Yet Another Hell Post - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

virus · 08-18-2003, 08:33 PM

hell is the ultimate show-stopper argument for any religious discussion with evangelical christians. my understanding is that it was bad translation and modern mythology. is that it in a nutshell?

it's certainly not a jewish concept, yet peter who was certainly a jew discusses it in his letters. any ideas where i can find research material on this subject?

this isn't a "what do you think hell is" post, but there are a few good ones on this board from last month.

chavos · 08-18-2003, 08:57 PM

hell, and heaven for that matter, starts as an idea in jewish scripture with the book of daniel. this is a late addition, about a century and a half before christ...and was not universally accepted. note the reaction of the sadducees to the resurrection talk in the gospels. Mark 10 for reference...though there are others.

Many claim that it is an import from other religions, specifically a Judeo-Greco hybrid, taking Plato's immortality of the Soul, and mixing it with exodus theology on the justice of YHWH. That's certainly possible, though it's hard to prove.

So, to research this...start with Daniel. Chapter 12, to be specific. i've got a reading list from when i took a course on the text, so PM me if you'd like that. For Pauline theology, i reccomend any work by Calvin J. Roetzel...

I don't think you can dismiss NT references to hell as mistranslation...it's pretty clear that the idea is beign discussed. it may be intended as metaphor, or fact...that's less clear. OT is a different story. i personally believe the translation is accurate...that an idea somewhat similar to hell/heaven had developed in some strains of jewish thought by 163 BCE...but there is very, very little context to place it in, so it's a tough call.

08-18-2003, 08:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
virus Tilted Location: NYC	Yet Another Hell Post hell is the ultimate show-stopper argument for any religious discussion with evangelical christians. my understanding is that it was bad translation and modern mythology. is that it in a nutshell? it's certainly not a jewish concept, yet peter who was certainly a jew discusses it in his letters. any ideas where i can find research material on this subject? this isn't a "what do you think hell is" post, but there are a few good ones on this board from last month.

08-18-2003, 08:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
chavos Banned Location: St. Paul, MN	hell, and heaven for that matter, starts as an idea in jewish scripture with the book of daniel. this is a late addition, about a century and a half before christ...and was not universally accepted. note the reaction of the sadducees to the resurrection talk in the gospels. Mark 10 for reference...though there are others. Many claim that it is an import from other religions, specifically a Judeo-Greco hybrid, taking Plato's immortality of the Soul, and mixing it with exodus theology on the justice of YHWH. That's certainly possible, though it's hard to prove. So, to research this...start with Daniel. Chapter 12, to be specific. i've got a reading list from when i took a course on the text, so PM me if you'd like that. For Pauline theology, i reccomend any work by Calvin J. Roetzel... I don't think you can dismiss NT references to hell as mistranslation...it's pretty clear that the idea is beign discussed. it may be intended as metaphor, or fact...that's less clear. OT is a different story. i personally believe the translation is accurate...that an idea somewhat similar to hell/heaven had developed in some strains of jewish thought by 163 BCE...but there is very, very little context to place it in, so it's a tough call.