Abortion in the case of rape - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

iccky · 11-10-2004, 08:32 PM

DISCLAIMER: This thread is not intended as flamebate, and seeks the explination of the opinion of a specific set of people. It IS NOT intended to spark a full-fledged debate on abortion. Mods, if this should be in politics I appologize, I put it here in response to the abortion survey in this thread.

Anyway. A fair number of people express the view that abortion should be illegal except in the case of rape or incest. Now, I always assume that the belief that abortion shouls be illegal is based on the idea that life begins at conception, so abortion is murder. Why then, is murder ok if the unborn child is the result of rape? Certainly, carrying a child resulting from rape could be a horribly traumatic experience, but does 9 months of trauma for the mother justify murder?

Again, just looking for an expliation, not looking to start a war.

I ask this because I used to hold this view, until I met someone who was the child of a rape. He made me rethink my whole position and, ironicaly, come down on the opposite side as him (since I am now uncomfortably pro-choice).

TM875 · 11-10-2004, 09:04 PM

Ah, you're from the camp that believes in the theory of John T. Noonan. Noonan believed that in all cases, except for danger towards the mother's life, abortion is immoral and should not be allowed.

I believe that the basis of the "abortion is okay after a rape" belief is that, in all other cases, it is in some part the woman's fault. More importantly, she had, in some way, initiated the sex act and therefore should be prepared to deal with the consequences. In a rape, the woman is an "innocent", and thus should not be held accountable for the actions of another.

onodrim · 11-10-2004, 09:16 PM

Going along with what TM875 said, I think a large part of the argument for abortion to be legal in the case of a rape comes from the fact that it was a truly unwanted pregnancy on the part of the women. It's not like she forgot to take her birth control, she was completely victimized and that baby theoretically should never have been conceived. Yes, she could give the baby up for adoption once she had it, but she would still have to carry it for nine months as a constant reminder of the horrible even she endured. It is a tough argument.

1010011010 · 11-10-2004, 09:38 PM

It basically comes from viewing pregnancy (and raising a child) as punishment for willful fornication. If you haven't commited the crime (by being unwilling) then you don't deserve the punishment.

Pragmatically, allowing for a rape loophole will only result in a truly astounding crimewave of sexual predators, most of whom will never be caught or identified.

MSD · 11-11-2004, 05:26 AM

This thread gives me deja vu, and it isn't a glitch in the Matrix this time.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=72071

11-10-2004, 08:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
iccky Psycho Location: Princeton, NJ	Abortion in the case of rape DISCLAIMER: This thread is not intended as flamebate, and seeks the explination of the opinion of a specific set of people. It IS NOT intended to spark a full-fledged debate on abortion. Mods, if this should be in politics I appologize, I put it here in response to the abortion survey in this thread. Anyway. A fair number of people express the view that abortion should be illegal except in the case of rape or incest. Now, I always assume that the belief that abortion shouls be illegal is based on the idea that life begins at conception, so abortion is murder. Why then, is murder ok if the unborn child is the result of rape? Certainly, carrying a child resulting from rape could be a horribly traumatic experience, but does 9 months of trauma for the mother justify murder? Again, just looking for an expliation, not looking to start a war. I ask this because I used to hold this view, until I met someone who was the child of a rape. He made me rethink my whole position and, ironicaly, come down on the opposite side as him (since I am now uncomfortably pro-choice).

11-10-2004, 09:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
TM875 Addict Location: Amish-land, PA	Ah, you're from the camp that believes in the theory of John T. Noonan. Noonan believed that in all cases, except for danger towards the mother's life, abortion is immoral and should not be allowed. I believe that the basis of the "abortion is okay after a rape" belief is that, in all other cases, it is in some part the woman's fault. More importantly, she had, in some way, initiated the sex act and therefore should be prepared to deal with the consequences. In a rape, the woman is an "innocent", and thus should not be held accountable for the actions of another. __________________ "I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

11-10-2004, 09:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
onodrim Cosmically Curious Location: Chicago, IL	Going along with what TM875 said, I think a large part of the argument for abortion to be legal in the case of a rape comes from the fact that it was a truly unwanted pregnancy on the part of the women. It's not like she forgot to take her birth control, she was completely victimized and that baby theoretically should never have been conceived. Yes, she could give the baby up for adoption once she had it, but she would still have to carry it for nine months as a constant reminder of the horrible even she endured. It is a tough argument. __________________ "The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides" -Carl Sagan

11-10-2004, 09:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
1010011010 Psycho Location: Virginia Beach, VA	It basically comes from viewing pregnancy (and raising a child) as punishment for willful fornication. If you haven't commited the crime (by being unwilling) then you don't deserve the punishment. Pragmatically, allowing for a rape loophole will only result in a truly astounding crimewave of sexual predators, most of whom will never be caught or identified. __________________ *Simple Machines in Higher Dimensions*

11-11-2004, 05:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	This thread gives me deja vu, and it isn't a glitch in the Matrix this time. http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=72071