Mirth Sequel: Help me face my fears. *Challenge*
 

So it's 3:30AM as I type this, and I just can't go to sleep. I just can't get how to improve myself and socialize off my mind. So, I come to ask for help. I know, it's been only a few days since I made my last thread, but I don't want to waste any time on getting help and getting better.

For those that don't know me and would like to better understand me and my anti-social personality dilemma, please read my other thread, which shows my loser-ness: Settle With or Dump the girl that I don't love?

I didn't think I could break up with that girl. It's something I normally wouldn't have done. But I finally broke free of that thought and did what was best for me (and her). What I'm getting at is I'm ready to take control of my life and I'm ready to change, even if I'm late in the game at 25 years old.

Main point of thread: For those that want to help me, or those willing to, I would like for you to come up with a goal for the week that has something to do with me either talking to a stranger or something of that sort. If I do not complete the goal each week, I will know for myself that I cannot change, and I will inform you of my failure and not waste anymore of your time. If I do achieve the goal, then you will come up with a harder goal for next week. Note that I will not lie and say that I achieved the goal if I didn't. Lying to you would be of NO help to me, and I do my best not to lie intentionally.

For week one, please make it something simple. Note that I am not normal like the rest of you socially, and that a do have a bit of a negative self-image issue, although it's not as bad as it used to be. It's enough for me to have the guts and confidence to even want to attempt this. So please, make it something somewhat-easily achievable for a beginner.
Analogy: You wouldn't tell a first-time guitar player to learn the E-major barre chord to start off.


I am on a couple dating sites and social networking sites, so you could have me use that.
I am of the legal drinking age, so I can go to bars.
I do have a car so I can go to grocery stores or places with real people.
I can and WILL not talk to any of the girls at my college for the first couple of weeks. They intimidate me to no end.


You or other posters may include tips or pointers that would help me achieve the weekly goal if you so desire.

Please, serious replies only. No " *facepalms* ", no making fun of how I suck at life, etc. If I fail the week's assignment, then you can do whatever you want to your hearts content. But for now, I really want help and guidance, and I'm willing to commit.

I understand your frustration. But here's the thing: asking for others to set up goals so you can improve your self-confidence is a bit contradictory, don't you think?

In fact, this is a trend in most of your posts. You acknowledge that you lack confidence, friendships, intimacy, etc. and then you expect that someone will fix that for you. In your most recent post, it was all about how the girl didn't solve all your emotional problems. And so you are asking complete strangers to send you out to do stuff you should be willing to do on your own.

It is very hard to make friends and know people when you are so insecure. It is even harder when not only there are insecurity issues, but you are willing to dump your problems on someone else to fix.

Have you ever considered counseling? If that is out of the question, then at least ask yourself what you want, and go for it. Asking others for goals is just an excuse to make a half hearted effort, or something to fall on if it fails.

You've had two girlfriends by now, and you've dumped and been dumped. You should know by now that there are people that like you, and if not, if things end badly, it wont kill you.

getting other people to set your goals wont fix your problem. you need to do this for yourself.

but for starters, find out what you're good at. confidence will stem from there.

teach kids how to play a guitar, or help out some charities, or just chill with like minded people. just do something that will give you confidence in your abilities as a person. only then will those negative self-concious issues wither away, and you will find that your confidence will come back.

Something that will help is if you realize there is no such thing as "Normal". Especially when it relates to Social interaction. You're putting building blocks in your own path by building things up to be bigger than they really are.

What about the college girls intimidates you? Answering this question may give you your own set of challenges and steps to take that will help to make taking to them possible.

Do you have $20? Get a haircut. A good one. Afterwards take a picture of yourself with a camera phone and use that photo in any of the dating sites your registered at.

If you don't have a hobby (that you can share), get one.

Next, go out and find out where people get together to discuss/participate in/buy ridiculous amounts of shit for this hobby. Almost everything has a convention or a bunch of social groups.

Talk to people (both male and female). Meet new friends.

Don't try so hard. Learn to listen and to get people to talk to you. You don't need to do all of the talking. You don't even need to do that much at all.

When you meet up with people who share the same interest as you (even one thing), you'd be surprised how easy it is to socialize with them...especially if the activity deals with actually doing something directly related to it.

I know, I know, but I just read my feeds and I had to be the first one to post this.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/childrens_fantasy.png

I think by and large, TFP is going to decline this request. I certainly am. This request just feeds the beast--it has your "self" coming from outside you, which IS the problem.

Also:

If you don't complete a goal, it does NOT mean you can't change. You know what it means? It means you didn't complete a goal.

Your main problem is that stuff happens, you decide what it must mean, and then you roll on as if it actually, objectively means that. Life just isn't fraught with meaning like that. Life is just life. The meaning (in your case, largely in the form of conclusions you draw about yourself) is all coming from you.

Week 1: set your own reasonable goals. You know more about your life than we ever will. Hold yourself accountable. Keep a journal or diary if that helps.

Weeks 2-52: see above.

One other thing: you keep claiming that you're not "socially normal", whatever that means. Here's the thing you don't realize - no one is "normal". It doesn't exist. We are all socially retarded at some point and miss basic signals. You're no more or less outside the "norm" than anyone else.

Hmmm, this thread totally back-fired on me...

I don't know, I thought it just would have made it easier on me if I was doing it as like, a challenge. I felt I couldn't do it for myself, that my brain needs to be tricked into thinking I'm doing it for someone else like if it were a dare. I do think there is something wrong with my brain, and unfortunately I can't prove it. Remember that the brain controls everything, what we remember, what we hear, how we speak, etc. The part that tells me to socialize without fear could be damaged.

I just thought it would be like riding a bike. I rode my bike as a child with my dad holding it up while I pedaled, running alongside me, and we did this for weeks or whatever, and then one day he just let go. I thought maybe we could do something like that where for a couple weeks you guys could give me assignments and then a couple weeks later let go and have me do it on my own. But I respect your decisions not to help if you feel that I must do it on my own...


I'm not sure really, the girls at the university are always in groups and they seem so smart and mature. And obviously they have high ambitions if they are going to get their bachelor's degrees. The girls at the other University I used to go to in Orlando didn't make me feel that way, but these girls for some unknown reason do. Maybe because there are very few, while the other college was swarming with them.


As for the hobbies part... Other than playing drums or bass, or playing video games, which both really don't need to involve a group of people, I don't know what to say. I like flying my dad's radio-controlled model airplane things, but all of the "group" places I've been to are with guys over the age of 50 it seems, haha. I do live in a town where the elderly overpopulate everyone else. I also look on Craigslist in the Activities of Events section, and again, it's all older people stuff. I will have to think hard about where I can find events that involve younger people, other than possibly the church.

I just got a haircut in December. I used to have longer hair (which wasn't cut since the summer), but I did get one recently and I did put up a couple new pictures recently on the dating sites. A few of my online buddies get messaged by women who initiate it, but not myself. Sucks... And when I do initiate it, they usually just don't reply.


Anyways, you may close/delete this thread, I don't think there will be any input here that I haven't gotten from my previous threads already. Thanks anyways fellas, I still <3 you all.

Well, if you have $20 to kill, then go ahead and do it again.

Now, you mentioned somewhere you had like 13,000+ posts on another forum. What is it you were talking about worth of 13,000+ posts? And more importantly what subject consumed the bulk of your posts?

I would need a stylist more than just a barber.

And the posts were at a video-game forum. Had other boards too to talk-about non-video-game stuff. Yeah, I know, lame. It's what I enjoy though.

One thing you might want to stop doing is degrading yourself.

Things such as "I know, I'm lame" certainly don't help you look any better in the eyes of a lady. Confidence is a better aphrodisiac than looks any day.

You need to stop over thinking everything and just go. Slap on a pair of Nikes if you have to.

Whoa, whoa, whoa... what's this?

Camera phone? Seriously? How about a real camera. Outside. In daylight. With other people.

You don't know a damn thing about marketing your mug... do you, Xerxys?

Here, some illumination:

4 Big Myths of Profile Pictures

Why do you presume that everything you say or do is lame?

You seriously need to work on your own self-esteem before you look for a relationship. I think one of the reasons you are so interested in finding a relationship is because you think it will fix your self-esteem issues. I hate to rain on your parade, but it won't. Only you can establish confidence in yourself.

You presume a lot about what other people think about you. Guess what? You're probably wrong. Most people are too wrapped up in their own worlds to notice what you're doing.

And give me a break about girls pursuing BAs being ambitious. You know what they used to jokingly call a BA? The MRS. And guess what? There are still girls at universities all over the country pursuing an MRS, despite these modern times. I see it all over the place at my own university.

I really think you should see a therapist. They can offer more concrete suggestions about how to improve your self-esteem. If you are really truly interested in changing and improving yourself, it can be done, but it will take a lot of work, and it will take professional help. There is really only so much advice we can offer.

There's gotta be some kinda Charlie Brown parable in here somewhere about being overly humble is better than being a GucciLvr.

Actually, I read that article the other day (I'm signed up for that dating site) and it actually says that a self-shot photo pics get better results.

The pics with no shirts get way better results, but I don't have that kind of body. :\


Anyways, I only degrade myself because I thought acceptance was the first step to recovery. :\ And professional help isn't an option, I'd kill myself before I seen a professional.

NOTHING is better than being a GucciLvr.

You win the prize for most idiotic statement I've read today. And I've been reading failblog and failbooking, so I've read a lot of idiotic statements today.

My point by posting that article was strictly humorous. Their stats suggest that I should showcase my ravioli-like abdominal muscles and avoid writing a lengthy profile, sticking to monosyllabic words and catch phrases. Throw in some pouty lip shots and a closeup of my off-the-wall tribal tattoo and I'm gonna be just rollin' in the vaj! Heh. I sincerely doubt that such a course of action would lead me to the kind of woman that I want to do more with than just bump rubber-covered uglies. I apologize if you took that link seriously. Really, it was just part of my larger plan to confuse Xerxys.

Common sense dictates that a shitty indoor self-shot of a dumpy guy who doesn't have much to say about himself isn't going to follow their supposed stats, bro. Grainy emo cleavage-laced coy self-shots might work for girls based strictly on meat appeal but not for male nerds. I can't imagine too many girls soaking their panties over a guy who can't be bothered to escape the box that casts the blue light long enough snap a decently lit picture.

...

Professional help isn't an option, eh? Hey, I'm cool with that. Shrinks are expensive and a liability if you want to get certain jobs. If you're not going to seek professional help, however, you must take it upon yourself to unfuck your life. I get the feeling a good portion of your largely masturbatory posts here on TFP are just attempts to connect with strangers and shoot the shit. That's cool. We all do it. Just avoid being such a whiny choad about it.

Why? And is begging total strangers to fix your problems a much better solution?

So... is that like being Mick Jagger? Whew, I don't wanna be like him when I'm that age.

Sure, if he just wants to talk. I think a lot of people are taking this guy waaay too seriously. He's not 9/11, he's the shoe bomber.

Oh, I didn't see the joke at first but now I do. Yeah, I always thought that the pictures of girls climbing mountains or scuba diving and stuff like that were pretty cool. I do have a picture of me playing my bass with the band at a show, but doesn't seem to have helped. Also, I didn't want to make an assumption that dating-site users had bad taste in what they like in pictures (the last time in another thread that I assumed something about a group of people, bar girls, I got my ass handed to me for that).

But basically what you said about shrinks is why I don't want to go. I can't afford a shrink, heck, I was crying at how much I was spending on my date. ($40-$50 every meet usually). I didn't know about the liability on jobs though... I thought there was a patient doctor confidentiality.

And no, this isn't a joke thread. I wish I could think of something this clever to fool everyone, but I'm not like that. Ask LoganSnake, he's known me for years and known that I've had this problem (although I have made improvements from what I used to be, if that even sounds possible.)

Mirth,

Wild guess, but guys that look for girls with self-shots of their lotion-shiny butterhogs aren't in the mood for a chat about campaign finance reform or the last time they did a half marathon. Some girls pose like meat, and the meat eaters go for it. No mystery there. I can't say I've ever gone out with a girl I met on a dating site that played the sex card in their dating site profile. That's cheap... and I don't like cheap women. They attract STDs and babies and drunken exboyfriends. You don't need that. You're looking for someone who's a dating site mercenary: she's there to find a decent guy, no bullshit.

It's okay to say that dating site users have horrible. At least half of the guys on there are total scumbags... which is why it often takes the effort I put into it to assure decent girls that I'm not just trying to play hide the sausage with them after a trip to Taco Bell.

Yeah, and dating is way expensive if you do the typical dickdance routine of dinner+movie+awkward goodnight. I'd avoid that traditional goatfuck in favor of something a little more European... meeting over coffee (cheap, short operational time frame). Even braineating zombies like something on the menu from Dunkin Donuts. Make sure to bring something to talk about... that's really the most important item.

And having LoganSnake as a friend may contribute to your lack of self-esteem. He hurts my feelings all the time.

Well Mirth, what are you going to do?

Ya know, that's exactly how I feel about the dating sites... Most of the girls are there showing off their funbags or how they can hold both ends of a poolstick with their feet. I had a pretty detailed profile, but not enough to bore a person. I put bits of my personality, hobbies, what I was doing with my life (school/work), and the occasional sentence that should make a person laugh, and left enough mystery for them to possibly want to get to know me more. I'm finding it more difficult to find someone who's a little more serious about a relationship... (even if some of you don't feel I'm ready for one, I still have to start somewhere, and I'd rather it not just be for practice)

And, I feel like there is more competition on there than in person. I say this because, there are hundreds of guys within a 25 mile radius of the girl that is looking, so she gets to be picky and choose what she likes best and go down from there. But in person, if there is a pretty girl that's at the grocery store and you're the only one in the aisle, YOU get to show her who you are, rather than her getting to choose who she wants to get to know. That is only an example, maybe a bad one, but that's kinda what's in my mind of how it works...

And I'm glad I'm not the only one who's cheap. :D Well, maybe you're not cheap, but I can pretend so I don't feel like I'm totally stingy.


Hehe, actually, to totally contradict what I posted about women on dating sites, before I seen the last two replies on here I decided to message a girl on the dating site. She's hot, has a kid, and is looking for a relationship or casual sex (or both?) So yeah, I messaged her, but only for practice in helping me become confident enough to message more women, hopefully working my way up. I really don't care if that slut turns me down or not. I thought it was a funny message, so at least I got a laugh out of what I did.

Also, I asked my online guy friend if a certain recent photo of me was good or not. He decided to post it on a female friend of his' wall on facebook for her opinion (without my permission -_-). She's taken, and she's a 10/10, so it'll be kinda funny to see what her opinion is.

...

I know they make hose clamps big enough to fit around Mirth's neck. I'll see how much they are and get his address.

I don't get it, what'd I do wrong? I finally managed to get some balls and message someone, even if it leads to nothing with her. Which I'd prefer. Isn't that a good start?

Let's start with "if that slut" and map your attitude towards women.

I'm sorry that our definitions differ of a woman "looking" for casual sex with people she's not interested in staying with as being a slut or not.

:)

Interesting comments from some people...
Also interesting is that the three people showcased near the end of the blog, which I also found interesting, are located in my hometown. Wasn't expecting that.

You mean directly above the comments section? Those are chosen by geolocation. I see three profiles from Ottawa, because that's where okcupid assumes I am based on my IP.

/threadjack.

And what does that make you, chief? A daring penis/lance-toting crusader in search of a snatch-dragon to slay? Hardly, especially given your demonstrated experience and attitude. You alternate between whining about losing your manga-obsessed failmound and whatever this thread is supposed to be other than the universal hand signal for the the number 0 crudely oscillating over the shaft of a neglected erection.

Your attitude kinda reminds me of the beginning of that Office Space movie... ya know, where the nerdy white guy is stuck in traffic and thuggin' it out to gangsta rap until he sees an actual black guy and flips out, silencing the music and putting up his window / locking his doors. I'm not a genius, but I get the feeling you puff yourself up with these pejorative and adversarial definitions toward women. I'm guessing if you were in a room with this insta-family female from OkStupid, you'd act like you were reading off the script of The Waltons. Suppose this means I'm just doubting your sincerity as an asshole.

Your keyboard appears to be writing a check your real life can't summon the balls to cash. I'll let you in on something I learned a while back: there is no "us vs. them." We're all little chicken nuggets rolling around in this big bowl, bumping into each other. There are no martyrs, there is no magic. You have issues with women? It's you, no them. You don't wanna settle for someone? Don't, your first clue was that ya even thought about it. You wanna find a fuck / love on the Internet? Pick a goal and work your resources to achieve it. It's like all that old "Carpe Diem" go-west-young-man shit without the haircare products associated with our metrosexual peers. My point: we want your social success war stories, not your emo high school LiveJournal rants.

The Internet is a great place for research and a good place for conversation, but it's not really a place to come for help with your social life. A quick peek at 4Chan or WoW forums is enough evidence. Unless you're looking for real world events, it's an avoidable gaping wound on the old life hourglass.

And newsflash: It's 2010. They let women wear shoes AND vote these days. Get with the program. Everybody likes sex... yes, even the goils.

I'm starting to get you, Mirth. And it scares me. Like a dirty bucket containing a pump bottle of lotion being lowered into a hole.

Say, you find any of my hopes and dreams worth shattering while you're at it?

Damnit, I was comfortable being the disfunctional relationship guy on the board but this guy... sorry man, you can have my crown, my cake, my kingdom.

Your classification of women seems to objectify them, and if I had to guess, you do this because you're socially defunct to the point that women aren't people, they're just challenges. Challenges that make you self conscious, wonder if you're not good enough, and ultimately it's not about them, it's about you, and you think the only thing that would make you feel better right now is if some chick met you and spread her legs for you in acceptance since you can't find acceptance in who you are on your own.

There's a word for that. Co-dependence.

You're an incomplete person seeking completion in others. I'll tell you what I know. Girls aren't charities. They're looking for the whole package, the men who make enable them to feel love, respect, and passion.



You know what? take a vow of self improvement for a while, don't even think about sex or anything of that nature for a while. Get around girls and alter your attitude whoever you have to, to make yourself not want to hook up with them. Look down at them, brush them aside, treat them like co-workers or business associates, not love interests. Get it under control, and once you feel like you understand what it means to not feel the NEED to hook up with every hottie that passes your way, you might understand what it means to be confident and secure.

and you know what? every little bullshit thing you knock about yourself, you can change. If you feel out of shape, fix it, if you feel like your skin is bad, get a dermatologist, if you feel you can't afford the services that increase your self confidence, get a better job, and if you don't feel you have what it takes to get a good job, get a better education, find a passion that doesn't involve women.

Just my 2 cents, again.

Mirth: It's very uncanny how similar your self-image is to what mine was a couple of years ago. Everything you typed, from the frank and harsh self-criticism to the analyzing of what is "normal" social behavior, is exactly what I would have stated if I had gone this route (posted for help on TFP) rather than my own. You say you don't consider yourself a person of "normal" social ability, and so you think that "normal" people won't understand what you're going through, but I identify very much with you; for this reason I hope you will really listen to what I have to say. Today I'm more content than I think I've ever been, and trust me, I never thought life could be this way for me.

Up in post nine, The_Jazz was spot on in terms of whether there's a "normal" when it comes to social behavior, so I'll skip that lecture and go straight to the point. To escape the anguish and loneliness I was feeling (which was very similar to what you've described), the first thing I did was dedicate myself to getting healthy (at the time I weighed 260 lb); this meant going to the gym unflinchingly, modifying my diet, etc.. In 6 months I lost 50 lb and acquired a fairly athletic/muscular body type; needless to say, my self-esteem was boosted tremendously just from that.

Unfortunately, getting healthy and in shape was far easier than the other changes I had to make; namely, making myself comfortable enough to converse with strangers. To do this, I simply immersed myself in places where I knew there'd be people. Since I was in college at the time, this meant any of the dozens of events that took place every month (e.g., concerts of all genres, club/organized events). As a musician, I especially enjoyed the music events since those were the people I thought I'd have the easiest time conversing with. Once there, I'd come up with some friendly funny/witty general/relevant observation about whatever seemed fittest, then I'd recite it to any near-by person with-whom I made eye contact; people were always receptive to my attempts at conversation, and I never encountered any rudeness or spite. I won't lie, at first it was absolute anguish; there was nothing more discouraging for my cause than having a conversation die after just a couple of exchanges. When things didn't work, I simply moved on and tried again, learning from the mistake I'd made just before, or I'd come up with a different approach for pushing the topic. I forced myself to NEVER dwell on the failure, and always strive to keep the conversation flowing.

There were times early on when I wanted to stop because of the disappointment, but I pushed on anyway, repeating the same strategy probably hundreds of times. I did it in the grocers, in class, at the bank, in the gym, in line at Subways, and even in the park while jogging; it got to the point where I would reach out to people without any initiative, simply out of habit. Then one day, just a few months after I'd started the campaign, it dawned on me: I could finally converse freely with people. I couldn't believe how my personality evolved and presented itself given the tools and experience to relate and speak to others. Mind you, I wasn't totally comfortable around them, but I could come up with things to say, and I could keep the conversation flowing as long as need be. At this point, the transition from talking to strangers to developing friendships was easy. I simply conversed with the same people who had similar interests, became very familiar/comfortable around and to them, exchanged numbers then let nature take its course.

An important note, after reading Shauk's recent post, is that, when conversing with women, I never did so for the purpose of beginning a relationship; I treated girls just as I did guys, with intent to hone my skills and form friendships. That vow of self-improvement that Shauk mentions is essencially what I did in a nut shell. It's well understood that until one is happy with oneself, one will never find happiness in others (several members have already pointed this out), so trying to start a relation before I was ready would only have hindered my cause.

A quick personal fact about me, which will hopefully strengthen my case: When I started the campaign I was 21 years old and a virgin - no, worse than that, I'd never kissed a girl, and I could only recall two times when I'd even touched one before. Now, I made sure when I started the campaign to not discriminate between conversation partners based on sex; after all, what good is it if I'm only comfortable around other men? By the time I was making friends as described above, I was very comfortable around women (I remember thinking, "hmm... they are just people after all."). Imagine my surprise when one of the female friends I'd recently made took the initiative and introduced me to an amazing part of life that I'd missed out on all those years.

To summarize, it's going to take tremendous work on your part to escape the gravity of that black hole that's keeping you from being happy, but you have to accept that it's the only way to make things better. You have to force yourself out there, but the payoff in the end is by far worth the pain of the start. I know you already appreciate this, and I commend you for posting and sharing with us this personal topic.

I have a challenge for you, but for one day only. For one day, I challenge you to find things that you like about yourself, no matter what you might think anyone else might think about it If it's something you're into, that's fucking awesome. Be into it because you love to do it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Give yourself compliments. Sweet Jesus...learn to like yourself, then learn to love yourself. If you're a badass drummer and bass player, or even if you suck at it, it doesn't matter. If you like it and you like how you feel when you're doing it, *That is all that should matter.* In addition to that, you are flat out, absolutely not fucking allowed to bash yourself, talk down about yourself, post anything of a self-depricating nature or make yourself feel like a piece of shit. For one day, it's all about YOU and what you like about yourself. Once you have a day down, your next challenge is two days. Once you hit a week, you get a new challenge.

Before y'all start dispensing advice, please keep in mind that none of it will matter (ever, ever) until Mirth addresses one major issue first. I'm sure you all already know what it is.

His self esteem is near 0 Kelvin - absolute zero. If it were any lower, he would be too embarrassed to look at his reflection in the mirror. I'm not saying it in jest, I'm simply stating a fact. Whatever advice you have regarding that -that is the main issue. Address it first.

Everything. Every little problem. Every big problem. Every sentence that may be deemed facepalm worthy that stems from the way his brain works has roots in his self esteem. Fix that and you'll fix Mirth.

And that's all I have to say about that. </Gump>

Hell, I think he needs to get his emo ass kicked a few times.

He'll either be horribly maimed or learn to stand on his own.

Nothing builds more self-esteem faster than flexing the will to live.

Man... I feel retarded because I did not understand about 85% of that message, haha. A few things I got were that women are real people too, and I'm not good enough for them yet until I improve myself. Or something like that.

I'm not sure of the "everybody likes sex" part. The girl I dated didn't seem to care about getting it. I just thought, to advertise to the world that you were looking for sex kinda seemed slutty, that's all.


I shall accept the crown! But I will hand it off to w4r10ck, he seems to need it more than me. :D

Anyways, I really liked that post. I hate to admit, but women are just different to me, you're right on target with that. In realizing this now, I have made the effort to change that. (See bottom of my reply.) Sort of like, practice. And yes, I do feel like I need a woman to complete me... It's a bad thought process that I have to let go of, even though I feel like the only thing I'm missing in life are friends and a girlfriend. I'm going to try to focus on friends first, though.

As for the whole package though... In the things you listed, I feel like I do have those qualities. It's just that I usually never get that far to be able to prove it.

As for focusing on self-improvement, yeah, I do need to do that first and foremost. But the not focusing on sex thing is tough. (See bottom of reply again for this). But yeah, mentally I need to fix myself, and physically fixing myself would be a bonus, at least in building confidence.

Thanks for the reply!


That was a very inspiring story and a great post in general. :)

In response, let's see... Well, the college thing is a little bit out of the question for me. I don't go to our main campus (3 hours away), and our campus is extremely small. ("Campus currently serves approximately 738 students, or 3% of the university's student body."). With that said, they have 3 events in the beginning of the semester and 3 at the end on this campus, which I actually attend all of them, because I'm on the campus anyways at those times. The events consist of them putting up a little table with food and drinks, haha, and there's maybe 10 people that walk in, grab some grub and walk right out. Sucks. :( As far as other events I can attend in the area... I'll just have to look around. I live in a mostly small town, surrounded by small towns up until 200 miles, so there aren't a lot of events that I'm aware of. But I will try to get more information on any events that we may have that I don't know about.

But like you said, you started to make conversation with people everywhere, failing or not, which is something I cannot make an excuse for. I should attempt to do that. I'd feel better doing that in the town of my college, so I'd feel there's less of a chance of running into them again if things go sour, haha. But I must highly consider talking to strangers to get better at socializing... It seems like the main thing I need to do to improve myself.

For the record, I got ya beat. I got my first kiss when I was 24 and lost my v-card at 24 too, and nothing has happened since. :D

With that said, I know I'm "supposed" to take things slow, in better improving myself... But my mind keeps telling me that I'm running out of time for that. I want to have kids someday (don't laugh people :( ) and the older I get, the less time on this Earth I will have to spend with my kids. Sounds retarded, I know, but that's what's in my mind why I'm trying to find someone quickly. But I realize I can't find someone unless I fix myself first.

Thank you greatly for your reply too. :)


There are plenty of things I like about myself, I suppose. I like my smile (even with the two vampire teeth :D ), I like how thoughtful I am in person, I like my politeness in person, as you said the badass bass/drummer part, I like that about myself, I like my sense of humour (although sometimes it's a little too crude), I like my work ethics. Well, I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of em at the moment. But yeah, I have to challenge myself to stop beating myself up, that's for sure. I will start that right about... (I need to take growth hormones) ...now!





Yeah, I'm going to start working on that, as I stated in this post.

And Forrest Gump is my favorite movie. :D



You're gonna have to get a group of people then, I'm 3 and 0 in fights :o


-----------------------------------------------------

Anyways, while I'm doing this self-improvement, is it okay if I try to hook-up with women? Like I said earlier, with how old I am, I feel like I've missed out on my "teenage" sexual years. I've only had sex twice... I mean yeah, if I found a girl right now that wanted me to spend the rest of her life with and I liked her, I wouldn't care about getting any nooky. But I'm single and curious right now. I want to know what it feels like again, because I just don't remember. That girl I messaged earlier on the dating site, before I read all these replies, actually laughed at my joke message and asked me what I'd like to know about her (Part of the message I said "Teach me everything you know :o" (which I was trying to make it seem like I mean about sex). So ya, I may have the chance to hook-up with her?

So final question... would this get in the way of my self-improving? Should I back down now and focus ONLY on the improving myself? This seems like an opportunity to make myself feel more confident possibly.

</host flashback>

What's that mean? It was a legitimate question.

TFP inside joke.

I like, just got punched in the heart a few minutes ago... I was starting to do good today, I even made some progress I would say. Until now. Fuck...

So, in trying to get laid on the side (as I asked about earlier if that was okay or not), that girl finally messaged me back and asked for my AIM. We started talking, she was actually very sweet! And she came off as pretty intelligent! We had a lot of laughs in the beginning! Then:

And then we made uninteresting non-conversation, then I signed off.

I don't get it, I really don't...

I had made plans to go walking tomorrow with a girl I met for 2 minutes in August (from the dating site, but met her at my school both not knowing we went to the same school). We're just friends, which I like. But now I feel kinda depressed again. I hope the hurt goes away by tomorrow.

How is that something to joke about? I don't know what it proves, but when a girl is interested in you, says all these nice things about you, you have a great conversation, and then finds out your 7 inches shorter than she thought, it all goes down the drain??? I don't understand...

...did she say guns? Do you own firearms?

Let me see these firearms. I like firearms.

Meh, you can't let it bother you Mirth, people are just...strange sometimes. Some have very specific standards and if you don't meet them all no matter how great you get along it all falls apart. I had a girl turn me down once because my eyes were the wrong shade of blue...go figure huh? Then again I've been shot down so many times over the years I've lost count, I could get down about it but why bother? Not everyone is compatible and there are a billion reasons why not. Sounds pretty hopeless right?

Not really, for every example I could give you of being shot down I could give you another were I didn't. In those cases I've met long time girlfriends, one night flings and people who have turned out to be great friends. Dust yourself off and get back out there and start developing some callouses. You might get shot down a dozen times or more but eventually, if you just be yourself and keep trying, somebody will respond.

Haha, yes, fire-arms is more like it. I do have pretty big biceps/triceps when flexed, at least for someone who has a very thin/small build, but when I don't flex I just look like a weakling.



Yeah, you're right I suppose. It just seems so weird, just so hard to imagine that one little thing like height or eyes can totally make them do a 180 on ya. I'm not going to give up yet though... Well, on her yes, haha. But on improving my social skills, I will not let this get too far into my head! :)

My advice would be to get off TFP, meet some (new) people, and build relationships with females as friends. You aren't ready for anything further than that. By the way you speak about girls in your life, I feel like you really need to put down the e-dating books you've been reading and actually talk to some.

That's the spirit Mirth! You just have to let it roll of your back...I mean really if somebody turns you down because of something like height is that somebody you really want to spend a lot of time with or even a second more thinking about?

Anyway I agree with what Toaster posted above, you need to get out and just meet people, getting a girlfriend will come in its own time. Don't go into a situation thinking about anything but just making friends, get to know them and just hang out. Not only will you learn social skills, but you'll start feeling better about who you are when you realize these people just like spending time around you because they like who you are. When you get comfortable with who you really are and are okay with it, the doors will open up big time. You'll take your time finding a relationship that works for you, not a crutch or somebody to shoo away the loneliness but somebody you can really fall for.

Best of luck :)

Thanks again fellas. I guess I won't look for sex on the side anymore, hehe, and I just changed the focus on my dating site account from "Relationships" to "Friends". Don't want to totally break the outlet of meeting new people from there. Time to focus on real life.

You're aware that asking "Even the height part?" was your critical mistake, right?

Look. I've worked in sales. I've sold products that were, let me be blunt, pure shite.

You don't walk up to your prospective customer and say, "Hello sir! I wonder if I could interest you in the exchange of your hard earned cash dollars in trade for this product which is, let me be blunt, pure shite." At least not if you feel like eating, you don't.

And if in the course of the conversation they CATCH ON that it's, let me be blunt, pure shite, you spin the shite as a positive. "Sure it's shite, but it's colorful! And shiny! The ladies love shiny colorful shite, sir!"

Being 5'5" isn't a problem, and you "shouldn't be self conscious" about it, he said knowing damn well it wouldn't make any difference. But at the VERY least you don't need to be pointing it out to them.

I worked in sales for 6 months at one of the former major electronics stores. I was a terrible salesman. There was something wrong with every product that I knew about. "...though, this home stereo system doesn't have a rewind for the CD player", "...this printer is known for its paper jams.", etc. Which I was told not to do, but I just felt so bad for selling junk, haha. Oddly enough, I got employee of the months my 3rd month there because a lot of the customers told my manager that I was extremely helpful (even though I got the least amount of sales compared to the people who started the same month as me) :D. But yeah, I had a problem of telling them all the good stuff and not letting it end there, I had to make sure that they knew the faults too. Extremely bad habit, one which I'm trying to work on, but sometimes I just forget I do it.

But yeah, It was a mistake and it wasn't a mistake, haha. The mistake part was me thinking that she was missing something, because I was thinking, "This is too good to be true, this is too easy, she's definitely missing something...", so I figured just to make sure this was reality, I'd confirm with her and she'd be like, "Yeah, I love short guys, they are cute!". But unfortunately, I was right the first time, haha.

The non-mistake is that if I didn't ask her, and we would have talked for a few days and then met in person, she'd be like, "Om-fucking-shit... I thought you were tall!", haha. I mean, if she's not attracted to short guys, that's fine with me, everyone has their preference I suppose. But it's good in a way that we got that out of the way without wasting both of our time.


- - - - - -

Anyways, I think I made a social effort today. Was walking to the classroom and a classmate was too, and going towards the classroom we noticed that none of the lights were on. I looked at him and said, "Kinda dark in there, huh?". He didn't say anything back. I don't think he even moved a muscle in his mouth. I guess it was a dumb thing to say though. But failure is okay for now, I'll get better at this with time!

You are 5'5"? From all the short fucking hobbits out here (and I'm the fucking president of The Hobbit Guild). Get the fuck over it. I'm short, but I don't let it hold me back. Here's what you do.... MAKE A FUCKING JOKE OF IT. I've found the best defense is a good offence when it comes to shortness. Throw the short joke in there before they can, then counter with something about them. I'm as short as they come, but you can't let that hold you back.

This is true for others and yourself. If you kick yourself for being short, you will always be short. If you can laugh just as hard about short jokes as others, well you are one step closer to knowing that IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER.

Fucking emo kids, I thought you were like 5 feet fucking tall or shorter.

you can do what LE does..when on webcam, make sure the cam is facing from the ground up.

its all about perspective.

Just put on a shirt.

join a swingers club, failing that go up into the mountains for a year and practice kung fu, judo, etc. then put on a tight leather outfit and fight crime.

Stated above is a prime example is why you shouldn't ask crazies like me for advice. Do your own thing (within the social norms) and you will find people to confide in.

I was going to save this response till later tonight when I assume you would have replied something but I won't bother. I already assume you had a lot of motivation it being a Monday and lost it instantly when everyone shot you down. You had 5 days. And I sorta anticipated this because I am copy pasting most parts of this response. I wrote it on Tuesdat when you came up with an excuse.

Remember this?

The most integral part of my post was the haircut. The photograph part of it was just to make yourself feel better but the most important part was for YOU to feel good about yourself when you look in the mirror for the next two weeks. I can accept a reason along the lines of, "I don't have $20.00 to kill" (although a haircut is $12 here) but anything short of that is an excuse.

That's what you are Mirth, an excuse. You are a sorry excuse in the way of your own happiness and you are your own reason for anxt.

This thread was a very good idea, IMHO. You failed the very task of this thread and that was to develop independent thought through social exercise. A method of understanding that there IS a social norm, and comprehending it is irrelevant. Whether or not you get it doesn't matter, whats important is you act accordingly.

Your attitude. Your attitude is very bad. Know the jesus parable about log in the eye? You can't call someone a slut because of what you learned from their profile! Is your profile an excellent summation of what you are?

This pretty much puts it into perspective.

When archetypal fool asked you to talk to people you seemed to some up with an excuse to "exempt" you from talking to people in your home town. Does your head work like this all the time?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/creepy.png

The point of this post is, had anyone participated you would have failed still. YOU are in YOUR way. Get out of your head. Then out of your bedroom. Go to work. Go to school. Talk about work and school. Once you realize you are sick of these things because you do them every day other interests will arise. If you don't join a gym you'll still be skinny. If you don't go out you'll still be a WoW gamer who has nothing to talk about besides WoW. YOU are in YOUR way.

And your emo. Mirth, the reason you don't have a girlfriend and IRL friends is because your emo. No one likes emo. We don't make fun of them when we ask them to cut themselves, we mean it. No one wants to hang around emo ... at all.

I wonder if I got that last one across ...

/scratches head

i think you both need to get laid

Fo sho... but only after they both get a vasectomy.

Well, as I am currently in the process of doing, I am learning to accept myself. "I" don't mind being short. Comes in handy every once and awhile. It's just my perception of other people, mostly females, shooting me down for it (which has happened a few times). And when I mean short, it's not just being not tall. I knew plenty of guys who weren't tall, about my height, but they were bulky, looked like short men. I on the other hand have very boyish features; I can't grow facial hair (I wish I could grow a beard, haha), I'm the opposite of bulky, I have very little arm hair, my hands are the size of most womens' (I've actually had hand-to-hand comparisons with a few women, who just wanted to do it for a laugh). Even Jason Schwartzman looks more manlier than me. For the record, I've been working out at home for 3/4 months using proper techniques (not just doing 10 reps in the morning and stopping), and I've gained a lot bicep/tricep muscle as stated before, my legs are a lot more stronger and have much more stamina and stuff, things like that, but they just don't "show" unless I'm flexing, and I can't flex 24/7. I think my small frame, small build prevents me from bulking up and looking strong.

I'm literally mistaken as being 15/16 years old by most people who I've just met, that is a fact. With that said, I believe that most women will not approach me for the fact that they think I'm 16 years old; no 20-26 year old woman is going to "want" to start talking to a guy that looks like a young teen, period, just in case I really am 16. It's not like, "Maybe that guy isn't 16, maybe he's 25 and I should talk to him." That is a fact. The only exceptions to this are if I go to places that somewhat are associated with age; going to the bar, I have to be at least 21, going to college, I have to (usually) be at least 18. Hell, even in college, people thought I was in the dual-enrollment program with the High School taking college courses.

With all that said, as a part of the new process with becoming confident in my self and more sociable, I know that I have to work around with all that I've stated above, that's just the way it has to be. I know I have to learn to joke about it. I'm not using it as an excuse not to try, I'm accepting what I am now and working with what I've got, even if it puts me at a huge disadvantage.


Umm..... wrong thread? o_O


I don't recall taking it off. Inform me please...




Yeah, you're definitely a few days late. As I have said in a few of my other posts, I have been attempting to become more social and accept myself. I tried making chit chat with someone and failed, but will keep on trying over and over. The fact that I am going to keep trying is not failing, and is a huge improvement over how I was thinking just a week ago. Of course I'm not going to be successful and fully cured within a week, I'm taking it slowly.

And like I said, I got a haircut like, last month, lol.

If I were emo, I'd have killed myself by now. No emo could be 24 years of age being lonely, they'd definitely would have committed suicide by now. :p

But that's the point of emo. Miserable talk and no action. Reflection on how horrible it is to be alive instead of getting off the couch.

You complain about looking like a boy? Get the fuck out of here. I still get carded at the R-rated movies by people 7 years my junior, even with my stubble/hair combo. I was told I look 15 just two months ago at school.

The plus side? I'll be able to get younger chicks when I'm in my 30s looking like a 25 year old. Oh yeah. Besides, I know I look good. That's the difference.

One of the other ideas I see floating around in your posts is a focus on the "social clock": "I'm x years of age, so I should be doing y." Here's the truth: while it is easier to make major life transitions at the time dictated by a social clock because your peers are going through the same transitions, you can still make these transitions at other times. The cultural diversity of modern American society means the social clock is becoming less relevant in some ways. I wrestle with this too; a lot of my peers are married and having babies. Does this mean I want to run out and have a baby? No, not particularly; the timing isn't right for me. I have figured out that my personal needs come before the social clock.

Stop worrying about what you should be doing at your age, and just live.

Wha? ...

It will make you very sad then to know I have frozen my sperm in various undisclosable sperm banks across the world in case ninja attack take my balls forcibly. Waaaay ahead of you buddy!

Mirth: Listen to snowy.

I'm on the same boat. At my age, most people I know have mortgages, marriages, families, and even a few assets. I have none of those things (though I am in a common-law relationship). I have debt and no savings, no real assets, and I have only 32 years left until I hit that socially prescribed retirement age. Yeeeah.... at this rate, it ain't gonna happen.

So what am I going to do about it? Well, for starters, I'm in the process of rewriting my scripts. You know, those things that people wrote for you and you've been living by all this time, or maybe you've been deviating from them subconsciously and have been miserable because, well, you feel like a deviant and things aren't "going according to plan"—even though you have no plan.

Toss out what you think others expect of you and go after what matters to you most. If you don't know what that is, you have a lot of work to do. Have at it.

You must have forgotten how to read. I've started to make improvements. It's almost like you want me to fail so you can make fun of me. But I'll overcome my fears even if it takes me awhile, and prove you wrong.


I've seen pictures of you, you don't look that young. I'd bone.


You make a good point. All my friends or acquaintances from High School are either married or are engaged to get married, so I do kind of feel out of the loop. If I had to choose a time period that I got off the social clock, it'd be my high school years, for sure. I guess I can't really re-live my high school years, haha, but I know I gotta make the effort to be more social as if I were in high school again, or something.



Hmmm... I would have never guessed that you'd be out of the social clock, you've always come off as what seems to be one of the most wise and helpful members on the board. But it's neat that you too have problems. Not saying that in a mean way, hehe. But yeah... I have to start doing my own things, for myself. Which I am slowly working at.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Anyways, if anyone cares, I have an update on my progress. A somewhat former acquaintance of mine invited me to their show tonight at a bar via a facebook event invite. My parents are friends with his parents, and that's how we know each other. Most of his family and relatives went to see him play tonight. Anyways, I decided to go, to get more comfortable around other people. I didn't really talk to anyone the whole night, was more of just a practice of being around people.

Well at the end, the acquaintance's father invited me to join their table, with his family. Which was great, because one of the girls (I think his niece) really caught my eye... Like, I know I'm not supposed to pre-judge people based on looks (bad habit I'm working on), but she seemed out of place, like she doesn't normally go to bars and stuff. Looked innocent. Throughout the night of the family talking, I learned that she doesn't drink, is a Christian, and doesn't go to bars other than when her cousin's band is playing. Kinda like me! :)

But anyways, they all invited me to go to IHOP with them, which would have gotten me more time to try to get to know that girl. I know, I know, I'm supposed to be working on my socializing skills and not girls, but I can't help myself. Unfortunately, they split us into two tables, and I didn't get to be in hers. I had to sit next to this other girl, 19, who was definitely not my type! But I got to sit with my acquaintance and the drummer, and we actually had a lot of laughs, they felt like real friends. I was really enjoying myself, and I really felt like I was just like everybody else. I talked to them like I would with my other friends, showing that I'm comfortable.

At the end of the night, they said they'd invite me to their next show when they have one. The drummer mentioned that he goes to the same college as me on Wednesdays at night like I do, so I said maybe I'll see him around and we can chill till our classes start. I felt really confident at IHOP after the first couple minutes. I even talked to the girl next to me every once and awhile, as if she was just another person at the table and not some attractive female. I gave her a mozzarella stick and she offered me some of her steak, but it looked gross, haha, so I declined politely. Also, the dad was hitting on two chicks younger than me like it was nothing... And he's 51... That man has some balls, and did it so smoothly. Gave me inspiration! He said I could have easily gotten one of those bar girls (Yes, he's prejudice too I guess, he thinks "bar-girls" are easy). I suppose he noticed that I didn't talk to anyone, although I'm pretty sure he already knows I'm shy.

When I got home, I checked the facebook event. That girl that I seem to be interested in is only 19. Ah well...

Anyways, I feel really good tonight. Feel like I made some progress! And I plan to make more. :)

Mirth,

good to see you take the first step. and i really do hope you prove Plan9 wrong. only his dad seems to put him in place like he should.

just a piece of advice though...stay away from innocent christian girls dammit!

:thumbsup:

Haha, yeah, I have to stay away from them! It's hard, I can't help myself. :D

Yes, by-golly-gosh! I must have forgotten how to read... because I fail to see the difference in the guy behind the drivel.

http://www.motifake.com/image/demoti...1258584859.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What's wrong with dating a 19 year old at 25?

I'll spare you the cautionary tale. Let's just say you still have tons of time....just don't waste it anymore. You're still young. Use it or lose it...you're going to lose it anyway, so you might as well benefit from it somehow. You want to know what's worse than failure? Regret.

Let's see...

...absolutely nothing!

Green light!

Green light! :thumbsup:

Ha, yeah, I know about regret. I spent my whole life doing things in which I thought was the right way, to prevent having regrets, and it backfired; having the regret of not having regrets.

- - - - - - - - - -

Anyways, I didn't make much progress tonight, had homework to do mostly. I did go in the TFP chatroom though. Actually, I'm there at the moment. I guess it's close enough to trying to be social for tonight. I don't think I'm doing too good in there, I find it hard to add onto the conversations.