Nothing like being penalized for being TOO good at things

[rat]

Just got done reading the Lonely Hearts Club Thread, and though I empathize, it's for reasons almost the opposite of those in that thread. I say this not to brag, but felt that a new thread would be better for a different issue than drawing that one off topic.

My problem with the opposite sex, and namely significant others lies in the fact that I'm too good at being the right guy. I know how to connect with people on a personal level and gain trust in a very short time. I know the right things to say at the right moments, when to be vulnerable, when to be strong. I pay attention to the minutia, down to the color of her toenails, layers of her hair, the way her outfit matches--and I comment on them. Loyalty and sincerity come like breathing to me, and the thought of cheating, if entertained for longer than a fleeting moment, is crushed by my dedication to the relationship I am in at the given time. I know how to build people up, how to play off their confidence and their anxiety, how to get what I want without ever having to ask.

And I absolutely fucking hate it. It's not necessarily an act, but more a lifestyle that I can enter and exit on a whim. Parents of all but one of my previous girlfriends liked me upon their first conversation with me, and I'm great with both younger and older siblings. Hell, the grandparents I've met genuinely like me. I just go into "Southern gentleman" mode and I find people of previous generations meshing their personalities with mine flawlessly. With the exception of that one girl whose parents didn't like me (I never took the time to sit down and win them over), every single one of my girlfriends has said straight-out, even to this day, that I treated them better than any guy they've dated. Teddy bears when they're feeling bad, roses at random, at one point arranging 8 dozen single stem roses to spell "I LOVE YOU" below a 6-dozen rose centerpiece after work on a rainy 1.30am morning, simple things like telling them how much I appreciate their company, hugs, kisses, "I love you"s in person and "I miss you"s over the phones, visiting them at work, or calling to see how their day is going. Every single little thing that women complain guys don't do--I do it. I'm also genuine when I do it because I do it almost out of a sense of duty--kinda like these are the things I should be doing, so I go ahead and do them. And I hated doing it with all but one of them.

At this point, that one doesn't have the time to deal with the likes of me, or maintain the friendship that we'd had for the past 2 years since we'd dated. Do I love her? More than I'd thought to love anyone. Is it pure romantic longing? No, it's more of a solid foundation rather than a vaulted ceiling. Like the currents of a large river, the love runs deep and swift, but with little of the surface-show that shallow rapids have. Would I forsake any other woman for her? At this point, the answer is "more than likely" rather than simply "yes." Does that make me any less loving? To me, no. But once again, she doesn't have (or won't make) the time to see me while she's home for the summer, so I've been pursuing other routes though not very seriously.

The crux of the situation lies in the fact that I have a reputation locally for being that amazing guy I described--right up to the point where I get tired of dealing with the women I spoil and move on to something new. All the girls I know do is bitch about how their boyfriends or the guys they are interested in do so much to anger them. They complain about how insensitive the guy is. But they don't do a damned thing about it. And then they tell me what a great guy I am....and I kinda "gee shucks, thanks" the situation away because I'm not gonna steal another man's lady. However, the single ladies also know that I have a habit of going through women (not playing them, but tiring of them) the way some people go through cars--six months here, two months there, four months here and so on. They also won't even go on dates with me because of my reputation for enticing women I like into relationships. The charm, when turned on, has been rarely denied.

Like I said, I'm not posting any of this to brag--I don't do that with any of my posts here on TFP. Rather, I do it as verifiable evidence that doing everything right may pay off in the short run, but in the long run, if they can't accept imperfections, you'll end up miserable regardless of your actions. That, and maybe looking for some help to get around the fact that I'm considered to be too smooth with women from my past.....

[amonkie]

Originally posted by rat
Every single little thing that women complain guys don't do--I do it. I'm also genuine when I do it because I do it almost out of a sense of duty--kinda like these are the things I should be doing, so I go ahead and do them. And I hated doing it with all but one of them.

This right here got my attention. If you're doing all the *right* things from a sense of duty, no wonder you're getting tired! No matter how nice it is to recieve tokens of affection and even love, if a guy is not doing those things for me simply because he wanted me to know I was thinking of him, and he wanted to be creative and show his care/attention/love in spending his energy in making/doing thoughtful things that conveyed that caring, those gifts mean nothing. I was in a relationship where the genuine attention and love I got was far better and more important to me than lavish gifts. The three artistic and unique carnations I got while my irises were on order for my birthday once were one of THE most cherished tokens I got from the guy. And it was because he knew how much irises were my favorite flower, and the time he spent to track down something unique made me feel on top of the world.

So I guess all this is saying you need to stop the gifts and gestures if they're coming from a sense of obligation. A girl should be wanting to date you for YOU, not for the gifts and gestures she thinks she's going to recieve after she starts dating you.

[wilbjammin]

I agree with amonkie; that line just jumped out at me. Duty is not genuine in the same way that doing those things merely out of love or concern are. It reminds me of Kant's categorical imperative, and my biggest criticism of it: what about you? Duty for duty's sake is lacking when it isn't intrinsic - it sounds like you come naturally to duty, but not to the connection with the person you enact these actions of duty towards. (for you it is women, for Kant it is God and society...) Find a way to weigh heavier on the connection than the sense of duty...

You get tired because you don't really focus on yourself enough. You continue to pour yourself out as this amazing person that is good at everything, but what are you getting out of it other than a reputation and an ego of being that "great guy"?

Throw all of that shit out of the window. I'd wager that your great listening skills aren't being matched your great skills of letting your guard down and truly sharing yourself. How many people out there really know you? The good and the bad? The terrible you and the wonderful you? Who would stay for both?

Your willingness to leave shows your unwillingness to advance naturally through the course of a relationship to create a genuine tie that would warrant such gift-giving. Slow down and make it mean something... not in a "southern gentlemanly" way, but in a sincere one-on-one way. If the girl is worth it, then she will also be worth it if you go slower through the process of the relationship. She will appreciate your desire not to rush things and your desire not to make things get out of hand. She will appreciate that you are both sure about what you want before "getting tired" or finding that she's really the one...

In this circumstance it appears that your homework assignment is to figure out what it is that want in a relationship that you haven't been getting, and where you're going to get it.

[rat]

Originally posted by amonkie

So I guess all this is saying you need to stop the gifts and gestures if they're coming from a sense of obligation. A girl should be wanting to date you for YOU, not for the gifts and gestures she thinks she's going to recieve after she starts dating you.

that's part of the problem...the things i do are spontaneous, thoughtful, and many a time creative...The roses I'd actually picked up from a wedding reception I'd helped cater at no cost to myself, and arranging them was something I did on a whim on my way home from work as I was passing her neighborhood....The things I do have very little monetary worth, and I do them more to show appreciation....they're like sun-showers in july--you don't know when they'll come, but they're a pleasant experience...

I guess it's more of dissatisfaction of doing the "right things" not because anyone expects it of me, but rather because i expect it of myself. If I know I could be a more attentive and thoughtful significant other, then I do so. I hold myself to really high standards, and if I don't meet those standards I'm disappointed in myself. If I know my girlfriend really loves flowers, sweet letters, and me cooking her dinner, I do it because I know if I don't, I'll think less of myself. I make a commitment to myself as part of my lifestyle to go above and beyond with every person I meet to show them my appreciation and some level of kindness--it just goes to a greater degree when I'm dating someone.

[rat]

Originally posted by wilbjammin

In this circumstance it appears that your homework assignment is to figure out what it is that want in a relationship that you haven't been getting, and where you're going to get it.

satisfaction is one of the hardest things to attain for someone who never fulfills their own potential

there are a few of those girls, namely the one I'd be more than happy to commit to long term, who actually know me well. They've seen the anger, the frustration, the tears of pain and joy, the brooding and the sorrow, the regret and the passion with which I live my life. and not too many of em were willing to stick around when they found out there was depth to me. those I've written off, but the two that stayed--well, one ended horribly, and the other has been a trainwreck of a friendship/relationship for the last year and a half or so.

the majority of this entire situation is nothing more than an attempt to delve into the socio-psychological impacts of my previous behavior and how to address certain deficiencies from the past in an effor to quit repeating them in the future.

add to that the fact that I'm on the cusp of the maturity-curve when it comes to relationships, and it really becomes a mess. Turning 21 in July, and having two years of college left plants me right in the middle of two age groups I have little in common with: the 17-19 year-olds and the 22-24 year olds. the first group is still maturing and experiencing freedoms in their lives, and I've walked that road. Not too sure I'd find someone I'd be willing to play wetnurse to all over again. The older of the two groups generally involves women that have finished their undergraduate degrees and are either career-oriented or in grad school (neither of which are negatives in my book). As someone still in college, I don't appeal too much to those ladies, especially lacking a full-time job with benefits and the stability that many of them are searching for.

Added to that the fact that the majority of my girlfriends have been "referrals" to some extent in that I met them through friends or ex's of mine throughout the years.

[maleficent]

When you say I love you, do you mean it?

This is not trying to sound negative, but it sounds like you are all about the hunt, and once you get the girl, then you get bored, or frustrated, or whatever.

Same advice applies as the Lonely Hearts thread, be yourself, people will like you fine for you, you needn't try so hard to impress the ladies, and it's a lot less work for you.

[rat]

Originally posted by maleficent
When you say I love you, do you mean it?

At the time I said it, I meant it. Looking back, I realize that I didn't love most of them.

This is not trying to sound negative, but it sounds like you are all about the hunt, and once you get the girl, then you get bored, or frustrated, or whatever.

Yeah, I used to really be like that. It would hit in the fifth or sixth week of a relationship, and I'd be out of there quick. I learned to stick around over time, but even then the frustration was there.

Same advice applies as the Lonely Hearts thread, be yourself, people will like you fine for you, you needn't try so hard to impress the ladies, and it's a lot less work for you.

I think that's part of the problem. I don't do it to impress others--I do it because I know I have the ability to maintain standards of behavior. If I know I could handle a situation better than I have, I try to find a way to keep from repeating the mistake. Over time, I've pretty much removed the behavior that has cost me relationships, and truly am a caring person. If there was one thing I am passionate about, it's doing what I can to show those I spend my time with that they are appreciated. I do it with family, neighbors, friends and significant others. It's just that when I feel the need to move on or that a relationship is going nowhere, I end it. Prevarification is not something I'd like to receive from a girlfriend, so I don't give it to them. I'm straightforward and honest why I'm ending the relationship. I've sat and had one cry on my couch, bawling her eyes out, for 45 minutes before I respectfully escorted her to her car.

I am a genuinely selfless person, so doing the "little" things comes naturally to me. But then when a relationship is ended, people think I was "putting on an act" or doing it to "impress people" when that's not it at all. When a girl is my significant other, she gets treated as a significant part of my life. That sort of treatment comes with the territory. But when it's over, they expect me to still be as solicitous of their feelings and sensibilities and defend them to others. It's laughable. I'm reminded of Chris Rock's Bigger and Blacker when he says "Accustomed to...accustomed to...what the fuck is accustomed to? You go into a steakhouse, you accustomed to eatin'. You leave, they don't owe you a fucking steak!" It's not that I'm bitter or vindictive, I just don't provide what I did in the relationship...kinda makes sense from the steakhouse standpoint in my opinion.

[livingfossil]

At the time I said it, I meant it. Looking back, I realize that I didn't love most of them.

Love's not something you can look back on and see. It's a momentous occasion, in whatever sense.

I am a genuinely selfless person, so doing the "little" things comes naturally to me. But then when a relationship is ended, people think I was "putting on an act" or doing it to "impress people" when that's not it at all. When a girl is my significant other, she gets treated as a significant part of my life.

Well, you may be a genuinely selfless person, but what, exactly, does that mean? That you perform the role of significant other as you see it, to its utmost perfection? That relationships are to become a sort of trial of your ability, each honing it further so that you become the best there is, the best there ever will be? I dunno, it is the semblance of selflessness, but is it selflessness really? Or, is it a way to improve yourself, as you say here:

the majority of this entire situation is nothing more than an attempt to delve into the socio-psychological impacts of my previous behavior and how to address certain deficiencies from the past in an effor to quit repeating them in the future.

and here:

I guess it's more of dissatisfaction of doing the "right things" not because anyone expects it of me, but rather because i expect it of myself. If I know I could be a more attentive and thoughtful significant other, then I do so. I hold myself to really high standards, and if I don't meet those standards I'm disappointed in myself.

As you describe them, your relationships appear to be a bit onesided, you are not --to use a pop. psych. cliché--"letting in" the general recipient of you displays of affection, except the "few" girls you mention. If you actually wanted your partners to play a significant role in your life--and you must, since you're dissatisfied with the way your usual relationships go--you will have to do two things: find a person whom you consider worthy of your company--I use <i>worthy</i> here because it seems to me that you're using relationships as a way of self-improvement, a way to practice your self-control, which does not make for a lasting committment, as it connotes an appreciation of the object of your desire as an objective to be achieved, not as a living, breathing, choatic, unknowable subject--perhaps I get a bit romantic?; second, on finding that girl, guy, whatever, you ought invest yourself in him.her.it, and not in the performance of the role you find appropriate. Satisfaction is hard to achieve, indeed.

You obviously are attentive, just find someone you're content focusing on, because until you find that person--finding him or her may require a serious refocusing of your expectations--you will never be content in a relationship. You'll continue to get bored and move on.

[dirtyrascal7]

so you've perfected the art of showing affection and appreciation in the superficial way that every girl dreams of... no wonder you're not getting anywhere with these girls.

you're doing all these things for totally selfish reasons; to make you feel decent and like you're "living up to your potential". and while the byproduct might seem that you're acting like the perfect gentleman in her eyes and her parents eyes, your intentions for doing those things aren't genuine, and that's why it slowly eats at you until you can't stand it any longer.

it's not the fact that you're too good at showing affection, you're just showing it for the wrong reasons. if you were doing it because you genuinely cared for those girls, you wouldn't have been able to turn it off so easily.

[clockworkgreen]

ACTING!

/jon lovitz

[rat]

Originally posted by livingfossil

You obviously are attentive, just find someone you're content focusing on, because until you find that person--finding him or her may require a serious refocusing of your expectations--you will never be content in a relationship. You'll continue to get bored and move on.

and there's the problem....I'm trying to put those habits behind me and overcome a reputation of being "that guy"...I've been looking to find a woman that I'd be completely contented to devote myself to for almost 2 years now. Haven't had a relationship since november of 2002, and I've been actively trying to alter the way I approach the entire issue. sadly, I've spent the majority of the time chasing the one girl who really knows me--which is probably the problem .

[zxello]

try just NOT doing those things = P

[xray21]

I feel you man..

I get the friends that fall in love with me or girls i meet then after I sleep with them. I bail out.. Not on purpose but somthing about the chase.. That or im the guy they always wanted and it scares the shit out of them so they push me away and then want me back two months later but I turned the ass hole switch back on and Im a dick to them..

[Eugeni]

Maybe you need a woman that handles you, a woman that surprises you instead of you surprising her. dunno

[dogmeat4u]

what a boring thread.

treat them like they dont want to be treated. Women deep down in their hearts like bad boys. This is proven time and time again.