Are Men in Trouble?

Came across an article that I thought would make for interesting discussion.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/04/opinion/bennett-men-in-trouble/index.html

================

I can't count the innumerable times that magazines and other articles lauded the accomplishments of women, while rarely discussing male accomplishments and then often writing that men are becoming useless.

I personally think that there's a lot of logic flaws in these reports:

1.) First, while we traditionally associate college degrees with financial stability, the current recession leaves that up for debate. I know a good amount of blue-collar individuals who make a good living. The hypothesis here is (a) physical strength tends to lend to more blue collar style jobs, while (b) white collar jobs are more appealing to the physically weaker gender, but require an education. True, manufacturing and unskilled labor has moved overseas, but it's beginning to flow back to the USA as fuels and shipping becomes more expensive. Consequently, education is not itself indicative of financial accomplishment.

2.) Past performance is not indicative of future success. Will women's increase in earning power mean that when women reach earning power parity, they will necessarily surpass men in earning?

3.) 20% of men not working. What percentage of women aren't working?

============================

I know I'm probably going to get some nasty responses for the broad generalizations that I've used as a base for my hypothesis. And the man-child syndrome is definitely true. But, if women can live in a sexually liberated and independent world (i.e., go after career, decide not to raise a family), why are there criticisms levelled at men who similarly want to abscond from responsibility.

What does TFP think?

A.) Are men really falling behind?

B.) What do you think is the cause of the man-child syndrome?

There's also some interesting stuff about tanking marriage rates in Asia as women become more educationally and occupationally empowered, but I suppose that's for another topic.

 

In spite of that "statistic" that women's earnings grew 44% vs 6% for men, almost everything I read says that in equal job-for-job comparisons men still earn more than women. I agree that's not fair, but if women were so far behind to begin with, of course they have a lot more room to grow to achieve equal earnings. As far as the comparitive numbers pursuing or achieving degrees, the above seems to agree with my observations. So from an earnings P.O.V. I don't see men falling behind (at least yet) but in the degrees category that seems to be the case.

At least part of the man-child syndrome (if that's what I think it is) as I experience it is based in the "I just want to have fun in life" attitude. I prefer to focus on that part vs the argument about men not accepting responsibility as well as women. Life is too short to not have as much fun as possible along the way.

 

My balls itch. *scratches* Ow! (pulled a hair)

With that out of the way, does it really matter who pulls ahead?
We all live on planet Earth. We're stuck with each other. The good and bad.

If we reverse our roles as a society in some ways, then, I don't think it will be too detrimental, one way or the other.

Hasn't there been matriarchal societies in the past? They had dicks for leaders, too. (just like we do now)
Look what happened to them. Poof! Gone.

To try and answer your questions:
A) I don't know.
--- Whose yardstick are we measuring by?
I'm biased, but I don't think we've done too much of a bad job, so far.
Sure, we've nearly wiped out whole peoples, started untold wars, destroyed countless trees and animals and brought ourselves to the brink of extinction...
But, we've been to space...

B) I think it was the Industrial Revolution.
Everything became too easy when we invented all these marvelous toys, that halved our workload, and we suddenly (over a 150 years) have too much time on our hands.
Like BadNick said, we all just want to have fun.

 

Hopefully the trend will eventually reveal a leveling out and true equality of the sexes. Yeah, women are still just catching up. I don't buy the data that men are trailing behind. Not in the areas that count, anyway. There is still a disparity in places like Congress, upper and top level management positions , the military and it's hierarchy.

As to the man-child syndrome, maybe it's just the fear in knowing that growing up and moving out is as likely to result in failure as it does success. Wasn't always that way. Back in the day (I hate that expression but I'm too lazy to come up with something else) a young man could leave his parent's home and pretty much be assured that he'd at least be able to get a job to support himself, if not a wife and kids as well. That's no longer a guarantee and it can be hard to support yourself without a decent job.

Then again, I could just blame Mommies for over-coddling the little bastards.

 

There are so many things about this that lack a real context that it's difficult to make a meaningful response. Do women get more degrees than men? Yes. Do they earn more with those degrees? Depends... on an hourly basis, there's very little difference (despite what the 20% pay difference people will tell you). On an annual basis, men out-perform women with the same degree in almost all categories, and on a career basis, there's almost no place that women out-do men.

The wage gap is pretty much a myth outside of the government/non-profit areas. If a business owner can find a woman to do the same job (key here is SAME) for 80 cents on the dollar, with the remaining 20 cents going in his pocket, you can be damn sure he would. I know I would. I want that extra profit for ME. Most of the studies that show the wage gap are flawed in not considering actual hours worked weekly, a MAJOR consideration in setting wages. If you don't want to work all the overtime I need you to work, I won't pay you as much as someone who will.

Are men doomed to economic second class citizenship? That's doubtful. For decades the majority of upperclass money has been controlled by women, widowed and inherited from their husbands. Despite having the money, they have turned control of that money over to (mostly) male executors/children. There is still a strong societal belief that control of money is a male prerogative, and that doesn't seem to be changing much.

 

Warning: here be unscientifically proveable ramblings.

I don't know when it started, possibly the 1960's, definitely by the end of the 70's (maybe it was disco?) but since that time the western male has been increasingly pussified. I don't even know who's responsible. Maybe it's a by-product of the feminist movement. It might have something to do with the secularization of society and the move away from the Biblically defined family order and structure. Maybe its the flouride in our water.

I can't even define pussification. But it's evident in things like the way you're seeing so many public figures crying on television, or going in to rehabilitation for things like 'sexual addiction'. It's the way that men are being replaced in top level management positions by women, largely because men just don't have the balls, or the energy, or enthusiasm, or gumption to stay in those positions anymore. It's evident in the fact that there are stay-at-home dads. You know what they called stay-at-home dads in the 1950's? Well, they didn't call them anything because they didn't exist! Because men worked outside of the home. Because it was understood that women were better at being the primary caregivers. Because they were. Now that's all changed.

And what's worse is that the pussifiers say "That's progress. It's good that a man should show his feelings." They're just feeding the pussification down our throats.

No, I can't say definitively one way or another what's happened to us. But that's my unscientific idea.

 

I think it was me.

 

Mutey? We Pussifiers are happy with the progress we've made so far.
Now that we have all men tenderized and pliable, it will make our final castration process that much easier.
My cauldron-stirring - circle of crones, says so.

 

Define "Pussification"

1. pussification
pussification(noun): the state in which a society becomes less and less tough. This noun's originator is the famous comedian George Carlin.
"We are undergoing a pussification of our entire society."

2. pussification

The state of mind that a man undergoes when he has lost any control that he ever had in a relationship with a woman. The point in a relationship where a man becomes his mate's personal bitch. Once pussification takes over the man will spend every waking minute thinking of ways to please his mate.
"Hey Mike, wanna grab a beer after work?"
"Thanks guys, but I can't, I have to hurry home to give the cat a bath so that I'll have time to watch Seventh Heaven with the princess"
"Holy Shit!! Mike!! You've got pussification. We need to get alcohol in you right away"

3. pussification

To become a wus, coward, etc.
We are witnesses to the mass pussification of males as a result of the flood of female hormones in our water from the consumer use of the birth control pill.

4. pussification

A form of purification in which the target is rendered completely covered in salmon.
Kyle: "What is that God-awful stench?"
Nick: "It must be Sal."
Kyle: "Are you sure? Because it smells like Emma."
Nick: "No...it's Sal. He just underwent Pussification."

 

I'm always in trouble.

And I keep telling them it's not my fault.

Never works.

 

My field is primarily all male and my lady-half makes less money than I do. It's not happening anytime soon.

 

Call me pussified. I'm purrrrfectly happy doing the stay-at-home thing. I spent almost 30 years doing blue collar work and all I got from it was thickened hands and a solid grasp of the Vulgarian dialect. Now I do the kid thing, run errands and make dinner while my Lady goes out and slays the buffalo/drags it back to the lair.

Her education means she is in demand everywhere she goes. I would have to stand in line to get a job at McDonalds. I have never earned more than a fraction of what she does. I don't think of our situation as an anomaly. It is instead a part of a greater, complex reality. People do not get sorted into tidy little categories unless the sorter has a simplistic agenda. People do not readily wear tidy little labels unless the labeller has an unsophisticated understanding of relationships and functionality.

 

Relevant

 

as much of a bummer as it is, and as obscenely true as it is, Durden Zen isn't going to change anything. i personally think that the last glimmer of being a masculine man died the day the clip-on tie was invented or when the whole metrosexual cultural tsunami hit MTV. not sure which though.

 

Funny, my girlfriend shares an incredibly similar view. Hmmmmm

 

...and every generation has stated some version of the EventHorizon's previous post.

Masculinity died when:
- we started wearing pants
- kings were replaced by governing bodies
- suits of armor became obsolete
- we stopped carrying swords
- projectile weapons were invented
- women started wearing pants
- dueling was made illegal
- we stopped carrying guns
- that negro music became popular
- women were allowed to vote
- we stopped wearing fedoras
- domestic violence became a crime
- lawyers became the new weapon
- pornography became mainstream
- gays were allowed to _whatever_
- playground fights were banned
- men discovered hair care products
- video games > contact sports
- hetero couples engaged in anal
- manscaping became popular
- blah blah blah

Law, psychosocioeconopolitics and science/technology have done more to cut off our balls than women, but blaming women is certainly easier.

Because they deserve it.

You know who has made the Modern Man a pussy?

The guy in the mirror.

 

Anyone ever stop to think that it was the 'American Dream' that made men 'pussies'? Because for certain, many of those men who never made it are still as tough and
'manly' as ever.

 

I work and have always worked in IT which is a particularly male dominated industry. Over the years I've worked with / for / managed a lot of women and I can honestly say that professionally they're no different than men in their abilities. Sometimes I think Australia is a bit of a western back water in terms of sexual equality, and one thing I have noticed is that a lot of the women I've dealt with professionally have often had to work twice as hard to prove themselves. Again, IT is a pretty male dominated industry.

Men still dominate the field in a lot of areas, but the question is weather this is the case because women simply aren't attracted to those roles or industries.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous for men to feel threatened, just as I think it's ridiculous that in some industries women have to work so hard just to prove they're every bit as capable.

Australia is often reporting similar trends that women are starting to out strip men in academic performance, but there's also been an interesting trend here that women are also starting to represent at an alarming rate in crime statistics. Dunno what the fuck that's all about but hey, I'm all for equality.

Western society is a very complex and dynamic beast with constant social changes and circumstance. A lot of the time you just have to accept situations for what they are and adapt. As fucked up as it all can be at times we do live within a frame work that allows us quite a degree of freedom to just say "Fuck it, I'm not adhering to all this social norm bullshit. Me and my own are going to do our own thing." And provided that way doesn't break any laws people can get away with it with a surprising amount of acceptance these days. There's all kinds of sub-cultures that spring up and exist and get by without the world falling apart.

More women doing more stuff, I'm all for it.

 

Nice try, Canadian Overthrow Party. I'm going to punch you in the gut next Spring, you agreeable meek leftist manchild.

Well, I have been working out. I didn't think anybody noticed.