 per gallon and that was breaking people--plus I like(d) riding my bike (don't have one at the moment).

    I live in a big suburb now and the public trans is awful. Despite that, they are eliminating bus routes with the nearest bus stop (with very limited service) a half-mile away.
    The only time I've been into cars was when I had access to, or owned a convertible car with a stick-shift. I don't have that now so driving is not fun.

    As a family, we drive very little as we put a premium on living close to where we need to be. Most of the necessities--work, school, groceries, doctor, vet are within a 5-mile radius. Fun stuff including great cuisine, movies, live performances--theatre and music, any non-credit class you wish to take--all that stuff is within a 7-10 mile radius. The major airport is 20 minutes away. The big city is 25 minutes away. We walk or drive where we need to go. We have walking trails and forest preserves all around us. We are lucky but we (I) also long-ago planned this out.

    We deliberately bought the place in which we live because it is close to everything* (I watched for a 2-story condo unit to go up for sale here for 5 years) thus, even with our jaunts to Ontario and/or Maryland our annual mileage on the one car we own is less than 10,000 miles a year (sometimes far less) and has been for the last 15 years. *also the property taxes are low and the school system, which we have 'outgrown' is excellent.

    My spouse has a very short fuse being stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic. He internalizes it but it's still there. It's best for his all-round health to either cycle or walk to work, which he does more often than drive.

    I do find it annoying that much of my spouse's large extended family opted to live in remote, ugly exurbs because they could buy cheap, relatively large abodes. I'm most annoyed at having to drive 'way-out-there' because it eats up our time and gas. I just declined a 50-year-old birthday celebration because eff it, I'm sick of the driving and the lack of concern that it's our time that gets pissed away so you can live in a huge house (and geez, wouldn't it be nice to have a celebration at a centrally located venue?)

    The car culture isn't dead but it is changing. I think 'loving' your car is more of a niche thing. The rest of us just need to get from point A to point B.
     
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I was 35 when I got my full license. (It was a couple of years ago.)

    Driving was just never something that appealed to me. Public transit, walking, and biking always made more sense costwise. Sure, I've been lucky to live with people who drive, so longer distances or more convenience with a car were doable, but in terms of my day-to-day life, I've never "needed" a car.

    I've heard of this trend recently. It's not just America. I think it's more generational, where cost is one factor (fewer decent jobs, lower wages among young people), but also owning a car doesn't have the same cachet it used to. Young people are more environmentally minded than ever. You also get the hipster factor: Where cars are viewed as the epitome of consumer goods in a consumer society.

    I think a lot of young people (and old alike) take a kind of pride in getting by just fine without owning a car. Many urban areas are now designed such that cars don't make much sense unless you leave the area itself. Consider Jane Jacobs and her advocacy for dense mixed-use neighbourhoods like Greenwich Village.

    Outside such areas, I admit that cars are more or less essential, but to me, the idea of requiring a car to live boggles my mind. Like I said, I didn't get my driver's license until I was 35. I still don't own a car, never have, but I do have access to one if I want. In practice, I only travel in it as a passenger currently, and not really all that often.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Speed_Gibson

    Speed_Gibson Hacking the Gibson

    Location:
    Wolf 359
    my biggest complaint with my current vehicle is the automatic transmission. Don't care much about the cracked windscreen that needs to be replaced, the right turn light that is missing entirely now (but will replace soon rather than get a ticket), or the engine work it no doubt needs. It is missing a damn clutch.
    Most any vehicle I am considering buying will get an instant "no" if it is not a manual transmission.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member


    If I lived where you live, Baraka_Guru, I think I would really only need a car rarely. It's so walkable and transit access is good. Plus, the TTC is SO CLEAN. Seriously, the Rocket is the cleanest subway line I've ever been on.
     
  13. Fremen

    Fremen Allright, who stole my mustache?

    Location:
    E. Texas
    I don't have my license. I was in a few accidents as a kid, and the last one was when I was driving some dirt roads at age 12 with me and my sister.
    Freaked me out, so I never went through the driving portion of the driver's ed. test.

    Anyway, here in East Texas, cars and trucks are a way of life. Things are too widespread to rely on public transit, and the heat is a deterrent for everyday biking.
    It's probably different in the city.
     
  14. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    There are many places I go to where a car is a need not a want. LA is very much a need situation. Relying on public transportation is a huge disadvantage for jobs. I never worked in the same area twice while growing up there. I got my provisional license at 15.5 and full license at 16.

    Now, I live somewhere with robust public transportation choices and options, but I have had a car since I moved back from suburbia 10 years ago. Why? Because it allows me freedoms that public transportation does not. It's not so convenient to go via PT to some areas in Brooklyn or Queens where it will take 1.5 hours buy subway. In the car, I'm there in 20 minutes.

    My driving decreased in the 90's when I relied 100% on public transportation. Now, I have all the choices and am only driving for fun and entertainment.
     
  15. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars

    I'm reminded of a discussion I had with Poetry while she was here. In Toronto a lot of people take public transit. Driving in this city can be a pain, and is very stressful for folks who don't like to drive or are timid behind the wheel. Our public transit is robust and people from all walks of life use it -- it's not uncommon to share your morning commute with construction workers or nurses or business men in fancy suits. This contrasts with cities like Los Angeles where the public transit (so I'm told) is "for poor people." There's a certain stigma against relying on buses to get where you need to go.

    I have no desire to own a car as long as I live in the city. The TTC can get me where I need to go, and for those rare occasions when it can't or when I need cargo capacity I've got car sharing that works wonderfully. Why would I want to drop thousands of dollars per year on owning a car, when it provides almost no benefit?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    I live in Orlando, FL where public transportation has been officially declared socialist. I drive a Hyundai Elantra that is 8 years old and reliable. If I could travel by, say, high-speed rail, I would.
     
  17. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    I live out in the country so a car is a necessary evil.
    I still ride my bike to work most days.
    I would LOVE to have access to a transit system like Toronto's and be able to live car free.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Heh. They should defund it then. They should do that for all those socialist subsidies too, and everyone who's not among the 1% would probably end up walking or riding bikes.

    Yay!

    “Not TV or illegal drugs but the automobile has been the chief destroyer of American communities.”​
    ― Jane Jacobs, Dark Age Ahead
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  19. CinnamonGirl

    CinnamonGirl The Cheat is GROUNDED!

    I got my temps on my 16th birthday. Because of sports obligations, I wasn't able to take Driver's Ed until the summer after my birthday (which is in April.) I believe I got my license in August, a couple weeks before school started. (side note: I wasn't allowed to have anyone else in my car for something like 8 months. Which was probably a good call, but it made me feel a little silly to drive to my then-boyfriend's house so that his parents could then drive us to the movies :) )

    Anyway. I grew up in the sticks. The city bus didn't come anywhere near my house, so a car was kind of necessary to get to work (especially considering the roads I had to take to get there and back--biking probably would've gotten me killed.)

    I've used the buses here in NC a bit, and they're okay. They stop running at 6:00 pm, though, so you have to plan carefully. Eden and I have been using one car for...almost a year now, I think. It's not too bad, since we work together, but it is a bit of a pain when we want to do separate non-work things. (my truck should be fixed soon, though, so that's good.)

    I've never lived in a city big enough to have a really good public transit system, and to be honest, I probably never will. I would like to live in a community that's a bit more bike-friendly, though.


    Edit: Oh, about gas prices-- I used to just drive for the sake of driving, every chance I got. It was nothing for me to hit the backroads at home and drive around for a few hours. I often ended up in Indiana or Kentucky on those little jaunts. That's definitely not something I do anymore.
     
  20. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I have an old car, but I only drive it once or twice a week. I pay $149/6 months of insurance and if I didn't have to drive to the next state (300 miles) every other month...I wish I could live without a car now. However, back in college, it was the opposite. I wanted a car, but didn't have one.

    When I travel to big cities with good public transit and bike paths, it would be easy for me to not have a car in a big city.

    Now, the reason I haven't purchased a new car is because they aren't making the cars I want. Make something that gets 150-200 mpg or like Tesla and doesn't need gasoline, is aerodynamic, and high tech.