Faked Asassination on Berg

[Ace_O_Spades]

Now I know this is a touchy subject, this is a total repost from another forum, but I wanted some actual INTELLIGENT response rather than the bullshit that is thrown back at the poster of this at his home forum (GenMay)

*disclaimer*

This was not thought up by me, nor do I take responsibility for what's said here, I simply want to pass it along as I found it interesting to say the least, while his argument does have holes, he does make some valid points.

the video is not shown, nor are there graphic pictures... only mature content.

read on







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By Mike27

http://www.genmay.net/showthread.php?t=354134

First of all, I know this is largely Pit material, but I feel that news of this caliber deserves the increased exposure of the main forum. Please keep replies intelligent, honest, topical, and free of slander against me. Debate the topic, not the person who brought it up.

Sources for all my facts can be found at the bottom, they are labeled according to subject.

That having been said...

Many of you might remember that I started a thread on the day the video was released noting how "convenient" it was that the tape had come out, just as the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal was in full swing. Not only did this take the abuse scandal off of headlines, but it swayed public opinion back against "those fucking Iraqis".

Evidence

1) Most people replied by asserting that the execution occured as retribution to the abuse photos that had surfaced, but you have to ask yourself - do these terrorists, who are clearly capable of brainwashing people to the point where they are willing to kill and be killed for their beliefs, really have no concept of political tact? Here they are, the whole world screaming at the US for hypocrisy and injustice over these pictures, and they perform and publish this execution right in the heat of the scandal. In other words, these masters of brainwashing and spin and deception release a video of a despicable act just as the US, their sworn enemy, is being globally grilled. Does this make sense to you?

2) Second, I wonder what the standard issue chair is at Abu Ghraib prison?

[img]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-05/08/xinsrc_400501100951469170513.jpg{/img]


*cough*

3) Is it not interesting that the wall colour at Abu Ghraib prison is identical to that of the video?

4) Is it not also interesting that Berg is wearing the same orange jumpsuit worn by prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison? Sure, you say, perhaps he was kidnapped directly from the prison (as stupid as this sounds, anyway) - but then can you please explain (7)?

5) Is it also not interesting that the timecodes in the video jump back and forth?

6) Is it also not interesting that Berg did not exhibit any of the convulsions that typically accompany decapitation? http://www.ahsc.arizona.edu/uac/iacuc/rodents/avma.htm I am suggesting here that Berg was already dead when the decapitation occured (which accounts for 5). Before you go calling me crazy, please review the evidence; why did he not exhibit the convulsions that go hand in hand with decapitation (especially such an extended one)?

7) Is it not curious that the US denies contact with Berg, and yet his friends and family insist that he told them he was being held by the US? Huh? Why?

8) Another tape oddity - the men SPEAK RUSSIAN for several seconds. Not only that, but they speak Arabic with Russian accents. That's right, in the final seconds of the tape, one of the men speaks in Russian. Those here who understand russian (and have the stomach to view that final seconds of the video) can verify this. Those who speak Arabic will be able to verify that these men speak Arabic in Russian accents.

9) Finally (the physical evidence that will convince you in case you already aren't)...
You will notice, in watching the video, that 6 times, a gold ring flashes on the hand of the executioner. What is the problem? Islam completely and utterly forbids men to wear gold rings. This fanatical muslim, willing to kill in a gutwrenching manner, and be killed for his beliefs, is violating one of the clear prohibitions of his religion? Really? DOES THIS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

edit:
Two more points:

10) Nick Berg understands Arabic, but sits calmy while statement is read, waiting to be killed. Hmm?

11) One of the executioners is wearing Air Jordans. WHAT?

edit 2:

12) The "terrorists" signed the video, yet they wear hoods and masks. Why?

13) The "terrorists" have lily white hands.

14) The video time is in US Military English. What the hell?

Conclusion
As many has suspected, but have not had the time to build a solid case for, the execution of Nick Berg was performed by coalition interests (most likely independent Russian mercenaries) in order to dwarf the abuse pictures and sway public opinion back against the Iraqis and in support of the war by taking advantage of the emotional reaction we all experience when hearing of such an despicable act. The poor production quality (all the "curiosities" I have pointed out) of this video can be attributed to the haste in which it was made after the order was given to distract the public from the abuse scandal, and is in line with my conclusion.

Again, before you attack my conclusion, attack my evidence. No matter how crazy you think this sounds, examine the evidence objectively and please try to deny a single thing I have said. If you cannot deny my evidence, you logically cannot deny my conclusion. Make your replies free of subjective opinions and ad hominem attacks or I will not reply to them.


Sources:

Chair, wall, timecode, and :
http://www.libertyforum.org/showfla...=-1#Post1469025
http://www.news24houston.com/conten...D=28906&SecID=2

Berg was in US custody:
http://www........./2004/WORLD/meast...ends/index.html
(you'll have to copy & paste this one since genmay blocks cnn links as you know)

Gold rings forbidden by Islam:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/catego...ID=9529&TagID=2
http://www.google.com/search?q=gold...=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The execution video can be seen here (warning, extremely graphic): http://temp.eyecannon.com/iraq2vediom.wmv


PS: In other news, the video that the US used to incriminate Bin Laden in masterminding the 9/11 attacks was a fake. http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html Judge for yourself. I will be doing another post on this once I gather more information. Once you have made up your mind, please ask yourself why the government would want to fake Bin Laden's guilt, which apparently justified the entire Afghanistan war (where an oil pipeline is now being built, which the Taliban had refused to allow).

[That_Other_Guy]

I'm just wondering why in the videos it shakes violently, but yeah...

[filtherton]

Interesting. Wouldn't surprise me if there was a little "wag the dog" action going on.

[Bobaphat]

a few points.

1) The entire world is very angry at the US for the whole prisoner abuse scandal. I don't think its that far fetched that people closely related to that situation might be so angered as to take some revenge in one of the only means available.

2) That chair is standard issue everywhere. I can walk down to Rite-aid and buy one for $3. They are cheap as hell and everywhere. I would bet that 8 out of 10 of my neighbors have that same chair on their patios. Again, not too hard to believe that there may be more than one of the same chair type in the whole of Iraq.

3) If this guy isusing the pictures in the above link to establish that the wall color is the same, then either he or I is color blind, I don't see it.

4) That is probably the same orange jumpsuit you would find in any prison and we know that Berg was held prior to his disappearance. I think that it has been pretty well established that the coelition forces did hold him despite what the government says, but I don't see how that proves anything.

5) Sure the time codes jump around. I think there is a 12 hour disparity or something like that, but why is it hard to think that these guys didn't have the ability to edit the tape. Maybe it didn't happen all at once, maybe it happened throughout the course of several hours and was just edited together later.

6) seems to me that this chart regarding decapitation that is being linked is for animals (in particular for Laboratory rodents, small rabbits, birds, fish, and amphibians) and not specifically for humans. Not to mention that it says that violent muscle contraction CAN occur after decapitation, it doesn't day DO occur DURING decapitation. I think that it is unlikely that he was dead before being decapitated because of the way the blood poured out onto the floor. If he were dead for any amount of time the blood wouldn't flow like that because it coagulates once it stops circulating in your system. If he was dead prior to the beheading, he still would have had to have been killed only just prior too it.

7) Its certainly possible that the US wanted to hide the fact that they detained him because they wanted to avoid taking any resonsability for his subsiquent capture and murder. Its also possible that there was a lapse in information.

8) I certainly can't confirm that they speak Russian or Arabic with a Russian accent, but I don't plan on accepting this statement as fact. Besides, there are certainly angry militant muslims from all over. Russia and Afgahnistan don't have the best relationship and they are awfully close together.


9) I can't say that the video was of good enough quality to clearly show a ring on anyones hand. Also the links the poster submitted as proof don't seem to lead anywhere, so I don't even know if there is any truth to his statement that they are forbidden.

10) What's the point here? If he spoke Arabic, he would know what was being said whether the killers were Arabic or Russian, the text of the message didn't change. I don't see a point.

11) Last I checked, Air Jordans are not found soley in the US.

12) I am pretty sure that only one of the Terrorist's names are mentioned in the video.

13) The hands in the video appear light because they are highlighted against dark clothes. not to mention, not all Arabs are that dark. Also I don't think that the video is clear enough to make any assertions that killers are of any certain ethinicity based on their skin color.

14) So what if the time is in "US Military English?" we aren't the only ones in the world who use this type of time system. There are 24 hours in a day regardless of where you live in the world.


Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.

[qtpye4u84]

Well, I wish it was not true. It hurt seeing that, You both do have a lot of good points, I do know russian but I am not willing to watch that video again!!!
Have they found his body?? Have they shown a video of his casket being brought back to america?
Have they got the guys that killed him????
Have they shown a Video of his family members???
If so I have not seen it yet.
Have not watched the news in a while.
If they were anle to find his why did the us find him before he got killed??

[Bobaphat]

His body was found on Saturday I believe. It was found before the tape was released. No, they don't have the guys who killed him. Yes they have showed his Family members

[Piston Honda]

While the post does make for a convincing scenario, I don't see any real facts to back anything up. Most of the links provided don't go anywhere relevant.

If the assertions stated are fact, then this would be a very interesting argument. But, I have no way to verify the truth of any of the statements, so I'm having a hard time taking all 14 points as anything but conjecture.

[Stompy]

Originally posted by Bobaphat

11) Last I checked, Air Jordans are not found soley in the US.

Point being, why would an extremist muslim who HATES the US with a passion buy US products? That's like being in the KKK and wearing Fubu.

Other than that, one hell of a conspiracy theory. While the facts do present themselves in such a manner that it would appear that this video was fake, I have a hard time believing that something this elaborate would've went on.

To counter all these arguments, maybe the terrorists in the video purposely spoke with a russian accent, wore a ring, nike shoes, etc.. to trick the viewer into THINKING IT WAS THE US.

Brainwashing ++

You think it was fabricated by your own country to save face in the time of an abuse scandal, but who's to say the terrorists didn't purposely make the video like this?

[User Name]

Originally posted by Stompy
Point being, why would an extremist muslim who HATES the US with a passion buy US products? That's like being in the KKK and wearing Fubu.

Other than that, one hell of a conspiracy theory. While the facts do present themselves in such a manner that it would appear that this video was fake, I have a hard time believing that something this elaborate would've went on.

To counter all these arguments, maybe the terrorists in the video purposely spoke with a russian accent, wore a ring, nike shoes, etc.. to trick the viewer into THINKING IT WAS THE US.

Brainwashing ++

You think it was fabricated by your own country to save face in the time of an abuse scandal, but who's to say the terrorists didn't purposely make the video like this?

I think for them, it's more of a convenience rather than a moral decision to use US products. A lot of people dont like Cuba's government but smoke Cuban cigars. Many people use oil from Saudi Arabia not because they like the country, but because it's convenient (and impossible to tell at the pump).

[asudevil83]

Originally posted by User Name
I think for them, it's more of a convenience rather than a moral decision to use US products. A lot of people dont like Cuba's government but smoke Cuban cigars. Many people use oil from Saudi Arabia not because they like the country, but because it's convenient (and impossible to tell at the pump).

i dont know about that. i really dont see how convenient it would be to be an Iraqi wearing some expensive ass shoes from an American company (America being a country that you would die fighting against).

i think that would be worse than a KKK member wearing a Jordan jersey....i doesnt make sense.

but i do find this whole scenario a bit odd. some of the original points do make sense, while others dont. and as shady as some of the stuff has been thats been going on lately i wouldnt be suprised.

[Ace_O_Spades]

personally, I think it's just another conspiracy theory

but this is why i posted it in paranoia

[zxello]

I think this is all a conspiracy theory, the one thing that makes it overwhelmingly clear (inmy opinion) that this video is in fact real, is the fact that the blood pools out of the body (or so im told, i've seen that other 'russian beheading' video and don't think i have the stomach to watch this video).

but when a person dies, their heart stops and the blood clots up inside the body, so when a dead body is cut, the blood won't flow at all, its like gel. if he was decapitated and the blood flowed out in a pool, then his heart was still beating atleast 30 seconds before he died.

oh and that euthanasia chart is total bullshit imo, get a chart for humans and then maybe i'll beleive it.

[Speed_Gibson]

would like to see the video as such things interest me; the Faces of Death films and other things like that are always fascinating to watch in my opinion.
no real opinion either way as I have hardly followed this story to the point where I had no clue what the thread title was referring to by title alone.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally posted by Stompy
Point being, why would an extremist muslim who HATES the US with a passion buy US products? That's like being in the KKK and wearing Fubu.

hackers call it, hiding in plain sight.

[Sun Tzu]

Conspiracy or not; I was once again puzzled why an extreme to that degree would be taken only to cowardly wear masks. Clerics some of these fanatics adore have the guts to let their identity be known. Your saying their names were signed on the video? Can you provide the place where you got that info- thats most interesting if its true.

[MSD]

I'll bet that Berg was wearing those Air Jordans when he was kidnapped, and one of the others thought, "Hey, new shoes. I need those"

[Menoman]

I'd have to note that the severed head did not drip any blood. Also if you do watch the video when he is holding the head up you can clearly see the gold ring.

[gondath]

I've always wondered about Berg's appearance. He appears to be taking a Muslim style beard and haircut. Anybody have an answer for why this is?

[nash]

Originally posted by gondath
I've always wondered about Berg's appearance. He appears to be taking a Muslim style beard and haircut. Anybody have an answer for why this is?

Well, he was missing for several weeks already, so I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that his captors didn't let him visit a barbershop during that time.

[gondath]

Take another look at the photo. He has no hair above or directly below his lips, and his hair isn't completely unkempt like you'd expect.

[hiredgun]

i am Muslim and can confirm that for men to wear gold is in fact strictly forbidden (and this is very widely followed).

however, you can't really be sure it's actually made of gold... and even if you could, the ring alone doesn't prove much.

the majority of the other "points" can be shot down.

the part about Russian seemed the most damning, but i had my friend listen to the entire video (i've definitely got the full one, because i got it off one of the fanatical muslim sites when it was first released) and he heard no Russian whatsoever.

i'm not a native arabic speaker so i may not be 100% reliable for this, but as far as i could discern there was no "russian" accent in the arabic.

the other oddities, involving the chairs and the time, are rather trivial.

[John Falcon]

I recall Bin Ladin wearing an American military field jacket.

[Phant84]

I'm not going to touch who killed Berg or if the video is fake, I'm just going to comment on other things that I've read.

I'll have to pull links to info from my other computer, but.........

1.)
The US was investigating Berg for supporting Iraqi rebels. He was very openly supporting them.

2.)
The US shipped Berg back to the US because of safety issues. Berg, on his own, went back over there.

3.)
Even with all everything going on, restrictions, etc. Berg went out walking, after 11pm, by himself, AND willing got into the car with those people.


Granted, everything I just said is just words without proof, but he still seemd to be a pretty stupid person.

[gdr2004]

I thought it was very compelling to me at least :-p

[Ella]

How could he sit up if he was already dead? And if you watch him closely while the dudes are doing the reading, his body moves. Not a lot, but it moves. Perhaps he's been sedated?

[Jesus Pimp]

Originally posted by gondath
I've always wondered about Berg's appearance. He appears to be taking a Muslim style beard and haircut. Anybody have an answer for why this is?

Me too. Having gone to high school with Berg, he looks nothing like how he does in the videos. He wore glasses and his head was much larger and he had a bigger chin. So either he got plastic surgery or that's not him.