Alternatives to Google? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

lurkette · 05-18-2010, 06:00 AM

After reading a Cracked article "exposing" Google (taken with the appropriate grain or shaker of salt that Cracked articles deserve), I got to thinking...

...if I did want to opt out of the Google empire, where would I go? People use their products because they are useful, functional, elegant, and make life easier. But the thought of consolidating my entire life (calendar, email, searches, RSS feeds) into a cluster of apps controlled by a single entity does make me a wee bit nervous. The only assurance we have that they will not misuse the data we know (suspect?) they are collecting on us is their word, and the threat of revolt and exodus if people got upset about it.

But really, what would I do instead? Go back to Thunderbird? Use "Bing"? Are there any other alternatives that aren't just as suspect? If a moderately paranoid chick was interested in uncoupling from the Google Hive, what products/services would you recommend? Are there practices I don't know about that can shield my personal information from being collected and stored and subjected to subpoenas or sold to the highest bidder?

Cynthetiq · 05-18-2010, 06:07 AM

If you've been paying attention to my facebook profile, you'd see I started a group about privacy. I've always been paying close attention to the privacy policies of websites and I find them a bit one sided as I would expect from any faceless corporation.

You're on a computer system that can and will be used for tracking. It's all built into the system. You think that it's not, but it is. There's ways to see just what apps are being launched what date, time, and by who. Cookies track activities, etc.

I don't say this to be alarmist, but to be conscious of it. When I don't want someone to know something, I don't use a computer, just ilke if I want to keep a secret I don't tell anyone.

What I find is that I keep disparate things with disparate companies. I'm even tempted to use old obsolete tech to keep things more private. The problem with this is interoperability. I don't get the benefits of seamless experience, which is what has made computers to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

AquaFox · 05-18-2010, 01:33 PM

the only google product I refuse to use is the chrome browser. I do find it creepy that facebook and gmail customize your emails based upon your email content and who you are.

i think one of the best way to keep a clean identity on the internet is to never use your real name... fake names or nick names work.

I like to think my own domain name with my own email service is clean and safe but all emails end up going though the same pipeline anyway... everything you do goes though your ISP and though all the routers of the internet. No matter who you use, it still goes though them.

SecretMethod70 · 05-18-2010, 05:05 PM

Simple answer: you're not going to find any other company that's significantly better than Google with regards to privacy. They're not perfect and they screw up (see: Google Buzz initial rollout or censorship of Blogger), but they're generally benevolent about the data they collect. Personally identifiable info is deleted in a somewhat reasonable time (though I do think it should be shorter), and flaws in e-mail privacy have more to do with antiquated laws than Google itself (data stored on servers for X time is legally considered abandoned and can be accessed without a subpoena - yes, that includes your 2 year old GMail contents).

Your best bet, if you don't trust Google or don't trust that our laws will eventually become reasonable with regards to technology, is to spread yourself out. You'll lose all the benefits of interoperability, but you won't have all your eggs in one basket.

GMail
Frankly, if there's only one Google app you use besides Search, it should be GMail. It's just that good. But, if you want to use some other free online e-mail service, there's always Yahoo! Mail or Hotmail. Alternatively, you can keep using your GMail address but get the data off Google's servers by using Thunderbird and setting it to delete the e-mails on the server when it retrieves them.

Google Calendar
Mozilla also offers a calendar product. Online, there's 30 Boxes and Yahoo! Calendar.

Google Docs
Zoho is a very good alternative to Google Docs, and it turns out they have an e-mail service as well.

Google Reader
Netvibes is more than an RSS reader, it's "your personal dashboard," making it also a replacement for your iGoogle page. Bloglines is another popular alternative.

Google Maps
Ask Maps, Bing Maps (the only reason to ever go to Bing IMO, their bird's eye view is pretty cool)

Google Profile
Flavors.me, dooid, magntize

Beyond that, we're getting into apps that already have well-known alternatives (Flickr instead of Picasa, etc), so I'll stop there. Thing is, in most cases Google's apps are still the best. It's also worth noting that these other companies aren't going to be that much different than Google when it comes to storing your data. I find it easier to stay on top of one company's actions with my data rather than 10, and I like the integration Google products offer me. I understand why others may have a different viewpoint though. As cynthetiq says, the only real way to keep your data almost completely secure is to keep it off the internet altogether.

Jetée · 05-18-2010, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Google Reader
Netvibes is more than an RSS reader, it's "your personal dashboard," making it also a replacement for your iGoogle page. Bloglines is another popular alternative.

Not to make this about myself, but this little endorsement for RSS products outside of Google Reader sounds enticing. I don't know why, but I've still only used Google Reader maybe 3 times, at most, since January, and it's giving me a headache just knowing I have more than 4,000 unread "posts".

I think I'll give NetVibes a whirl for this week. Thanks SM70.

SecretMethod70 · 05-18-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetée

Not to make this about myself, but this little endorsement for RSS products outside of Google Reader sounds enticing. I don't know why, but I've still only used Google Reader maybe 3 times, at most, since January, and it's giving me a headache just knowing I have more than 4,000 unread "posts".

I think I'll give NetVibes a whirl for this week. Thanks SM70.

Your problem sounds a lot more like an issue with RSS in general rather than an issue with Google Reader. With Bloglines, at least, you'll get those same 4000+ unread posts. The only reason you won't with Netvibes is that it's primarily a "personal dashboard," not an RSS reader. So, items disappear as new ones come in. From the sound of it, that may be your best approach. (Google's iGoogle can work similarly, so if you wanted to you could take the same approach using a Google products if you prefer.)

blktour · 05-18-2010, 07:09 PM

Startpage Search Engine

This brings different search results than google.

ASU2003 · 05-21-2010, 05:59 PM

I have always used Yahoo! and now use Apple's products (I'm not always on-line or on my phone)

And I do like Google Earth.

Pearl Trade · 05-22-2010, 06:35 PM

Google has always been the best for me. How often do you hear people say "Google it"? There's a reason why that's a common sentence: Google is great.

Jetée · 05-23-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurkette

Are there practices I don't know about that can shield my personal information from being collected and stored and subjected to subpoenas or sold to the highest bidder?

You can always not log in to the search engine in which you are using. That way, no trail, no name, no history (save for the cookies from your browser, but those can be cleared out easily).

Also, as AquaFox mentioned, near at all costs, do not use any traces in daily web activities that make mention of who you "actually" are, whether that be your name, where you live, or what sort of personal communtiy you belong to (married, college-life, working at Home Depot). This is an extreme approach, of course, but this is the optimal solution for the extremely paranoid, average net citizen.

I'm not sure of their validity, or how much they work to throw someone like the CIA of your trail, (if they, indeed, were ever on it to begin with) but try using web anonymizers, or what do you call them, "something-IP"? I don't know how they work exactly (save for the fact that I bought one which claims to allow me to appear like a 'static, stationary user') but I think they work similarly to how a website admin views a person who acesses their site via Google's cache. They don't know from where it came from precisely, as it is Google's snapshot of what it appeared like from it's crawler's last visit. I could be totally wrong on that example, though.

SecretMethod70 · 05-27-2010, 01:23 AM

Google's not perfect, but it's hard to argue that they don't at least try to do what's right. They just released a browser add-on that allows you to opt out of Google Analytics. There's really no business reason for them to do this, but we all now have the ability to avoid being counted by Google Analytics if that bothers you.

http://lifehacker.com/5548352/google...acking-service

Quote:

It is another step in letting you determine how Google controls your data, and if you're concerned about your privacy, a recommended download.

After the add-on is installed, it will make sure that your browser no longer sends data back to Google's tracking servers. There's nothing to configure: Once installed, it works automatically.

Google Analytics Opt-out Browser Add-on Download Page

Wyodiver33 · 05-27-2010, 04:00 PM

I use Google for GMail and Search. I'm not a saint, but I'm not dangerous. So I don't much worry about them. I love Gmail.

05-18-2010, 06:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Alternatives to Google? After reading a Cracked article "exposing" Google (taken with the appropriate grain or shaker of salt that Cracked articles deserve), I got to thinking... ...if I did want to opt out of the Google empire, where would I go? People use their products because they are useful, functional, elegant, and make life easier. But the thought of consolidating my entire life (calendar, email, searches, RSS feeds) into a cluster of apps controlled by a single entity does make me a wee bit nervous. The only assurance we have that they will not misuse the data we know (suspect?) they are collecting on us is their word, and the threat of revolt and exodus if people got upset about it. But really, what would I do instead? Go back to Thunderbird? Use "Bing"? Are there any other alternatives that aren't just as suspect? If a moderately paranoid chick was interested in uncoupling from the Google Hive, what products/services would you recommend? Are there practices I don't know about that can shield my personal information from being collected and stored and subjected to subpoenas or sold to the highest bidder? __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

05-18-2010, 06:07 AM	#2 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	If you've been paying attention to my facebook profile, you'd see I started a group about privacy. I've always been paying close attention to the privacy policies of websites and I find them a bit one sided as I would expect from any faceless corporation. You're on a computer system that can and will be used for tracking. It's all built into the system. You think that it's not, but it is. There's ways to see just what apps are being launched what date, time, and by who. Cookies track activities, etc. I don't say this to be alarmist, but to be conscious of it. When I don't want someone to know something, I don't use a computer, just ilke if I want to keep a secret I don't tell anyone. What I find is that I keep disparate things with disparate companies. I'm even tempted to use old obsolete tech to keep things more private. The problem with this is interoperability. I don't get the benefits of seamless experience, which is what has made computers to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

05-18-2010, 01:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
AquaFox WaterDog	the only google product I refuse to use is the chrome browser. I do find it creepy that facebook and gmail customize your emails based upon your email content and who you are. i think one of the best way to keep a clean identity on the internet is to never use your real name... fake names or nick names work. I like to think my own domain name with my own email service is clean and safe but all emails end up going though the same pipeline anyway... everything you do goes though your ISP and though all the routers of the internet. No matter who you use, it still goes though them. __________________ ...AquaFox...

05-18-2010, 05:05 PM	#4 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Simple answer: you're not going to find any other company that's significantly better than Google with regards to privacy. They're not perfect and they screw up (see: Google Buzz initial rollout or censorship of Blogger), but they're generally benevolent about the data they collect. Personally identifiable info is deleted in a somewhat reasonable time (though I do think it should be shorter), and flaws in e-mail privacy have more to do with antiquated laws than Google itself (data stored on servers for X time is legally considered abandoned and can be accessed without a subpoena - yes, that includes your 2 year old GMail contents). Your best bet, if you don't trust Google or don't trust that our laws will eventually become reasonable with regards to technology, is to spread yourself out. You'll lose all the benefits of interoperability, but you won't have all your eggs in one basket. GMail Frankly, if there's only one Google app you use besides Search, it should be GMail. It's just that good. But, if you want to use some other free online e-mail service, there's always Yahoo! Mail or Hotmail. Alternatively, you can keep using your GMail address but get the data off Google's servers by using Thunderbird and setting it to delete the e-mails on the server when it retrieves them. Google Calendar Mozilla also offers a calendar product. Online, there's 30 Boxes and Yahoo! Calendar. Google Docs Zoho is a very good alternative to Google Docs, and it turns out they have an e-mail service as well. Google Reader Netvibes is more than an RSS reader, it's "your personal dashboard," making it also a replacement for your iGoogle page. Bloglines is another popular alternative. Google Maps Ask Maps, Bing Maps (the only reason to ever go to Bing IMO, their bird's eye view is pretty cool) Google Profile Flavors.me, dooid, magntize Beyond that, we're getting into apps that already have well-known alternatives (Flickr instead of Picasa, etc), so I'll stop there. Thing is, in most cases Google's apps are still the best. It's also worth noting that these other companies aren't going to be that much different than Google when it comes to storing your data. I find it easier to stay on top of one company's actions with my data rather than 10, and I like the integration Google products offer me. I understand why others may have a different viewpoint though. As cynthetiq says, the only real way to keep your data almost completely secure is to keep it off the internet altogether. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling Last edited by SecretMethod70; 05-18-2010 at 05:10 PM..

05-22-2010, 06:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
Pearl Trade Addict Location: Houston, Texas	Google has always been the best for me. How often do you hear people say "Google it"? There's a reason why that's a common sentence: Google is great. __________________ Our revenge will be the laughter of our children. Give me convenience or give me death!

05-18-2010, 07:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
blktour Psycho Location: Anchorage, AK	Startpage Search Engine This brings different search results than google.

05-21-2010, 05:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	I have always used Yahoo! and now use Apple's products (I'm not always on-line or on my phone) And I do like Google Earth.

05-27-2010, 04:00 PM	#12 (permalink)
Wyodiver33 Just here for the beer. Location: Ft. Lauderdale, Floriduh	I use Google for GMail and Search. I'm not a saint, but I'm not dangerous. So I don't much worry about them. I love Gmail. __________________ I like stuff.