The Punishments in 'To Catch a Predator'
 

Hi! I like to watch a show called 'To Catch a Predator' in which they catch potential people that might have sex with a person who is younger than the age of consent. It is fun and one of my favorite shows on TV. I am mostly on the predators side because my political opinion is an age of consent on 13 years old. When it is 12 years old, then I am on the police side, mostly.

However, I must ask a question. What are the normal punishments for these people? I know that it is different in different states but is it possible to sit in jail for years for contacting a 15-year old? I am pretty interested in this.

Another (this time political) question I have is this: What is the moral philosophy you should use when seting an age of consent? In Spain, it is 13 and it seems to work there. Therefore, I'm pro-13. I want it as liberal as possible. Spain is a normal western world country and I trust Spain on that issue. What do you think?

Now I found this so my first question is pretty uneccesary to answer, I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of...#United_States

Usually? Prison, then rape.

Child molesters aren't well respected when locked up, friendo.

Age of consent? 18 seems fine. Have you met a 15 year old girl? They're a mess.

13 is a good age of consent? Hell my daughter is 14 and she can never make up her mind about anything, and thats a good age to trust them to decide about sex?

Glad I dont live in Spain

So if someone asked her on the internet if he wanted to have sex with her, do you think she would have said yes? I don't think so.

Jocke, just a bit of friendly advice: you probably don't know more about Shani's daughter than she does.

When I was 13 I fucked everything that moved.

And those girls are traumatized for life?

BTW, what age is extremely sick if you think that should be the age of consent? Do you think you are very sick in the head if you think that 17 is okay? 16? 15? 14? 13?

Only the first 3 or 4. The rest are ruined for life because they'll never be as happy again. :thumbsup:

1/2 + 7

Thus, the oldest non creepy 17 year old partner is 20, the oldest non-creepy 16 year old partner is 18, the oldest non-creepy 15 year old partner is 16, and 14 year olds should be fucking themselves or nobody.

Not gonna lie, by the way...your smirky 20-something picture with a beer trying to convince me it's perfectly normal to want to bone someone born in 1995 is CREEPING ME RIGHT THE FUCK OUT.

24/2 + 7 = 19. Maybe, but she'd have to be a pretty mature 19 year old. Still, probably a good rule unless you're an 80 year old fucking a 47 year old. No one wants to know about that shit.
All sorts of agreed. :expressionless:

I can without doubt say that when I was 13, I would have sex with a 20-year old if she looked nice and I would be able to say no if I didn't want to.

On that picture, I'm 18 or 19. Now I'm 19. I wouldn't have sex with a 15 year old or younger. It is legal here to have sex with a 15 year old but maybe it is a liiittle taboo. 16 is fine though.

Those who wants to have sex with 13 year olds for example exist but I'm not one of them. I'm not gay either but I defend gay rights.

This is an interesting philosophical discussion and I think we should continue it without throwing insults at eachother. I did not create this controversial topic to provoke or start a fight.

Hahah.. I thought the same thing.

That said, I'm not sure a public forum is somewhere I'd want to state my position on this. Eighteen is fine for me.

Where are the Moderators when one is needed? They close threads and ban members for the strangest reasons but are ok with old members insinuating that someone looks like a child molester?

Well fortunately I am one of those parents that does not let their child online without me sitting right there watching what she is doing and that hasnt happened yet. I have also talked to her about this sort of thing and we have watched that show together and she knows that anyone trying to talk to her that way is someone she should block immediately.

All Im saying is...she cant decide on simple things without changing her mind 12 times.....she is at NO age to be deciding on sex, thats why I think any place that has 13 as the age of consent is not someplace I would want to bringing up my child

Hehe, it's okay. I believe in their freedom of speech.

http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/fs12/300...y_tyrannus.jpg
:confused:

Jocke, the age of consent varies from state to state in the US. In Tennessee, it used to be (may still be for all I know) for a 16 year old to have sex with someone 21 or under. It was also legal for a 14 year old to have sex with someone as old as 16. That's not necessarily the way it is in every state, but for someone over 21, the general rule of thumb is that the other party has to be at least 18.

To answer your question from you OP, the punishments vary from state to state, but you're almost certainly looking at a few years in jail. Yes, even if the kid is 15.

The US (and most of the Western World) has drawn a series of lines of demarkation between adults and children. There are several, but the big ones are 16, 18 and 21 for various priveledges and punishments. These lines have to be drawn somewhere, or we'd risk having drunk children driving around with guns drawn on their way to vote Barney the Dinosaur into office. Other countries draw the lines in different spots, but make no mistake that they're drawn.

Do I necessarily think that 18 is the perfect age for every child? No. Do I think it's a good average? Maybe. Do I think that anyone over 18 hooking up with a 13 or 14 year old is sick and wrong? Oh yeah.

If that's what you want to discuss, I'm game.

Playing devil's advocate, who's to say that these are the appropriate places to draw the necessary lines? The problem with arbitrary standards is that they attempt to codify a process that is highly individual. Some kids are like Shanifaye's at 14. Some are that way at 16. But what about a 15 year old who is emotionally and physically mature past the average for her (or his) age? It certainly happens. And how can we really draw a fixed line on this? It does seem a bit absurd that a girl who is a week away from her 18th birthday is jailbait, whereas that same girl a mere week later is fine.

I sometimes wonder if children would mature faster emotionally if they weren't coddled so much. Does a 16 year old need to be protected because she's not emotionally mature, or is she emotionally immature because she's so over-protected? Is there another side to this coin?

I'll go one farther. The girl goes to bed one night illegal and wakes up the next legal. Or she can stay up late, walk out of the room and walk back in legal. It's definitely weird.

That said, I don't see any alternative. If you're going to protect the kids that aren't ready, you've got to hold back the kids that are. It's one of the things I actually like about the Tennessee system. It acknowledges that kids will have sex, but it makes sure that they're not having sex with adults, just people who are within a reasonable age. A 17-year old can have sex with a 19-year old, for instance. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with the same 17-year old having sex with a 50-year old. There is an inherent problem in that dynamic.

I have never ever ever met a mature 15-year-old. I've met plenty of 15-year-olds who think they're mature, but never one who actually is.

Mature isn't a boolean argument. Are there 15 year olds out there more mature than the average 17 or even 18 year olds? I would contend that there are, although they're admittedly quite rare.

I'm not sure I see your point there. I will agree that there does need to be some division, but I don't understand how a 50 year old having sex with a 17 year old is any different from a 19 year old having sex with a 17 year old (besides the visceral 'ew' factor). If we're going to acknowledge that a 17 year old is mature enough to make the decision to have sex, how does the age of the other party factor into it?

It's pretty interesting when one thing which is legal in one country gives like 5 years in another country. This is not so interesting when it comes to saudi arabia in which they stone people for shit things or something like that but I mean normal countries which we can relate to. Yes, I see it as "we and them".

Different countries/cultures have different values. That simple.

My dad's boss is from England, and when he and his family moved tot he US for good, I helped them move from their temporary apartment to a house.

When I got there on the day I was helping, first thing they said was that I could have a beer from the fridge. I said that I was only 18, and they asked why that mattered. They were floored when I told them the legal drinking age is 21.

(Note: no comments on the fact that I turned down beer at 18 please :p)

Not quite as extreme as the age-of-consent issue (let alone the "stoning" :D), but it is still the same point.

Well, yeah but I think that sex is as dangerous for all ages all over the world. I think the limit is perfect at 13 in all countries. When it comes to alcohol, it should be different in different countries. I think different limits are very important.

That's remarkably inconsistent. Drinking magically requires more parental supervision than sex?

I was watching a show the other night on the Discovery Channel "Taboo" is was covering the topic of child marriages in India. It is not uncommon (as i learned) for children to get married as early as seven years old. That seems pretty distorted to me, but venders selling live puppies on the street for consumption (common in China) seems distorted to me. Jocke you have explained your view pretty well, but when you say you are on the side of the predators, can you explain that? I dont want too put words in your mouth.

Well, the central question is: "Why is there an age of consent?" There are two lines of thought:

o People below a certain age are, in general, not mature enough to engage in sex. They aren't capable of making a rational decision about it, so we should prohibit it by law to discourage it.

- Personally, I think this sort of control should mostly fall under parental control, but, under a certain low age(13), parents allowing their children to engage in sexual activity probably need the axe.

o Second, an older person who is more mature and experienced can easily have undue influence over a younger person. IE, older guys have more experience talking the panties off of girls, and are good at talking girls into things they might later regret. More immature people need to be protected by law from older people who may prey on them.

- I agree with this concept quite a bit more. While people mature at different ages, you have to pick a standard. Preferably one that's easy for a horny, possibly slightly intoxicated, guy to understand. "if $age < 18 then $jailbait = True" is a pretty good one. If you don't have a hard-and-fast rule, you either have to let adults sleep with children, or you end up with nebulous debates in court, which is never a good thing.

Is it sad that all I got out of your post robot is that you like PHP too much? :)

Ew, just ew!
YoOu think it's ok for someone old enough to be a parent to the other to be screwing with them?
If so, give me a call, I'll be in Tennessee all weekend :D

PHP ~*sucks*~.

That was pseudo-perl, thank you very much. :-)

Hmmm ... I was 22 when I met the person who became my wife. She was 17 at the time ... although I didn't know it for a while. She was not living with her parents.

I'll let her know that our relationship was "creepy."

BTW ... we're still married and I'm 39 now.

The problem here is sort of relative to the society in which we live. Sex is taboo here. If we were more honest about it and talked to our children at an early enough age then we wouldn't have most of the messes we have.

Is a 13-year-old person old enough to have sex? Some might be--depending on how they were raised. I've known some very mature 13-year-olds. Some of them had been sexually active and handled it quite well.

Is a 23-year-old person old enough to have sex? Some probably aren't--depending on how they were raised. I've known some very immature 23-year-olds. Some of them handled the whole sex thing like it was the end of the world.

Now, in order for us to have a civilized society, we have to have certain rules. I don't agree with all of the rules, but I live by them until I can work to change them. Will I work to change age-of-consent laws? No. I have no problem with them except in certain very extreme cases (17-year-olds going to jail for getting a BJ from a 15-year-old f'rinstance).

I also think shows like "To Catch a Predator" should be cancelled. I'm all for free speech (100% for it in fact) ... but these shows are just hideous. Have you ever noticed how <i><b>mean</i></b> American television is? Everyone is just so mean ... but that's a different topic for a different thread.

Well, I continue to see 17-year-old girls who are very physically attractive. I also see 50-year-old+ women who are very physically attractive. Sucks to be me I guess.

Where in Tennessee did you say you were staying? :p

The other point is that this 18 year old limit wasn't always the case in the US. Maybe because people are living longer and are more successful if they put off having kids, it has become a societal norm. But my Grandparents met and started dating at 14 or 15 and lived their entire lives together.

The issue of consent and kind of the subject of this post was treated rather extensively in this thread: Linky
Ages of consent are legal fictions and by definition are not supposed to reflect reality but give give a parameter that rule everyone based on what the legislator at the moment of writing the law considered to be "normal". That's how in the US they very oddly came to decide that at 18 years you're able to kill people in a war and have sex on camera for the entire world to watch it but you can't have a beer until you are 21, cause you're not mature enough at 18 to control your alcoholic impulses, stupid if you ask me, but that's the way it is and I think that's what it should all come to in the end. As long as the law is one, you must obey it or attain to the consequences. You don't agree on what the law says? Try to change it, there are many ways to do so, but if you break it, whether it seems stupid or not to you, you will have to pay.

I didn't say that. I said that for example legal drinking ages or alcohol monoply may vary from country to country but age of consent shouldbe the same everywhere.

I don't think it is ethically wrong to have sex with a 13-year old or older if it is consenting.

Why wouldn't it? As long as the younger isn't to young.

There's that visceral reaction I mentioned.

I did say I was doing the whole devil's advocate thing. I'm making arguments for some things I don't necessarily agree with, based on the premise that a balanced discussion is better than one person defending himself against everyone else. It's more productive this way, dig?

If you want to know what I really believe, I figure mostly what's been said; age-of-consent laws aren't necessarily perfect but they do serve a useful function. It's an imperfect solution to a complex problem. Most complex problems don't have perfect solutions and I'm okay with that.

And yet, I still don't see the difference. If we're going to say that a 17 year old is old enough and mature enough to have sex, the unspoken assumption that goes along with that is that said 17 year old is wise enough to make informed decisions on the matter. If we take that as granted, then, how does the age of the partner factor into it?

Girls older than 17 can still be taken advantage of and there are plenty of girls younger than that who are smart enough not to fall fo any 'tricks.' And what about the boys?

See, this is just it. People are trained by the society that they live in regarding what's right and wrong. We tend to think that a 50 year old having sex with a 17 year old is wrong, because that's what we've been told. This, in turn, becomes so ingrained that it leads to an instant visceral reaction to any such situation. Regardless of that, I'm still not sure I understand why it's wrong. Is it somehow better for a young woman if she gets pregnant from/catches an STD from/regrets having sex with a 19 year old than if it's a 30 year old? The potential consequences here are the same. We trust both parties to make an educated decision on the matter. So where does age figure in?

If we take an average sampling of youths aged 13 to 17 and attempt to gauge how many of them are emotionally and mentally prepared to enter into a sexual relationship with a partner, I imagine the result would be somewhat linear, with a higher number being ready as we get to the older individuals. The appropriate age of consent, I would imagine, is the age at which the majority of individuals are capable of handling the emotional (and often physiological) consequences of having sex. My uneducated guess would put that somewhere between 16 and 18, but who knows? Maybe most 15 year olds are wiser to the ways of the world than we give them credit for.

(Now, about that phone call...)

I agree with the overall "meaness" shows have become. The whole backstab your peers to win at any cost theme is absolutely terrible and scary of it potential reflectiveness of our society.

With "to Catch a Predator" I really did even know it was an ongoing show. I thought it was just one special a journist had done (forgot which one 60 min, Nightline, etc). The one I did see showed men who had been conversing with what they thought was a 13 y/o girl online, ask if their parents were going to be home, and drive out to their house. These guys were showing up with drugs, alcohol, pockets full of condoms, one guy even stripped nude as soon as he walked in the door. Three of them had children they left in the car. I cant help but think these guys were scumbags. Perhaps entrapment (if thats what this was) is bad, I cant say that nationally humiliting these people was bad thing (except for the pain it may have cause their families).

Maybe younger than 17 is accpetable WITH PARENTAL CONSENT, or if the teenager is one of the cases that legally sperated themselves from their parents, and lives on their own. In this area I think having a standard is fine as long as there is potential to intermittently review instances on a case by case basis with a reasonable perspective.

In the same theme of what Maritan is stating; if an adult is considered 18 then who is considered more of a child molester for persuing and engaging sexual acts with a 13 y/o the 18, 30, or 50 year old man? Btoom line the guys on that show never mentioned if it was OK with the parents, infact they were sneaky about it. First I would hope to have educated my daughter enough not to do that kind of action online, secondly perhaps stings like this saves lives. Because if I caught a man doing that with a child of mine< I would probaly end his life and end up in jail myself.

There's a flip side of an argument I've never seen before, it's always been "defending gay rights is a slippery slope to allowing pedophilia."
If you think something is strange, you can always ask one of us. The worst that can happen is that we say it's none of your business.
The medical community has concluded based on years of observation that during certain stages in development, sexual activity can cause long-term or irreparable psychological harm. Putting the age of consent at 18 establishes a bit of a buffer zone; the majority of people who have reached age 18 are either mature enough to make decisions about their sexual actions, or at least developed enough that they will not suffer psychological harm. There are frequently "Romeo and Juliet laws" that allow for a certain age difference across or below the 18 line because during mid-to-late adolescence, sexual activity with those of approximately the same age is not generally harmful while sex between someone in that age group and someone significantly older is highly likely to be coercive or otherwise harmful.
Stop nerding up the thread, nerds :p

Am I completely lost? Anyone else, does this somehow make sense?

None at all.

I personally have never been to jail, but Ive known a few people who have, plus my sister is a prison warden (at Highpoint, a men's prison) - so Im not totally ignorant: and I've never heard of anyone getting raped in jail.

Im sure it happens, but I think it is a bit of a myth that it is so widespread. My uncle spent a lot of time inside, and he said nothing like that ever happened to him.

And I am not in favour of child molestation of course, but the self righteousness of the people who make this shows is a hideous thing in itself.

Nope, not one bit. I really don't get why having different ages for drinking is cool but different ages when it comes to sex is a no no.

Dude...you have officially creeped me out...

This is true in the US as well as England. It's mostly a myth to scare people (plus it makes for entertaining TV and movies.)

This kind of intolerance is very common in Sweden and that is one reason I maybe will move to the Netherlands.

As a high school guy who knows a lot of girls, I'm gonna have second that one. High school girls, especially freshmen and sophomores, are fucked up to an extreme. They don't know what they want, and they don't have the maturity to know what's best for them.

And Jocke, I do understand where you're coming from, I really do, but 13?! They'd be in the 8th or 9th grade, do you seriously remember girls from that time making smart choices?

Intolerance? Jesus tittyfuck man! If intolerant means not believing 13 year old should have sex (Because they're fucking 13) then yes, I guess I am intolerant.

Why should they not have sex you say? Well, simply because a 13 year old is pretty much on the same level as a labrador. They only drool less.

But fine, if you want to leave our intolerant prepubescent sex hating country by all means do.

I guess - the only objective guide that is available in making these laws is the relative maturity, physical and mental, of the young people involved.

Now obviously... people keep maturing past 18. But I'm sure that it would be possible to graph various attributes (sounds like a joke eh, but I'm serious) and found cut-off points, ie where most development is 'complete'.

I mean to say... to me, a 25yr old is immature. But I'm sure that the rate of learning and (cough) development is much slower between 18 and 25, for example, than 11 and 18.

Fact is though.... In many countries the age is probably 18, purely and simply because that is the legal age for everything else.

My personal view? I think 18 is a fair age of consent. However I strongly support these so called 'romeo/juliet' laws. You cannot on one hand say that a child is too young to consent, but old enough to know better (and hence be guilty of a sex crime).

I have problems with that show, if only because they are causing a huge scare about a problem that is very small.

I wish I still had the article I read that showed how few actual incidents of online sexual predator crimes there are year to year. Add in that over 50% of the arrests made are for predators accidentally talking to undercover police online instead of teenagers, and the point grows stronger. I think they said that the # of actual adult-to-teenager predatory arrests is under 500 per year.

The TV show makes you think that tens of thousands of predators are out there every night. WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN????

Yeah and it makes parents think that if their 12-year old daughter chats with a 40-year old who says he wants to have sex with her, she will agree to it. :lol:

The age of consent in Netherlands is 16, I am not sure I understand your reason for wanting to move there.

There are many reasons to move to somewhere else, but I have never heard someone give such a reason as you have alluded to.

That's true but the attitude towards reformers is totally different.

The issue for me in this whole 'age of consent' debate is that very few men over the age of 25 would pursue a relationship with a girl under the age of 18 for anything other than casual sex. They're not looking to marry them or to really date them. I'm not comfortable with young girls being the target of casual sex by grown men. That is the icky part - for me.

Therefore I am much more comfortable with laws based on an age difference, for example, an 18-year-old dating a 15-year-old is much more likely to result in a real relationship than a 40-year-old and a 15-year-old.

And I would be comfortable with a national age of consent at 17.

But it doesn't matter if it doesn't result in a real relationship. Maybe they just want to have sex with eachother and why ban that?

I'm not sure why you want so badly to oversimplify this issue. What is simple to know and understand is the part that emotional maturity plays in cultivating a healthy sex life. Maturity and emotional maturity being two different things. I can't say that I've ever known a girl under the age of 17 who has been emotionally ready to handle casual sex and I really see no reason to encourage it.

Real relationships is the determining factor here? And just how do you know whether or not it's going to develop into a "real relationship?"

I'm sorry I've read through all your arguments on this matter and they make about as much sense as a mule in a four star restaurant and seemingly just as stubborn.

Bottom line- adults should not be engaging in sexual relations with children, and yes teenagers are children.

I'm getting the feeling from reading your posts you have a thing for really young people, if so seek help before you end up seriously damaging an innocent person.

It is your message that doesn't make sense. In the way you are arguing, it seems like you should agree with me. "Real relationships is the determining factor here? And just how do you know whether or not it's going to develop into a "real relationship?"" I agree... :orly:

I post "Bottom line- adults should not be engaging in sexual relations with children, and yes teenagers are children."

and you post

"In the way you are arguing, it seems like you should agree with me."

And I'm the one not making any sense?

Seek help.

I'm done here.

I personally think that anyone who feels that sex with a 13-year-old is ok is somewhat lacking in maturity. If that lack of maturity is because they are 15, then that is perhaps excusable, but if they are much older than that, then questions have to be asked; if their PREFERENCE is 13-year-olds, then SERIOUS questions have to be asked. I'd start with why they'd prefer someone that much younger when there are so many prospective partners available who are closer in age.

I teach at an all-girls' high school, and IMO very few of them (including those up to 16-17) have the emotional maturity to be having sex safely - and by safely I don't just mean condoms. I also think that the educational system is afraid of engaging in real discussion with young people about sex beyond biology and prevention of pregnancy and disease, which is possibly contributing to this lack of maturity.

One could argue that this has always been the case to some extent, but exposure to sex is higher than ever these days, and it is happening at a younger age. Children are more exposed and influenced by the media than ever, and of course sex is very much glamourised in the media. I think that overall this does not lead to a balanced and mature view on sex and all its consequences. It also doesn't help that most adults aren't very clued up on sexual matters either (TFP being a somewhat skewed sample).

Yeah, I'm lost too. I can't get my ... around it.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a13...3/23209126.jpg

Without taking a stance on this topic, I do just find it interesting that humans are the only creatures out there that, even though nature says they body is ready to go, still declare it off limets. Also, the 18 thing is a rather recent development in human history. Used to be they were married off soon as they started bleeding every month. Could it be this is only an issue because someone desided to make it so and everyone else just went along with it without asking why?

Used to be girls didn't require an education. The USA used to belong to the Indians. Used to be a lot of things.

Evolution, civilization, growth, industrialization and changing times.

Yeah yeah so I have three daughters. Put on a mother's shoes for a moment. Would you feel comfortable with a 40-year old trying to seduce your 15 year old daughter just because she's physically mature? Or maybe it's because she's fresh and unspoiled? :nono:

On the other hand, I do feel our mores are far behind Europe when it comes to the human body. Breastfeeding and nudity are so taboo in this country (a la the Janet Jackson Superbowl fiasco) which is positively ludicrous.

I think kids have so much to contend with and so many images (I've been reading up on Culture Jamming :D ) to live up to that they don't know who they are until they're much older now. They have access to information but don't really comprehend it all yet.

We used to die at 45 on average as well.

Our civilization in the west has basically extended childhood, well past 'bleeding time'.

Also this is a case of where whats best for the species need not be what best for the individual. Reproduction early and often was important when childbearing years were so short and death by childbirth so frequent. Now we have women in their 40's having healthy children where they used to be grandmothers at that age.

Likewise it seems many, due to the diets etc, are reaching sexual maturity earlier than they used to.

So I have no problem with 18 being the age of consent.

Is this the proper time to start citing the Old Testament for the way things used to be? Used to be a time when I could buy any of you and sell you as chattel. Used to be a time I could make you build me a pyramid. Used to be a time when I could kill you for crossing yourself with two fingers instead of three and still feel assured of my place in Heaven.

The way things used to be isn't really relavent to today.

who the hell would want to have sex with a 15 year old girl? give me a woman who knows what she's doing, thanks

As the guy who went to medical school, can you confirm or deny that what I posted and keep quoting is a valid statement?

I can't say without qualification that this is true or not. I do agree with it, I do believe it, I think it ties in well with what interests me in the evolution of sex, but I haven't looked at such studies or their validity.

Wow, I agree with Ustwo. Could someone check if hell has frozen over?

I doubt that two 15 year olds having sex would cause any permanent damage to any of them (And I'm saying this without having anything to back it up, just makes sense to me), but a 30-40 year old having sex with someone that young?

Completely disregarding the yuk-factor (Since I don't see banning something just because I might find it disgusting a good idea), being in your early teens is a sensitive time, and I do think that a lot of kids that age are simply not mature enough realize the long term effects ones decisions might have. I would consider whether to fuck someone your dads age a pretty important decision, but maybe that's just me...

Why would I seek help? I don't understand this attitude that is like: "Either you want to cut off the genitals of the pedophiles or you are a pedophile yourself."

I think if MSD wants to continue reposting an official stance from the medical community, he should at least provide some references to peer reviewed journals making such a ludicrous claim.

To Ustwo's credit, at least he said he's never seen such a study or been able to assess its validity...even though he personally believes the claim to be true.


Right on the face of it, there is nothing that indicates the medical community thinks "18" has any special developmental significance. In terms of decision making process centers in the brain, they aren't well developed until 25...so if it were due to physiology then we'd have to change our age limits far beyond what people would consider appropriate. I'm talking about sex, driving, drinking, voting, and etc. to bring current age limit legislation on various life consequence decisions in line with what modern science understands about the human brain and human development (which isn't much, btw).


Jocke, if you are interested in an enlightened position on sex between minors and adults, there is at least one country which doesn't come to mind at the moment that has established a tribunal where partners can come before a magistrate and "show" the nature of their consensual relationship and if successful may proceed with their relationship on a sexual level.


What you will find is that many people are uncomfortable about this subject. But where you will find support for the position that age of consent laws are barbaric and fundamentally unfair would be in modern feminist literature, for one. Nearly all laws assume the young female is the one absent the ability to make choices (and you see that fairly deep cultural belief articulated in many posts against you). Young men are often celebrated by their fathers and friends when they cross the sexual threshhold. That is, unless it's with another male. And despite how "ew'd" people claim to be about the topic, the name of the porn game is to make young actresses and models appear as young as possible. Some of the most popular threads in the sexuality section appear to be pre-pubescent teens or barely legal children ready and willing for sex. The irony is that since it's legal, it's ok for older men (predominantly) to leer and masturbate at these children while insulting you for voicing the non-wrongness of it out loud.

You will also find that not many people would be offended by say a MILF having lesbian sex with a "Barely Legal" or shaving the pubic hair off an asian female made to look like she's 16 (or younger) in a photo shoot. In Japan, it's popular to buy "school girl" panties from vending machines.

So I think you're broaching a difficult and controversial topic and kudos for keeping a level head when people can't maintain their composure in light of the gravity of the subject matter.

In terms to one of your main questions, there are a number of extremely serious offenses that are coming out of these types of offenses. Almost all states now will label these men as sex offenders and make some type of public availability to their names and addresses. Mandatory minimums are being passes in nearly all states currently due to the politization of the topic. Life sentences. Our supreme court just recently put some common sense back into the legal stream of consciousness by rejecting death penalties for sexual crimes against children.

It's definately something that needs to be discussed and thought about.

This one time, at band camp...

It's an interesting topic, even if creepy at times. All through my 20's, I was hit on by girls age 13+. Most of the time, my reaction was, "what the hell is wrong with you?" In one case, the 1/2+7 rule applied, so, lucky me.

Regional differences apply. I grew up in the rural south, and there was always a group of girls at my high school dating guys in their 30's (especially if they had a totally rad Camaro). When I lived in Kansas, guys outnumbered women 2-1 in the western part of the state. Out of neccesity, 30 to 40 year old farmers would match up with girls in their late teens. Kansas, by the way, ranks 5th in the nation for age related sex crimes. It's been brushed under the rug until Carla Stoveall became AG.

For the record, I am married to somebody born on the exact same day as me, so I'm not a perv, or at least that kind of perv.

1/2+7 rule?

Half your age plus seven is an appropriate partner. If you're 40, you can date a 27 year old (40/2 = 20 + 7 = 27) without it being creepy.

You said what was in my mind better than I could, so I'll just quote you and say, "nice post."

Never heard of it. So, it's not a legal thing, just a social norm?

Personally (I'm 45) if some one in their twenties shows interest it kind of creeps me out. Part of that could be having a duaghter in her 20's and some of that could be working with sex offenders in a group setting (every Thursday night for 5 years or so, I took a transfer mainly/partly(?) due to this.)

So I guess I'd be good if she was 29 1/2, but I really would rather she be 35+

They need to bring that show back but fill it with female middle school teachers who think they're going to a house to bang one of their students

Am I the only one that thinks it's fucked up that the MS teacher in Fl only basically only got probation? Think it was five years probation and some house arrest. Granted she was hot and I'd have done her in MS too. But if some "hot" male teacher got caught banging his female student he'd be grabbing his ankles in the prison shower for the next 10-15 years.

I tried to read as far as i could of this disturbing thread. The whole time shaking my head. I'm a Paralegal and i'm back in school studying criminal justice and in one of my crim classes we has spent out of the 3 hours of this class on the subject of that crapass show and the website that participates in the stings to lure these schmucks to the house. I think that anyone foolish enough to unzip their pants and take a 13 year old is a dumbass. I detest shows like that that they to open the eyes so small minded fools into believing that this type of crime is the norm. Unfortunately, this type of crime get more publicize because The State needs to make an example of one loser to scare the future pedophiles from committing this type of crime. It's the reason why Magan's Law has become a tool to punish pedophiles ( for those that need to reference Megan's Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia )

And I don't mean to single you out Jocke but it's single minded people like yourself that neglect to realize that in this world to let a 13 left to decide for themselves whether they should spread their legs or bend over and let someone take them. Immoral for someone older that know right from wrong knows what they are doing is illegal and could get caught. For that person to wear the scarlet letter of being forever known as a pedophile and unfortunately the cost one pays for committing such a haneness crime. And it is punishable in every country, state etc. it does matter where you live this crime is global. example here are a few sites

Child abuse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.cesdip.org/IMG/pdf/PI_03_1996.pdf

I, personal don't believe that a 12 or 13 can truly understand that having sex comes with a lot of baggage that a child that age can't handle . What i mean by this. Most children that are sexual active right now are out in the world looking for someone that will love them because they're not getting that type of feeling at home from their parents. NO 13 OLD YEAR IS ready to make such adult decisions. I repeat no CHILD should be making babies while they're themselves have to ask their parents to drive them places or begging for money because no one hires a 13. I had recently caught myself watching to episodes of the Maury show( and I know not the best example) . the show as I see it, is hilarious but also tragic because first eppie I watched was about wild teen girls and the first thought that came to mind were all these girls were having unprotected sex half of them could care less if they end up pregnant or with an STD or even H.I.V. And thats the one thing no one here mentioned. Which I find funny. When we were all young just dreamers with this mind set that the world is ours for the conquering could all disappear into thin air. The other message I got from seeing those young girls act that way was for attention. Especially the one girl that was 14 wants to have a baby thinking that baby will instantly love her. How sad? Can I ask for those who are parents isn't the most important thing for your children being happy health and some what blind to reality and just focus on their school work, friends and what college or career they want when they reach high school. Not about whether to change a diaper or having to be the main provider because the "father" denies paternity test to prove it. As much as we all poke fun at the women the end up on the show for the millionth time just wanting their child to know that he/she has both parents in the world.
as porky pig would say thaaaattttt'ssssss alllll folks!!!

p.s if no one has picked it up i had for a year researched and studied abuse :)

I don't have one solid source for that. I'm basically reiterating what a psychiatrist said when this discussion happened elsewhere. If you want sources, I'll dig up some published studies and articles from respectable sources when I have time during the next few days.