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Are there any boxing fans on TFP?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Chris Noyb, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I like boxing. It appeals to my dark side (repressed anger), even though part of me knows that it is a savage & brutal sport that takes a toll on fighters, especially the less talented fighters.

    There has been some highly questionable scoring in several fights, some recent (Alvarez-Mayweather, Chavez Jr-Vera), some not so recent ( Bradley-Pacquio). I've never felt that a few power punches from one fighter should negate the hustle of the much more active fighter, unless the punches seriously affected the other fighter. I'm not talking slapping & running, I mean a fighter who outhustles his opponent with meaningful punches, i.e. Bryan Vera.

    Please share your thoughts. I hope that this thread doesn't collect cobwebs :(.
     
  2. I used to be more of a fan than now. But the sport became too fractionalized with too many boxing associations, no unified titles. Add to that most if not all of the significant bouts are on PPV. Makes it hard to be a fan. I attended one title bout in Vegas at the MGM Grand several years ago when I was there for a convention. I flew in a day early just to see it. Was quite a night, there were some spectacular match ups on the undercard. But today, I couldn't tell you who was the best in any weight class.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Same here, although I try to follow some matches. I was a serious boxing nut back when great matches were on FREE tv, the early '70s thru mid '80s , not so much now. There are too many so-so matches on PPV, and even some of the so-called big matches aren't worth paying for. For example, did anyone who knows boxing actually expect Canelo Alvarez to be able to hit Mayweather consistently enough to hurt him, much less get a KO or the decision?
     
  4. I wish it were more accessible. But I think the sport lost its mojo. And I'm not sure it will get it back. Back in the 80s when Tyson was just coming into his own, HBO had every match. I never missed one. But Tyson's actions and the actions of others made the sport socially unacceptable. Every sport needs some hero worship, boxing had no heroes, no role models. Boxing always has had an unseemly element but there was no Sugar Ray Leonard any longer, although he had his demons, too. It became impossible to root for anyone due to their lifestyle. Boxing at the Olympics was a huge deal, not so much now. Casual fans lost interest. Back in the 60s and 70s prize fights were an event. Ali was the Beatles for a while. Boxing needs that again, I don't think it will happen, though.
     
  5. Fremen

    Fremen Allright, who stole my mustache?

    Location:
    E. Texas
    Yeah, Tyson pretty much turned me away from boxing.

    For me, it started with paying $50 for a PPV and having him knock the guy out in the first round, then the whole Holyfield ear debacle just clinched it.
     
  6. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I loved boxing back in the 80s and 90s. Wife doesn't like it so I don't watch it much anymore, not to mention the PPV prices are retarded. I can wait for highlights and replays.
     
  7. PPV is great for hardcore fans but how does the sport grow the casual fan base when it costs so much?
     
  8. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    For me, boxing on free TV really hit its heyday in the late '70s into the late '80s. The success of the '76 Olympic Boxing Team had a lot to do with it, not mention several weight divisions were loaded with talent.

    ABCs Wide World Of Sports used to show many bouts in various weight divisions. I enjoyed the light heavyweight fights.

    NBC focused mostly on the middleweights.

    CBS showed mostly lightweights matches. The lightweight (and junior welterweight/super lightweight division as fighters moved up in weight) was the most competitive weight class at the time, there were many talented fighters. While not all of them got a title shot or even earned one, on the right night many of them could've won a lightweight or junior welterweight title, or at least gave their opponent a hell of a fight.

    EDIT--I guess that I'm strolling down memory lane while wearing rose colored glasses, LOL.
     
  9. Gorgo

    Gorgo Vertical

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Yes, PPV helped kill boxing. I still watch all the time, but they can't make a match decent enough to get me to shell out $50. I'm not much of a scofflaw, but I illegally streamed the last Mayweather fight and felt no guilt.

    I think the way the UFC run is sadly unfair to the fighters, but at least the best possible fights actually happen. The fact that we'll never get to see the Pacquiao vs. Mayweather fight while both boxers are at the top of their games is a travesty.
     
  10. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Mayweather has borrowed a trick from Ray Leonard: Wait until a fighter starts showing signs of diminishing skills. Leonard did so with Hagler (I blame the Patronelli brothers for keeping Hagler out of the ring while "negotiating" with Leonard's people), and Hearns (waited seven years for a rematch).

    Floyd also tried another Leonard trick: Set weight restrictions that work in your favor (Canelo didn't fall for it). Leonard insisted on a 168 weight limit even though the match was for that Donny Lalonde's light heavyweight title (don't believe that crap about the vacant WBC super middleweight title, that was some more Leonard manipulation). The stupid part was Lalonde was never a "big/true" light heavyweight, 168 was closer to his natural weight than 175. Leonard pulled the same crap in the Hearns rematch, a 164 weight limit even though the WBC & WBO super middleweight titles were on the line. As Mel Brooks said in History of the World, "It's good to be the king."

    It's possible that Manny was doing some juicing that standard drug testing would miss, but I see it as Floyd avoiding Manny in his prime. That said, I'm surprised that Floyd didn't pursue Manny after Manny was KOd by Marquez. But look at the $$$ Floyd made fighting Saul "Canelo" Alvarez; anyone who follows boxing with their brain not their heart knew that Canelo didn't have the speed of hand and foot to seriously challenge Floyd. Floyd will go down in history as one of the best PFP fighters ever (unless he turns out to be another Roy Jones Jr.), but real boxing fans will remember him avoiding Manny.

    I have mixed feeling about MMA. While I can understand that wrestling skills are important in MMA, it can get pretty boring watching two fighters on the mat trying to get the better position.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I used to feel the same way about the ground game in MMA, but after some training in both striking and grappling, I've learned to greatly appreciate the strategy and stamina required in the latter. It's exhausting and requires a lot of thinking and quick decision making, as a split second is all it takes to determine whether you'll get a reversal on a guy or you'll end up tapping out.

    I used to make fun of that aspect: "MMA is just a couple minutes of striking before they lie down and hug it out for the rest of the match." However, not all fights go that way, and even when a fight does, I now liken it to a form of human chess--physically taxing, potentially painful human chess.
     
  12. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I can appreciate the skill & strategy involved in the ground game (I learned a new term today, I should be more careful :eek:). Watching the grappling can be tedious, but like you the more MMA I see the more I can understand the importance of wrestling skills. I suppose the same could be said for watching two good boxers moving & feinting while trying to find an opening.

    On the subject of PPV & boxing, back in '82 I paid to see two matches on CCTV at what was then The Summit, and consider it money well spent. The match between Lupe Pintor & Wilfredo Gomez was a back-and-forth slugfest that lasted nearly 14 rounds, while the match between Wilfred Benitez & Thomas Hearns was a chess match between two highly skilled boxers that went 15 rounds ending in a majority decision win for Hearns.

    IMO, Benitez is one of the 'fogotten' boxers who deserves better. He was the youngest boxer to ever win a world title, he gave Ray Leonard fits before getting KOd in the 15th round (chickenshit Leonard never gave him a rematch, which is no surprise to me), and he went 15 rounds with Duran.
     
  13. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Is there any other sport, other than boxing, where a professional "loser" can make money? Maybe MMA?

    I sometimes watch the fights on the Spanish language channels, Box Azteca & Solo Boxeo. Some of the bouts are clear mismatches where the "opponent" stands no chance in hell of winning even if he gives it his best effort. Solo Boxeo used to match Luis "Yori Boy" Campas (over a hundred fights, better than 80% win ratio) against fighter with less than 10 bouts. In many of the bouts the "opponent" flops, sometimes comically, the first time a punch comes close to landing.

    It's not unusual for managers & promoters to bring prospects along against lousy opponents, some being pro floppers. I can understand developing a fighters skills & building his confidence, but at some point a fighter has to face a real test. I've seen several impressive-on-paper fighters fall on their faces when they faced serious competition. Rick Hatton had a great record, inflated by fighting never-could-bes & has-beens. Julio Caesar Chavez, Jr. has been exposed (I'm really interested to see what happens with him).

    Some boxers have mediocre records despite being decent fighters. The reasons are numerous: Mismanagement, fighting on short notice, fighting way above their weight &/or skill level, forced to take dives, etc.

    Other fighters are professional losers. They make no effort to win, they are hired to lose, and their services are in demand.
     
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Only actually doing boxing...not watching it.

    I boxed way back when.

    Cover yourself. ;)
     
  15. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Lou Savarese was a white heavyweight who used to fight out of Houston. Up until '97 he had a good record, but only because his opponents were carefully chosen for their old age, incompetence, willingness to lose, etc..

    Lou milked four things for all they were worth: Skin color (don't underestimate the power of racism to generate $$$ in boxing), record (ppfffttt), a split decision loss to Foreman (I'm convinced that Foreman, although old & fat, took it easy on Lou), & a first round KO of Buster Douglas (this was after Buster nearly died of diabetes, he was NOT the same fighter he was when he KOd Tyson).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I never boxed, tried to when I was a kid, couldn't find a gym anywhere close. The fact that I only looked for a gym near me says a lot about my potential dedication.

    One of my XBILs fought as an amteur. As a 5'7" welterweight he had an impressive physique, but no matching punching power. He said he knew he was in for a long three rounds when he hit his opponent with his very best combinations and the guy didn't even blink.
     
  16. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    @StrangeFamous loves boxing.

    Too bad he's AWOL.
     
  17. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I've been meaning to give this thread a bump.

    I just watched When We Were Kings, the Academy Award winning documentary about Ali and his fight with George Foreman in Zaire. Even though I am big fan of boxing, and clearly remember the fight from when I was in Jr High, I wasn't blown away WWWK.

    Way too much Ali, way too little Foreman. I know WWWK was released in 1996 22 years after the 1974 fight, Ali won, and "to the victor goes the spoils." I see many written descriptions calling this a documentary about the fight; I intentionally call it a "documentary about Ali and his fight with George Foreman in Zaire."

    Listening to Ali for five minutes made me queasy; listening to Don King for 30 seconds nearly had me hugging the toilet bowl.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I must give congrats to Miguel Cotto for his KO win over Sergio Martinez. Cotto has been through some wars, recently hasn't looked good against top fighters even when he won, and quite a few people (myself included) thought that he was clearly on the decline. It's possible he'll again look wornout in his next fight, he certainly didn't against Martinez.
     
  18. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Floyd "Yes, I'm An Egotistical Dickhead, But I'm A Rich" Mayweather did what I expected (not to be confused with what I wanted to happen), he outboxed Manny Pacquio.
     
  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I like how you said he "outboxed" him instead of "outfought" him. Now everyone can go back to paying attention to proper combat sports. :p

    /underwhelming
    /isthatwhatwohundredmillionbuysyou?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2015
  20. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    Do these names sound familiar? Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard, Tomas Hearns.

    How about this one? Wilfred Benitez.