Osama video - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

D Rice · 10-29-2004, 03:50 PM

What do you think the intentions of osama by releasing the video several days before the election? Do you really think he cares who wins?

Mephisto2 · 10-29-2004, 08:41 PM

Personally?

I think he favours Kerry. Why? Because Kerry has gone on record as saying that if he were elected he would plan for eventual disengagement from Iraq.

But that doesn't mean that a vote for Kerry is a vote "for" Bin Laden.

Quite the contrary in my mind. I think a continuation of Bush's policies will mean a continuation of terrorist "resentment", and therefore attacks on the US. Conversely, I think Kerry offers an alternative way forward. Maybe that will mean a softening of US foreign policy and with it a reduction in "resentment". Along with that comes a reduction in terrorist attacks.

That's my "macro-scopic" view anyway.

So yeah, I think he cares who wins. So do I.

Mr Mephisto

SecretMethod70 · 10-29-2004, 09:17 PM

Osama stated in the video that he favors neither candidate. Frankly, I think he's just laughing at us and saying "you think voting for a DIFFERENT person who will still interfere in other people's affairs is going to help you? You people make me laugh."

pan6467 · 10-29-2004, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Osama stated in the video that he favors neither candidate. Frankly, I think he's just laughing at us and saying "you think voting for a DIFFERENT person who will still interfere in other people's affairs is going to help you? You people make me laugh."

I agree. I wish we had a president and government that was about trade and not interfering in other countries business..... especially those that hate us. Isreal and the UN included.

Lebell · 10-29-2004, 10:05 PM

Folks,

The basic issue for these people is the US's support of Israel and the Saudi's as well as our presence in ANY Islamic country.

Kerry isn't going to change any of those things that radically, and certainly not enough for Bin Laden.

bling · 10-29-2004, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto

I think he favours Kerry. Why? Because Kerry has gone on record as saying that if he were elected he would plan for eventual disengagement from Iraq.

And the argument for why he favors Bush:

It is quite clear that Bush intends to attack the Muslim world (whether that be due to control of oil or the religious aspect is irrelevant). That is exactly what Bin Laden wants: a war. Anyone with the fervency of a spiritual leader of martyrs fully believes that their god will win the day. And so he favors the world's super power be led by a like minded individual, or at the least, someone who will engage on that level.

In essence, the victory for Bin Laden is the war, not the removal of injustice.

mml · 10-29-2004, 11:50 PM

I think that Bin Laden is smart enough and well informed enough to realize that U.S. policy in Iraq is going to be basically the same under Bush or Kerry. Certainly there will be differences, but overall, U.S. Mid-East policy will remain Iraeli-centric. He, IMO, is using our election to amplify his message and frankly, it sickens me. I don't think we will ever truly know what Bin Laden's goal was, but I think we can agree that he needs to be (and should already have been) removed.

I think that the real crime is that for the last few days of OUR election,we will be talking about OBL rather that the differences between the two candidates.

tecoyah · 10-30-2004, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mml

I think that the real crime is that for the last few days of OUR election,we will be talking about OBL rather that the differences between the two candidates.

I would agree 100%......but then...this was likely the intent of OBL

roachboy · 10-30-2004, 09:43 AM

two possibilities:
1. bin laden has every interest in another bush term insofar as bush provides him with the best publicity a person in his position could hope for---you want to be the Nightmare of the West?
well if you just tell three friends "i am the Nightmare of the West" then who really cares?
but if you can make the occaisional video and release it and have your status as Nightmare of the West made and remade for you, then hey...
obl and bush need each other.

2. although i do sometimes wonder if bin laden actually exists. sometimes he seems just too easy. there is no informational basis for this...but i do find myself thinking that if bin laden did not exist that someone would have to invent him. his face and occaisional television appearances are central to the whole "war on terror" project. he is a structural necessity, like judas in the gospels.

10-30-2004, 10:00 AM

He wants everything from the disengagement in Iraq to ceasing support of Israel to reparations for Iraq sanctions. America committed blunder after foreign policy blunder. Everywhere. And yet it's essential to continue to do so, or the world will be incredibly angry with you. After wracking my brain for months, I see no way for America to back out of this.

powerclown · 10-30-2004, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mml

Certainly there will be differences, but overall, U.S. Mid-East policy will remain Israeli-centric.

Oil-centric, not Israeli-centric.
Israel is simply a reliable, rational, much needed ally in this resource-critical, fanatic-filled area of the world.

arch13 · 10-31-2004, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerclown

Oil-centric, not Israeli-centric.
Israel is simply a reliable, rational, much needed ally in this resource-critical, fanatic-filled area of the world.

Just becuase the area is resource-critical doesn't mean we have any claim to any of it. Nor do we deserve automatic access to it. We can pay for access by the barrell like everyone else.

I think an unspoken theme in our country right now is resentment towards an area of the world that controls a needed resource, and some have come around to rationalizing that being the US, we have some say in these resources. Conversly, If we cannot deal for them, we should take them.

I'm not saying anyone here is suggesting such things (I hope) but I've already met far to many people who feel that we need to step in and help on the basis that areas resources which we find important.

If you can't tell, I believe in Washington's treaty on nutrality.
Like usual, I'll state that it isn't our job to "stabalize" any area for any reason.

As for Israel, that they are an ally does not mean we come help at all times. They can stand on there own to feet from time to time.

Dragonlich · 10-31-2004, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jconnolly

He wants everything from the disengagement in Iraq to ceasing support of Israel to reparations for Iraq sanctions. America committed blunder after foreign policy blunder. Everywhere. And yet it's essential to continue to do so, or the world will be incredibly angry with you. After wracking my brain for months, I see no way for America to back out of this.

Just a question: why the hell should the US, the West or anyone else listen to what OBL has to say? Perhaps we can negotiate when he and his barbarians become peaceful, and stop blowing us up, but not before.

As for his demands: he wants the US out of Iraq so he and his fundy friends can take over, so that's not gonna happen; he wants the US to stop supporting Israel, so he and his fundy friends can exterminate the Jews, so that's not gonna happen; he wants reperations for Iraq so he can get more fundies to support him, so that's not gonna happen either.

Besides, how do we know he'll stop attacking us when we give in? I'm certain he'll just find another excuse to attack us. He won't stop until *all* his demands are met, and the whole world is united under one Islamic fundy government.

I'd say that if we give in to his demands, the world will become *less* safe than it is now.

DJ Happy · 10-31-2004, 04:14 AM

Interesting supposition there. All baseless of course, but interesting nonetheless.

OBL can't come out and say, "vote for Kerry" or "don't vote for Bush" for two reasons:

1. Who's going to listen to the evil terrorist?

2. Urging Americans to vote for a specific candidate would cheapen his message and turn him into a commercial. He's made it quite clear that he thinks Bush is a moron and that Americans need a change. He doesn't have to say more than that.

And of course, he's reminding Americans what the real "war on terror" is all about. And it's still out there and nowhere near Iraq.

10-29-2004, 03:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
D Rice Tilted	Osama video What do you think the intentions of osama by releasing the video several days before the election? Do you really think he cares who wins?

10-29-2004, 09:17 PM	#3 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Osama stated in the video that he favors neither candidate. Frankly, I think he's just laughing at us and saying "you think voting for a DIFFERENT person who will still interfere in other people's affairs is going to help you? You people make me laugh." __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

10-29-2004, 10:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Folks, The basic issue for these people is the US's support of Israel and the Saudi's as well as our presence in ANY Islamic country. Kerry isn't going to change any of those things that radically, and certainly not enough for Bin Laden. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

10-29-2004, 11:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
mml Adrift Location: Wandering in the Desert of Life	I think that Bin Laden is smart enough and well informed enough to realize that U.S. policy in Iraq is going to be basically the same under Bush or Kerry. Certainly there will be differences, but overall, U.S. Mid-East policy will remain Iraeli-centric. He, IMO, is using our election to amplify his message and frankly, it sickens me. I don't think we will ever truly know what Bin Laden's goal was, but I think we can agree that he needs to be (and should already have been) removed. I think that the real crime is that for the last few days of OUR election,we will be talking about OBL rather that the differences between the two candidates. __________________ Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." -Douglas Adams

10-30-2004, 09:43 AM	#9 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	two possibilities: 1. bin laden has every interest in another bush term insofar as bush provides him with the best publicity a person in his position could hope for---you want to be the Nightmare of the West? well if you just tell three friends "i am the Nightmare of the West" then who really cares? but if you can make the occaisional video and release it and have your status as Nightmare of the West made and remade for you, then hey... obl and bush need each other. 2. although i do sometimes wonder if bin laden actually exists. sometimes he seems just too easy. there is no informational basis for this...but i do find myself thinking that if bin laden did not exist that someone would have to invent him. his face and occaisional television appearances are central to the whole "war on terror" project. he is a structural necessity, like judas in the gospels. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

10-29-2004, 08:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
Mephisto2 Junkie	Personally? I think he favours Kerry. Why? Because Kerry has gone on record as saying that if he were elected he would plan for eventual disengagement from Iraq. But that doesn't mean that a vote for Kerry is a vote "for" Bin Laden. Quite the contrary in my mind. I think a continuation of Bush's policies will mean a continuation of terrorist "resentment", and therefore attacks on the US. Conversely, I think Kerry offers an alternative way forward. Maybe that will mean a softening of US foreign policy and with it a reduction in "resentment". Along with that comes a reduction in terrorist attacks. That's my "macro-scopic" view anyway. So yeah, I think he cares who wins. So do I. Mr Mephisto

10-30-2004, 10:00 AM	#10 (permalink)
jconnolly Guest	He wants everything from the disengagement in Iraq to ceasing support of Israel to reparations for Iraq sanctions. America committed blunder after foreign policy blunder. Everywhere. And yet it's essential to continue to do so, or the world will be incredibly angry with you. After wracking my brain for months, I see no way for America to back out of this.

10-31-2004, 04:14 AM	#14 (permalink)
DJ Happy Psycho	Interesting supposition there. All baseless of course, but interesting nonetheless. OBL can't come out and say, "vote for Kerry" or "don't vote for Bush" for two reasons: 1. Who's going to listen to the evil terrorist? 2. Urging Americans to vote for a specific candidate would cheapen his message and turn him into a commercial. He's made it quite clear that he thinks Bush is a moron and that Americans need a change. He doesn't have to say more than that. And of course, he's reminding Americans what the real "war on terror" is all about. And it's still out there and nowhere near Iraq.