Whoa now.......hmmmmmm - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

pan6467 · 09-28-2005, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

Churches are not here to give handouts to people in need. That is not their purpose. their purpose is to prove a place of worship for God and spread the good news. Humanitarian relief is something they choose to do because they have compasion but to say thats the reason the church was made is foolish.

Those churches that did not nor ever wish to help are not forced to. If they choose to believe that their sole purpose is to spread the Word and not contribute in any other way, that is their right.

But, I still see no need for them to be paid tax dollars for it.

I just feel if a church is more worried about replacing carpeting and whatever, as the donations from across the country flow in at enormous amounts, then they are in the wrong business.

As for the churches that opened their doors, gave all they could and refuse to take government monies..... those are the ones that need to be praised for those are the ones that in this case truly know what their purpose, mission and faith preach.

Those that stood watching as people starved, went thirsty and needed help and waited until the government "asked" have to be asked why and what would Jesus think of them.

To me those that take money and had to be asked are no different than the money changers that plagued the temples Jesus refuted.

xepherys · 09-28-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

I said "donations". Compared to Methodist, Baptist and other nationally affiliated churches they recieve far less in donations. As for their Thrift Stores, they do not make as much as people think, by the time overhead (the transportation to centers and some deliver, the washing, fixing and sterilizations that must take place) and payrolls are added.

When I said "plenty" I took into account national donations (as opposed to most churches that only get donation from parishioners... and even then only some... and even then, very rarely the 15% tithe that is the "standard"), the fact that, at least where I've lived (near Detroit and near Phoenix) more than 50% of the thrift stores donations are brought in by the donator, not picked up, and none of the locations near me deliver anything except for furniture, which is not a consistant item for their stores to sell. In fact at least two of the stores near Detroit (Royal Oak and Rochester) do not deliver at all. They're payroll is slim. Their overhead isn't terribly fat either. Even at $2/shirt, the sale of hundreds of shirts a day does them pretty well.

Rekna · 09-28-2005, 10:29 AM

Why do you keep asking what would Jesus think? Jesus would think they were great for having faith to put their finances on the line to help others and glorify his kingdom with no promise of security. Would he turn away people willing to help? I doubt it. Jesus and the apostles lived on donations alone.

pan6467 · 09-28-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xepherys

When I said "plenty" I took into account national donations (as opposed to most churches that only get donation from parishioners... and even then only some... and even then, very rarely the 15% tithe that is the "standard"), the fact that, at least where I've lived (near Detroit and near Phoenix) more than 50% of the thrift stores donations are brought in by the donator, not picked up, and none of the locations near me deliver anything except for furniture, which is not a consistant item for their stores to sell. In fact at least two of the stores near Detroit (Royal Oak and Rochester) do not deliver at all. They're payroll is slim. Their overhead isn't terribly fat either. Even at $2/shirt, the sale of hundreds of shirts a day does them pretty well.

The donations that are "brought in" have to go to the main warehouses, get washed, sterilized, fixed and seperated, then shipped to the stores.

As far as I know and having been told of the processes, at least with the SA they do not take at most stores and put them directly on the rack. They have to take them to the warehouses first.

There are a few stores like one in Mansfield, where they can wash and sterilize and fix the donations at that store.... however that store then ships those products to surrounding stores some as far as Galion, Ashland, Shelby and other surrounding areas. And those items dropped at those stores must go to the Mansfield store to be worked on before they are sold.

Volunteers of America are pretty much the same way.

Again the profit margins are not as great as people may believe as these are treated as businesses and have to maintain the same ethics and regulations as others in the sector.

Anyway, it still does not justify the fact the government feels the need to give millions away to churches and refuse to do so to organizations such as the SA.

Again, I don't believe the SA, which prides itself on self sufficiency, really should take money from the gov't either.

You are most definately opening yourself to bureaucracies and the accusations of corruption and overcharging the reimbursements.

Again, if we offer no interest loans and amnesty on utilities there is less chance of either occuring.

pan6467 · 09-28-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

Why do you keep asking what would Jesus think? Jesus would think they were great for having faith to put their finances on the line to help others and glorify his kingdom with no promise of security. Would he turn away people willing to help? I doubt it. Jesus and the apostles lived on donations alone.

I ask because this is a case where we should ask what Jesus would think and do, since this concerns the places that supposedly teach His teachings. And I say again, those that do not expect a penny from government and gave all they could, are the ones to be praised.... those that go and seek to sell their beliefs for 30 pieces of silver because they do not have faith that they will be taken care of and God will reward them NOT the government should be ashamed.

I do because it is my belief that HE would not take a cent from the government and he would expect his followers to do the same. I obviously am not the only one who believes or feels this way, as I point to this portion and quote from the article:

Quote:

The Rev. Flip Benham, director of Operation Save America, an antiabortion group formerly known as Operation Rescue, said, "Separation of church and state means nothing in a time of disaster; you see immediately what a farce it is."

Benham said that his group has been dispensing food and clothing and that "Bibles and tracts go out with everything we put out." In Mendenhall, La., he said, he preached to evacuees while the mayor directed traffic and the sheriff put inmates from the county jail to work handing out supplies.

Yet Benham said he would never accept a dime from the federal government. "The people have been so generous to give that for us to ask for reimbursement would be like gouging for gas," he said. "That would be a crime against heaven."

Yes, Jesus and the Apostles lived on donations..... NOT taxpayers money.

pan6467 · 09-28-2005, 11:04 AM

And I am sure with donations reaching record highs churches truly NEED government reimbursement....... I'm sure none of the groups listed below will help the churches..... the churches need government to help.

Wonder what the churches are bringing in?

Quote:

Katrina Donations Surge Past $1.3 Billion By The Associated Press
16 minutes ago

Dozens of nonprofit organizations are raising money for short-term relief and long-term recovery in response to Hurricane Katrina, and total donations a month after the disaster have surged past $1.3 billion.

In the aftermath of the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Americans gave charities $2.2 billion — almost half to the American Red Cross. After the South Asian tsunami last December, they donated $1.3 billion.

The latest figures provided by some of the groups responding to Katrina:

_The Red Cross, which focuses on emergency relief, had received $977 million as of Tuesday, almost halfway to its goal of $2 billion, a milestone that would shatter the donations record for the organization set after the Sept. 11 attacks.

_The Salvation Army, which handles both short-term relief and long-term recovery, has received more than $185 million, by far its record for any disaster and more than doubled what it received after the Sept. 11 attacks.

_The Bush-Clinton Katrina Fund, which intends to distribute its donations in consultation with governors of the stricken states, has received more than $100 million.

_America's Second Harvest, which supplies food banks, has collected $18.6 million in cash and nearly $50 million in food products.

_The United Way of America has received about $20 million earmarked for Katrina relief. The agency hopes donors will remain supportive of charities not involved in hurricane relief but which combat poverty and other social problems that Katrina helped draw attention to.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050928/...E0BHNlYwN0bWE-

09-28-2005, 10:29 AM	#43 (permalink)
Rekna Junkie	Why do you keep asking what would Jesus think? Jesus would think they were great for having faith to put their finances on the line to help others and glorify his kingdom with no promise of security. Would he turn away people willing to help? I doubt it. Jesus and the apostles lived on donations alone.