MP3 Encoding Rates - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Great Scott · 05-01-2003, 01:31 AM

Was scanning through a post about vinyl vs. cd and ran into a bit about encoding rates for digital music. Lots of people were complaining about low encoding rates. Have to admit that I am not at all familiar with this aspect of digital recording at all. What exactly does it mean in terms of what you hear? I do know that file-sharing most stuff is recorded at about 128K, so far I have no real reason to complain. Is the playback quality that much better with a higher encoding rate? Sorry for my ignorance....

clonmult · 05-01-2003, 08:28 AM

It will be better quality at higher data rates, more noticeable on higher quality audio gear.

For me, 128k is okay most of the time, although I do like going for 192kbps.

And on the vinyl vs. CD, give me vinyl every time (I've got a Linn Sondek, friend who does audio reviews for a living runs a Basis Debut Gold).

Spungfoo · 05-01-2003, 09:31 AM

128 sounds ok after tweaking all my equalizers... I always go for at least 192 if possible.

UnnDunn · 05-01-2003, 09:34 AM

Encoding rates (AKA bitrates or data rates) refers to the amount of data used to represent one second of audio/video. The more data you use, the higher the bitrate and the better the quality of the output - at least with the same codec.

For MP3, 128K used to be the 'standard' for internet downloading. It used to be called 'CD-quality' though it's definitely worse than a CD. Nowadays most people use 160K-192K which can be considered CD-quality, if the right encoders are used. Audiophiles, however, won't settle for less than 320K, though at bitrates that high, you'd need high-end equipment and highly trained ears to hear much of a difference.

There are other, more advanced codecs out there which provide the same quality at reduced bitrates, such as OGG Vorbis, Windows Media Audio and MPEG4 Advanced Audio Coding. Those codecs typically provide about a 30-50% improvement in quality, bit-for-bit over MP3, so a 128K AAC file, for example, can deliver the same quality as a 160K MP3.

meanSpleen · 05-01-2003, 12:58 PM

The only problems with OGG, WMA, and MPG4, is that they are not the standard for all the companies that create digital music devices. MP3 is the main form of encoding music. If you want the alternatives, you need plugins, or hacks for external digital music players.

Some support MP3, and WMA. Some support Ogg.

The_Dude · 05-01-2003, 01:45 PM

i personally dont notice the difference.

when i transfer to my mp3 player, i convert them to 64k, otherwise it cant play 'em (dont know why)

wg2000 · 05-01-2003, 03:30 PM

I use 160kbit (nominal) VBR Vorbis. Sounds awesome.

For the rare occasions I have to use MP3 I use 192kbit Joint-stereo.

clockworkgreen · 05-01-2003, 07:06 PM

I use whatever the person rips 'em in. :-)

God bless a.b.s.mp3.complete_cd

hammer4all · 05-02-2003, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnnDunn
Audiophiles, however, won't settle for less than 320K, though at bitrates that high, you'd need high-end equipment and highly trained ears to hear much of a difference.

This isn't necessarily true. Hydrogen Audio is a forum for audiophiles and the current recommended MP3 encoder is LAME 3.90.2 with --alt-preset standard -Z, which averages bit rates around 180-220 kbit/s. This setting is certainly transparent enough for me.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/index.p...=ST&f=15&t=203

TrollInvestigtr · 05-02-2003, 01:07 AM

Exact Audio copy with secure mode on (it keeps reading from CD until its SURE it has it perfect) then encoded with LAME VBR.

http://www.chrismyden.com/nuke/modul...&file=painless

UnnDunn · 05-02-2003, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TrollInvestigtr
Exact Audio copy with secure mode on (it keeps reading from CD until its SURE it has it perfect) then encoded with LAME VBR.

http://www.chrismyden.com/nuke/modul...&file=painless

Yeah, that's what I use as well. I couldn't be happier with the results.

SiN · 05-02-2003, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Great Scott
... I do know that file-sharing most stuff is recorded at about 128K, so far I have no real reason to complain. Is the playback quality that much better with a higher encoding rate? Sorry for my ignorance....

bah, ignorance is such a harsh word

(but, tip, as i'm sure you kno, but...google is a great way to find information)

anyways...tru that much of what you will find on say, p2p progs is 128..but the actual mp3 release scene standard is 192.
and yes, between the two, even i can hear the diff, and i suck at such things.
imo, no need to go higher unless you've got good equipment for hi-qual output...

and, LAME is good and much used for encoding..good and fast...

but personally i prefer radium's fraunhofer. :shrug:

Spanxxx · 06-29-2004, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clockworkgreen
I use whatever the person rips 'em in. :-)

God bless a.b.s.mp3.complete_cd

Damn, I wish I still had a good newsgroup server. =/

LNCPapa · 06-29-2004, 02:21 PM

I encode all my music at 320K mp3 - were OGG Vorbis more used I'd encode to that instead.

Speed_Gibson · 06-29-2004, 04:59 PM

as previously mentioned (and slightly updated), the recommended HydrogenAudio options are LAME 3.90.3 with the -LAME APS (alt preset standard)
that will be transparent for all but the problem samples.

05-01-2003, 01:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Great Scott Insane Location: In a huge maze just trying to find my cheese	MP3 Encoding Rates Was scanning through a post about vinyl vs. cd and ran into a bit about encoding rates for digital music. Lots of people were complaining about low encoding rates. Have to admit that I am not at all familiar with this aspect of digital recording at all. What exactly does it mean in terms of what you hear? I do know that file-sharing most stuff is recorded at about 128K, so far I have no real reason to complain. Is the playback quality that much better with a higher encoding rate? Sorry for my ignorance....

05-01-2003, 12:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
meanSpleen Squid hat! Location: A Few Miles Away From Halx	The only problems with OGG, WMA, and MPG4, is that they are not the standard for all the companies that create digital music devices. MP3 is the main form of encoding music. If you want the alternatives, you need plugins, or hacks for external digital music players. Some support MP3, and WMA. Some support Ogg. __________________ Like TFP? Donate To Keep It Alive!!

05-01-2003, 01:45 PM	#6 (permalink)
The_Dude The GrandDaddy of them all! Location: Austin, TX	i personally dont notice the difference. when i transfer to my mp3 player, i convert them to 64k, otherwise it cant play 'em (dont know why) __________________ "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Darrel K Royal

05-02-2003, 01:07 AM	#10 (permalink)
TrollInvestigtr Crazy	Exact Audio copy with secure mode on (it keeps reading from CD until its SURE it has it perfect) then encoded with LAME VBR. http://www.chrismyden.com/nuke/modul...&file=painless Last edited by TrollInvestigtr; 05-02-2003 at 01:11 AM..

06-29-2004, 02:21 PM	#14 (permalink)
LNCPapa Crazy Location: Notre Dame	I encode all my music at 320K mp3 - were OGG Vorbis more used I'd encode to that instead. __________________ No mercy for the bandwidth impaired

05-01-2003, 08:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
clonmult Crazy Location: Wherever I lay my hind quarters	It will be better quality at higher data rates, more noticeable on higher quality audio gear. For me, 128k is okay most of the time, although I do like going for 192kbps. And on the vinyl vs. CD, give me vinyl every time (I've got a Linn Sondek, friend who does audio reviews for a living runs a Basis Debut Gold).

05-01-2003, 09:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Spungfoo Insane Location: Pittsburgh, PA	128 sounds ok after tweaking all my equalizers... I always go for at least 192 if possible.

05-01-2003, 09:34 AM	#4 (permalink)
UnnDunn Upright Location: Havana, Cuba	Encoding rates (AKA bitrates or data rates) refers to the amount of data used to represent one second of audio/video. The more data you use, the higher the bitrate and the better the quality of the output - at least with the same codec. For MP3, 128K used to be the 'standard' for internet downloading. It used to be called 'CD-quality' though it's definitely worse than a CD. Nowadays most people use 160K-192K which can be considered CD-quality, if the right encoders are used. Audiophiles, however, won't settle for less than 320K, though at bitrates that high, you'd need high-end equipment and highly trained ears to hear much of a difference. There are other, more advanced codecs out there which provide the same quality at reduced bitrates, such as OGG Vorbis, Windows Media Audio and MPEG4 Advanced Audio Coding. Those codecs typically provide about a 30-50% improvement in quality, bit-for-bit over MP3, so a 128K AAC file, for example, can deliver the same quality as a 160K MP3.

05-01-2003, 03:30 PM	#7 (permalink)
wg2000 Tilted Location: Only in your mind	I use 160kbit (nominal) VBR Vorbis. Sounds awesome. For the rare occasions I have to use MP3 I use 192kbit Joint-stereo.

05-01-2003, 07:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
clockworkgreen Psycho Location: DC	I use whatever the person rips 'em in. :-) God bless a.b.s.mp3.complete_cd

06-29-2004, 04:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
Speed_Gibson Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Location: right here of course	as previously mentioned (and slightly updated), the recommended HydrogenAudio options are LAME 3.90.3 with the -LAME APS (alt preset standard) that will be transparent for all but the problem samples. __________________ Started talking to yourself I see. Yes, it's the only way I can be certain of an intelligent conversation. Black Adder