The Ring

[Kpax]

I bought this girl a somewhat expensive ring. I'm just one of many, many guys she knows, and I don't know her as well as some of her guy friends. I never got a chance to present it, because one of my roomates told her I got it, and so her older siblings and my roomates have kept me from seeing her or presenting it, claiming that it would be awkward for her. Creepy or weird as it may be, what positive message might there have been in this move? I felt like I had to do something extreme, because there was something that came up that made me think I wouldn't see her for a long time. I wasn't going to even give it to her unless I knew for sure that I wouldn't see her for the prolonged period of time I had feared. I just hope the message got across, if anything. People have been calling me weird, so I haven't called her or anything, and won't until (if) things cool down.

Oh, BTW, I've never talked to her on the phone or visited her at work. I saw her a lot because her brother was one of my roomates. Everyone has told me that she thinks it's weird. I kinda believe them, but is she like... angry do you think? I'm trying to assess what has gone on. I have not been able to see her because one of my roomates (who owns this house) told her not to come because I fell for her so much, and he told me that if I tried to contact her I would be creepy, so I haven't at all.

It seems like the gesture of a lonely guy or "hopeless romantic," and I admit that I can be both of those things, but this certainly, certainly ISN'T something I've made a habit of, or do all the time. I'm not rich. As a matter of fact, I'm way in debt, and this girl knows it. I'm not trying to "buy" her love, but I did intend to be outspoken. Interestingly, I've never, ever given gifts in my life, and somehow word of this idea got out to her older siblings before I even bought the ring, and I could tell that they were trying to bring it up, and she kept telling them not to. All the while I also pretended not to know what they were trying to talk to me about, and played ignorance.

Also, she has no idea what kind of ring it is or what it looks like. All she knows is the price range (>$3000). That's not a lot, is it? Only one person was with me when I got it, and only one person saw me carrying the bag it was in (one of my 3 roomates). I have so far vehemently denied that I ever bought it based on this, and have only gone as far as admitting that I thought about it, and "maybe" browsed a jewelry store.

Coincidentally, the roomate that owns this house is kicking me out next month, not for this controversy, but for having a gun in my closet that I didn't declare (He is very religious and anti-gun), but it didn't really click in my head since he already prohibited this girl from ever coming over anyway, and I had also not planned on presenting it to her until next month, but now I realize, though, that there are very few avenues that I would have a chance to present it, now, and that aforementioned "departure" I had feared, is definitely taking place now. What do I do? I can't see past this.

[Martian]

Umm... chalk it up to experience? Take it back and hopefully get your money back?

Dude, you came on way too strong and way too fast. You spent more than $3000 on a ring for a girl you barely know.

Once again, to make sure that I stress this enough.

You spent over $3000 on a girl you barely know.

The thing is, that's not even your mistake here. Not really. The first mistake you made was letting yourself get too wrapped in a girl who wasn't yours. You got so carried away with the idea that this girl was perfect for you that you kind of left rationality behind. Now this girl who from the sounds of it never really saw you that way to begin with is completely freaked out because you went from being her friend to buying her a massively expensive ring (with all the connotations that go along with that being right there in her head). You've completely skipped over the getting to know each other/falling for each other step and gone right to the major commitment step. So, yeah. The reason she thinks it's a little weird and creepy is because, in all honesty, it sort of is.

Dude, you are not in love with this girl. You're idolizing this girl, but you're not in love with her. How can you be in love with someone you don't even know? You admitted yourself that you don't know her as well as some (most) of her friends. Therefore, any feelings you have for her are based on either her physical appearance or some sort of fictional version of her you've created for herself and it's better for both of you this way. Even if you did get together with her, she wouldn't be able to meet your expectations of who she is, because she's not that girl.

Could you fall in love with her if you got to know her better? Maybe, but I'd say you're better off assuming that's not going to happen at this point. So return the ring if you can, consider this a lesson in relationships and move on with your life.

[abaya]

$3000? Damn, I hope you have the receipt.

Just to give you some perspective, your ring cost a shit-ton more than my engagement ring + wedding band combined. And it was strange enough as it was, for me, to have my husband (after dating for 2.5 years) spend that much money on me... I'd freak out completely if someone I hardly knew bought something like that for me. And I would REALLY freak out if it was something two or three times that in price. I would be even harsher than this girl is being to you, honestly.

I have to ask, what was your thought process that led you to believe that this was an okay thing to do for someone you don't really know?

[Kpax]

Re: Martian, abaya

Well, I really bought it just to have it on-hand. I might never have offered the ring. I was going to use it and offer it in an extreme situation, like, if I found out she was about to date a guy. I knew in my heart that it wouldn't change her mind in a scenario like that, but I wanted to send a message.

When I made the purchase, I theorized that I could just keep it on hand and if I ended up deeming it too extreme an idea, that I could take it back. Now I face consequences for something I didn't really even do. Since no one has actually seen the ring, but "know" I got it, I don't know how I could convince them that I've returned it, even if I really have returned it (which I haven't and probably won't).

I just want to know if anyone here has predictions on what she is thinking right now? She knows a lot of people, and a lot of guys. Is there any positive impression that might've come from this, or is it all "creepiness," even though I never offered the ring at all?

LOL I joked around with her brother, and I kept ranting about the idea that "I might've bought it for someone else," but for some reason he can see through me, and maybe even see the fact that I will never unwrap it from its gift wrapping, nor allow any other girl to...... but I don't know how he can tell how dedicated I am to this. I've tried every verbal method of denial.

[robot_parade]

Kpax,

I can't stress this enough - don't give her the ring. Return it if possible.

I take it you like this girl, and are interested in her. The appropriate thing to do is ask her out. Or not. If she says no - well...do whatever it is you do to deal with the rejection (safely) and move on. If she does say yes, it wouldn't be appropriate to give her a gift of that sort (and price) *except* as an engagement ring. (Personally, I think spending the kind of money you are 'supposed' to spend on engagement rings is just stupid, but that's another story). For the first date, if you're an old-fashioned/romantic kinda guy, maybe some flowers (flowers, not a dozen roses) would be an appropriate gift. Might set you back $50 or something, so only do so if you feel like splurging, and if you're 'that kind' of guy.

Try to put yourself in her shoes - she's hearing from people that some guy she barely knows bought her a $3000 diamond ring. There's no way that isn't creepy. The only reason a guy spends that kind of money on a girl he barely knows is if he's paying for sex, and obviously that isn't your plan. Honestly, if/when you ask her out, she'll probably turn you down because you've hit the 'creepy' button, and as far as I know, there's no way to recover from that. Don't give her the ring. Maybe try to pass it off as just a rumor, or something you did while still drunk from your drinking binge. Return the ring if at all possible.

[abaya]

Originally Posted by robot_parade

Honestly, if/when you ask her out, she'll probably turn you down because you've hit the 'creepy' button, and as far as I know, there's no way to recover from that.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking, though I guess I said that earlier. You got the message across in a more clear way, robot_parade.

Kpax, return that ring and get out of the situation before it gets worse.

[The_Jazz]

Originally Posted by Kpax

Re: Martian, abaya

Well, I really bought it just to have it on-hand. I might never have offered the ring. I was going to use it and offer it in an extreme situation, like, if I found out she was about to date a guy. I knew in my heart that it wouldn't change her mind in a scenario like that, but I wanted to send a message.

When I made the purchase, I theorized that I could just keep it on hand and if I ended up deeming it too extreme an idea, that I could take it back. Now I face consequences for something I didn't really even do. Since no one has actually seen the ring, but "know" I got it, I don't know how I could convince them that I've returned it, even if I really have returned it (which I haven't and probably won't).

I just want to know if anyone here has predictions on what she is thinking right now? She knows a lot of people, and a lot of guys. Is there any positive impression that might've come from this, or is it all "creepiness," even though I never offered the ring at all?

LOL I joked around with her brother, and I kept ranting about the idea that "I might've bought it for someone else," but for some reason he can see through me, and maybe even see the fact that I will never unwrap it from its gift wrapping, nor allow any other girl to...... but I don't know how he can tell how dedicated I am to this. I've tried every verbal method of denial.

Tough love: this is the worst idea I've seen in weeks. And that includes some incredibly bad ones at work that would probably get me sued. You need to stop obsessing about this girl and move on. You admit you don't really know her and that she doesn't really know you. Buying a ring (or really any other piece of jewelry) with the intent of giving it to her if she dates anyone else is off-the-charts strange. I think you need to return the ring and make a solemn vow that you're never going to lay eyes on this girl again for both of your sakes.

Honestly, I have a hard time imagining how you think that this could possibly end up well. If I were her brother, I'd be watching you like a hawk.

[Kpax]

Well, I do know her. I've known her since October or so, I just don't know her as well as her other friends do. I haven't really had one-on-one conversations with her about anything. I'm sure she knows I've had a crush on her. Her older sister tried to bring this matter up (before I bought the ring), I could tell, and she told her not to. So, it's not totally out of the blue.

Her brother has been sleeping with his door open and the bedroom light on. I thought that was weird, but from here I now realize that he may be keeping an eye on me? I don't know. I admit that my actions are sometimes weird and irrational, but I hope I'm not the creep that I might seem to be. Like I said, I have made absolutely no attempt to contact her. It's both out of tact (a concept I use loosely I guess), and fear (shyness-fear).

Anyway at the jeweler, after I had made the purchase and the saleslady was polishing the ring, I was inspecting the carbon-copy receipt, and looked up...... It literally seemed like random patrons were gazing at me, as if they knew what I had just done and what I had planned to do... Sometimes I feel like my life is the "Truman Show."

[abaya]

Originally Posted by Kpax

I haven't really had one-on-one conversations with her about anything.

Okay... Kpax, I don't think you are getting the message here. YOU DON'T KNOW THIS PERSON. I don't mean that you haven't "met" her, but the fact that you have never ACTUALLY spent time with her, is a huge warning signal. Not that you have to "know" someone to have a crush on them, of course, but the fact that you went out and spent $3000 on a fricking RING, and thought that this was normal behavior, concerns me (and other posters here) a great deal. That is really, really not normal behavior. I don't know how else to communicate this more clearly to you. This was NOT the right thing to do in that situation, by any stretch of the imagination.

Could you answer my earlier question, about what was your thought process for why this would be okay? Why a ring? Why that much money? It would be helpful for us to know exactly how your brain got wrapped around this idea, and then we can give you better feedback. Did you see this in a movie or something? Have you had a similar experience with another girl? I just need to understand more about what's going on in your brain here.

I hate to be even more harsh, but what does your issue have to do with the thread subject (first love)? Do you mean to say that you think you love this girl, this person you have never had a real conversation with? This should really be a separate thread, because now it's kind of threadjacked the OP's intent...

[Martian]

Yeah. Usually I'm not one to dogpile, particularly when abaya is involved.

No offense, hon. You're just so much more acerbic than I am. Usually when you're involved, I don't feel the need to add anything.

But in this case I think I can make an exception, mostly because unlike abaya I can at least make an educated guess regarding your thought processes, mostly because I've seen it before. Not taken to this degree, I admit, but I have seen it.

I reckon you meet this girl, you're single, you're lonely. She's reasonably cute and polite to you. So you, being lonely and not really knowing how to approach a girl (or even what you want in a girl, I imagine, though you probably think you do) decide that you have a crush on her. The fact that she's not rude or cruel is, to you, an indication that she likes you. You then build that up until you think maybe she likes you in the way you think you like her. You then begin fantasizing about her and in the process you build up an image of what you think she is. You take what you know and you extrapolate, doing all of this with out any input or knowledge on her part. Eventually you end up with this whole idea of what this girl is and you fall madly in love with it. The problem is, she's not that girl and you're putting unrealistic expectations on her in thinking she is. Further, it was impossible for you not to fall in love with your dream-her, since that's essentially a girl you crafted for yourself. And you, being fairly inexperienced in the affairs of love, are completely unable to distinguish between fantasy girl and real girl, thus resulting in you thinking you're in love with the real one and being unable to stand the idea of her being with anyone else. Meanwhile, this poor girl, from what you've said, is quite clearly not into you. You live with her brother, she may think you're an okay guy, but she has absolutely no romantic interest in you. She also probably knows you have a crush on her, since I have a hunch that you're the type of guy who makes it painfully obvious without even realizing it. So she tries to ignore it and hopes that eventually it'll go away on it's own. Meanwhile, unbeknownst to her, you're turning her into some impossible dream girl in your head instead of getting over it like you should be and suddenly you blindside her with this extravagant and very creepy gesture. She's freaked out, her brother's freaked out and everybody thinks your creepy and you ask us if she may have a positive impression? No, no, a thousand times no.

You cannot possibly be in love with someone you haven't ever talked to. Hollywood bullshit aside, that just doesn't happen. How can you possibly love someone you don't know a damn thing about? Seriously, sit down now and take stock of what you know of her. Not what you think you know, but what you really know. What are her hobbies? Her interests? What does she do for fun? Is she the sort of girl who stays in on a Saturday night? What's her favourite book? Her favourite movie? Her favourite colour? What kind of music does she like? What kind of food does she like? What kind of food doesn't she like? Do you know the answers to any of these questions and even assuming you do, how much of it have you learned from actually talking to her and not ferreting it out like some creepy stalker?

If you think I've been hard on you so far, you might want to hold onto something while you read what's coming next.

I think you need help. I don't mean that as a joke and I'm not stating it lightly. I think you need some serious psychiatric intervention and I think you need to get it as soon as possible, before you do yourself or someone else some major harm. I quite frankly find the way you've fixated on this girl to be so far outside of social norms as to be seriously alarming and I really, honestly think you need to do something about it. Moreover, I think your method of relating to females in general is more than a little fucked up. Over in this thread you state that you've considered suicide solely due to having never had a date as if it's the most normal thing in the world.

Honestly. Normally in this situation I would tell you to get out and meet some girls, to take the plunge and ask one or two out. It would be a way for you to get over the fear of rejection and also figure out what you're looking for in a partner by finding out what you don't want. The thing is, I can't in good conscience tell you to do that, because I am seriously concerned that if you do the first girl who agrees to a date with you will become the next object of your fixation. And I'm afraid that if that happens and things go badly (which, in this scenario, they most definitely will) you will do serious harm to yourself or her.

And there it is. I'm laying it out as plain as I can. Do with it what you will.

[abaya]

Originally Posted by Martian

Yeah. Usually I'm not one to dogpile, particularly when abaya is involved. No offense, hon. You're just so much more acerbic than I am. Usually when you're involved, I don't feel the need to add anything.

Thanks, Martian! You actually just made my day (I mean it).

I think you need help. I don't mean that as a joke and I'm not stating it lightly. I think you need some serious psychiatric intervention and I think you need to get it as soon as possible, before you do yourself or someone else some major harm. I quite frankly find the way you've fixated on this girl to be so far outside of social norms as to be seriously alarming and I really, honestly think you need to do something about it.

This thought passed through my mind while I was reading your posts, Kpax, but I didn't know if it was appropriate to suggest something so directly. Martian has gone ahead and done it, and I agree 100% with him. Have you ever seen a counselor? There is no shame in it... a great number of us on TFP have been to counseling, including myself, and I highly recommend it to you as someone whose relationships have benefited from the experience.

Please take Martian's words seriously. The fact that you did not (and still do not) recognize the error in your buying a $3000 ring for someone you've never sat down and had a conversation with is alarming.

[Kpax]

Yeah, I think I threadjacked. I'm sorry, but an admin contacted me and may be moving all posts to its own area. I thought it has to do with "first love" because this is the most I've done for a crush, and I've had many. As well, this time I was prepared mentally, ahead of time, to be hurt by rejection.*

Yes, I can read into things, too, as was mentioned, but I'm not in this case. I know my chances with her are grim, and they always have been. She knew I like her before this, make no mistake. I don't know why the ring has changed so many things, though.

The ring idea is extreme, I know, but money is no object to me. I'm not rich at all, but I bought the ring just to have it on hand. I might never have offered it.

The idea came up when a friend of mine mentioned buying her a gift for a special occasion coming up for her. He said jokingly, "Well, now that you said that, your gift is going to be really cheap..." As soon as I heard that I realized that I had to send a message, with my own gift, realizing that she would be showered with gifts on this occasion- which is next month. The ring was supposed to be that gift. I have a strong policy that is anti-gift, meaning, I don't and never have given a gift to anyone, but how could a guy that likes her be the only one who didn't buy anything? So, I decided to go all-out. If my gift were to be rejected, the last reason I wanted it to be was for lack of value. I was going to present this gift in front of everyone... and if not then, this ring was also going to be as a last resort. *I was going to use it in the event that I might've found out that she was about to date a guy. I was going to do something extreme by offering this ring (and a few words), and maybe change her mind and talk her out of it. So, the keyphrase is "last resort." Even then I didn't think that gesture would change any girl's mind, but a one-way message is important to me in an uchangeable situation.

The disaster is in the fact that she found out, and even though it hasn't been seen by anyone, the aftermath has been as much as though I had offered it to her already, which I didn't. I've denied buying it, and yet showing just the packaging to one person is enough to where everyone knows and believes that I have it, so basically what that means is even if I did take it back, it wouldn't do any good, because I have tried to lie about that, too.

Anyway, do you guys think I will get to talk to her again?

[The_Jazz]

OK, I've set this up in a separate thread with Kpax's approval. I think that this conversation is best set here to allow the First Love thread to remain intact.

Kpax, I think you may have missed the importance that many women assign to rings as presents. Something with the exact same amount and types of materials formed into a necklace or bracelet have completely different connotations. In other words, ring = marriage. If you're not very tight with this girl, which by all accounts seems to be true, then that's a very strange message to be sending. There's also the issue that you don't want her to date anyone else and that this ring was a pre-emptive move meant to remove that possibility. Honestly, that's just wrong.

Personally, I think you need to return the ring immediately. Get your money back and get rid of it. You can't give it to her now, and you're only going to cause yourself further embarrassment by keeping it around. The longer it's around the longer it's a potential problem.

Then I think you need to stop drinking and seek professional help, if for no other reason than to talk through your problems. You just need someone to give you some advice on how to be a little happier in life, and a professional is there to do exactly that.

[jth]

I think you've dug yourself so deep a whole that you're chances of having any sort of relationship, friendship or otherwise is pretty much zero.

She no doubt thinks you are a creep and potiential stalker and her only solice is that her Brother is your room mate which probably makes her feel safe to a certain extent. Buying gifts for people is all well and good, but for people you only know in passing eg;She's my Room mate's sister, I see her time to time but at your own admission haven't had a conversation 1 on 1 means you don't know her. Buying her a Birthday card would be seen as sweet. Buying her a trinket at a kiosk down town might be seen as generous. Buying her a $3k ring would be seen as Stalker/Creepy/Crazy.

Basically most Women I know see Jewelry as something you buy for Mom, Sisters, Grandma, Godparents and your Girl. Outside of that it is crossing a boundry that you've stomped all over. Which is I think the heart of the issue is that you have come very close to crossing the line, and offering her the gift would be crossing it.

Seeing as this has been going on for a while, I would summize that she has played the scenario out in her head already and either thinks you're a bit weird or all out crazy. She might even take the ring if you offer it but then pawn or sell it off for a quick pay day. Or she may do what's right and refuse the gift and tell you to leave her alone.

As for ever getting to see her again, I'm sure she will. After all, her Brother is your room mate and while one can avoid a confrontation no doubt you will see each other rarely and I promise it will be very awkward and I doubt it will be one on one unless you manage to get her alone only to explain or apologize for this mistake.

As for what to do with the ring. You have Two options. Return or Pawn it to get money back or you can Keep it. However keep it to give it to someone else when you meet the Woman you want to marry. This is what Diamond rings are for, engagement, not "Hi I think you're special" sorts of gifts. If you have a Girl you want to date and you start to date her then buying her earings, or a necklace would be appropreate but not a diamond ring until you're ready for the commitment of her being your Wife and you being her Husband.

[pig]

ditto on abaya and martian's advice kpax. i don't know how to put this gently, really...but i don't mean this to be offensive. there are so many things wrong with this scenario that i don't really know where to start. i think they've all been covered above; what i don't understand is your confusion on this. at all. this whole situation and the thought processes behind it are just chock full of bad ideas and ill-conceived notions of how people relate. everyone knows you bought the ring because one of them saw you with it, and because you've probably been scoping this girl out every second she's around. yeah, you've sent major creepy vibes to the whole group of them, and if i were you i'd cut ties to the whole thing. and i would get thee to a counselor as soon as you can. i know it might seem embarassing, but i think the best thing you can do is start with a clean slate and some more well formed concepts on interpersonal relationships. best of luck.

[Kadath]

Go talk to a therapist. Soon. The reason you don't think your behavior is inappropriate is you are the only one analyzing it. Everyone here agrees that what you are doing is not normal or acceptable. You need to pull yourself out of this now. Don't be around her any more.

[Kpax]

LOL I know what impression this may have set, this story I mean... but...

1) I never offered the ring, nor did I plan to, and since no one saw it, it is as good as non-existent (IMHO).

2) Can't really take it back or attempt a backtracking of sorts. This whole situation is based on belief (that I bought the ring, which I did), but not on physical proof (although, I did buy the ring). So, they won't believe me if I say I took it back...

3) I continue to deny that I bought it to certain people, to her brother, to her (I would if she asked, I mean)... I only open up about it to the other two roomates...

4) I have, as you guys have admonished, totally and completely left her alone since, although, I never called her, texted her, or visited her at her work (which her family owns), even prior to this, nor would I now, knowing the situation...

5) When she hid from me that one day, my roomate quoted her later as saying, "I still like him (as a friend). Why does it have to be like this?" Make no mistake, I didn't read into that as her liking me, besides as a friend, but that in itself tells me that there is still hope. I mean, how can she be creeped out? I never offered the ring.

6) Yesterday, I overheard her talking to my other roomate, who was going to Seattle with her brother. He said, "Well, you'll have to park out in the front, but we'll just hurry and hop into (so-and-so's) car..." It's obvious that they were trying to sneak past me. This was a bit heartwrenching.

7) It may sound like I have a drinking problem. I drank heavily that night because my other roomate (the one that owns this house) announced that his mom was peeved at how messy the house is (not really that messy), and that we would all have to disperse in two months. That's what got me drinking, and gave me a sense of urgency to buy the ring. I didn't think I would see this girl again if I didn't live with her brother. Oh, and the drink made me stupidly reveal that I had a Taurus revolver in my closet, and so now I have to leave this house even earlier (by this Friday, in fact).

I appreciate the counsel I have read here, though. Ordinarily I would be going crazy over how this has went, but my main goal was to send a message (not creepiness, though). What keeps me sane is that I still have the ring, can still use it, and that it wasn't me who failed, but the ones who told her about it prematurely. Hopefully she'll remember me as I move away...

[seretogis]

Though I am typically known as being a sensitive and benevolent soul.. *pause for laughter* .. I am going to give it to you straight:

You have lost touch with reality. Entirely. You need to immediately seek psychiatric help before you do anything dangerous with that gun you hid in your closet. The fact that you set off the creepy-alarm with her, her friends, her family, your friends, and everyone who has replied to this thread should give you some indication that perhaps the version of reality which your head is buried in is not the real world.

The fact that you don't understand how bizarre your actions or subsequent attempts to re-make reality, show that you really need to get some professional help. Stop drinking, sell the ring, and spend that money on a few dozen therapy sessions.

[Martian]

You are so not even paying attention to anything we tell you. You're hearing what you want to hear. Stop it.

Originally Posted by Kpax

2) Can't really take it back or attempt a backtracking of sorts. This whole situation is based on belief (that I bought the ring, which I did), but not on physical proof (although, I did buy the ring). So, they won't believe me if I say I took it back...

Get rid of it anyway. The truth is always better than a lie. Telling people you don't have the ring when you do is just creating a situation with the potential to bite you in the ass, and you do not need this item. When the time comes to give a girl that sort of gift, you can go get another. That future girl will appreciate something bought for her more and it sounds like, being blunt, you're a long way from anything like that right now anyway.

Originally Posted by Kpax

5) When she hid from me that one day, my roomate quoted her later as saying, "I still like him (as a friend). Why does it have to be like this?" Make no mistake, I didn't read into that as her liking me, besides as a friend, but that in itself tells me that there is still hope. I mean, how can she be creeped out? I never offered the ring.

But she was still hiding from you. She doesn't want anything to do with you right now and if I were you I wouldn't anticipate that changing any time soon.

Originally Posted by Kpax

6) Yesterday, I overheard her talking to my other roomate, who was going to Seattle with her brother. He said, "Well, you'll have to park out in the front, but we'll just hurry and hop into (so-and-so's) car..." It's obvious that they were trying to sneak past me. This was a bit heartwrenching.

See above. What gets me is that you're surprised by something like this.

Originally Posted by Kpax

I appreciate the counsel I have read here, though. Ordinarily I would be going crazy over how this has went, but my main goal was to send a message (not creepiness, though). What keeps me sane is that I still have the ring, can still use it, and that it wasn't me who failed, but the ones who told her about it prematurely. Hopefully she'll remember me as I move away...

No, no. It was most definitely you.

You want to send a girl a message? You buy her dinner. You buy her flowers. A teddy bear. These are all actions that send a message, specifically the message 'I am romantically interested in you.' Buying her a $3000 diamond ring is either 'I want to marry you' or 'I'm going to give this to you as payment for sex.' Are either of those the message you wanted to send?

How are you expecting to use this ring? The girl you originally bought it for doesn't even want to be in the same room as you, and frankly I really can't say I blame her. And any girl in the future is going to wonder why you just happen to have a very expensive diamond ring lying around.

I'm not sure what you expected here. You say that the people who failed are the ones who told her you bought her this ring. Do you honestly think things would have gone any better if you'd had the chance to surprise her with it?

[pig]

to follow up martian and this whole 'failure' thing...dude, you're just not getting it. this isn't some sort of quest or japanese soap opera. i'll tell you this much: if a roommate of mine met my sister a few times (over the period of october of 2006 - may 2007), never had a conversation with her, never took her out, never hung out with her when we weren't in a group...and then i found out that he'd bought her a $3000 ring as a "gift" to "send a message" and "keep her from going out with another guy" i would have "failed the shit out of his ass" and told my sister. i would then have "kicked him out my house" while "sleeping with the lights on" and then i would "break all ties with him." the only difference between me and your roommate is that you and i would have already had a nice long talk about this situation.

i stand by the advice that you need to seek counseling, but if you're not going to do that, then you need to really sit back and meditate on this situation. if you're in college, you probably have free counseling available, at least for a set number of sessions. i'd take advantage of that.

if it were MY little sister?

[Sultana]

You are not taking any responsibility for your actions. You ask for input, and then *completely* justify yourself, every step of the way.

Return the goddamn ring.
Sell/legally get rid of the goddamn gun.
Move out.
Leave the girl ALONE.
Get into counseling IMMEDIATELY.

NO more excuses. NO more justification. You've lost the girl (not that you had her in any way before), your housing, your credibility. You need to put the breaks on the situation before you lose more.

[lurkette]

kpax, you're kind of missing the point. I'm going to be blunt, because you don't seem to be getting it.

That you even THOUGHT of buying this girl you barely know a $3000 ring as a "gesture" in case of an "extreme situation" (like her dating someone else) is weird and inappropriate. We're all telling you this. It doesn't matter whether you gave it to her or not. This is way over the top and the main message it sends is that you have no clue how to interact with women and you're living in some kind of fantasy world. What did you expect her reaction to be? If you think it would be anything but "geez, how weird, this guy I hardly know is giving me a gift worth more than many husbands present to their brides" you're delusional. It's not a romantic gesture. A romantic gesture for a woman you don't know well would be finding out her favorite flowers and having them delivered to her office. Or making her a mix tape of her favorite bands. If you'd been dating a woman for a year or more, then maybe a $3000 ring would be a romantic gesture. In this case, it's JUST PLAIN CREEPY. It's beyond all proportion for what your relationship with her actually is, and it says that 1. you have blown her up in your mind to some objectified ideal, and 2. you lack judgment.

If you like a girl and want to send a message, how about SAYING to her "I really like you and would like to spend some time with you" instead of blowing the equivalent of several months' salary on a "gesture?"

I echo the advice to find counseling. Your cognitive and emotional gears are obviously not meshing, and it's probably not just in this situation.

Best of luck.

[Kpax]

One of my roomates said, "You've been kinda living in your own world lately..." I guess it's true... I am selling two of my three guns, but guns aren't the culprit here. My roomates are just strongly anti-gun.

I've faced adversity before, although this kinda traverses new realms.

As far as the "severing of ties" goes, well, it looks just like they're doing that right now.

You should've seen me just a year ago. I was super-shy, super conservative, and didn't have a social life at all. I couldn't even order my own food at McDonald's for being so timid. That might've driven me crazy. Right after I met a friend (first in a long time), over the summer, I've tried to do everything differently, live life differently, and although it sounds insane, I feel better and more satisfied (I met everybody else through this new friend). I'm no longer painting model airplanes or singing karaoke by myself on a Friday night (so to speak). Life has become a bit treacherous, though. First the alcohol (I used to hate alcohol with a passion; still kinda do), then the guns (although anti-gun sentiment is the only big deal with these), and some other things (like maxing out three credit cards just to keep this all up).

.........but it looks like things will return to the way they were, not that I'm happy about it. I'm actually more scared of going back to the old life. It'll be just like a "15 minutes of fame" phenomenon, but it'll give me plenty of time to reflect.

[eribrav]

Kpax I do feel for you. You have some serious emotional issues that are clearly painful, and are likely to cause you more pain in the future, no matter whether you face them head on or allow them to continue without directly addressing them.

Having said that, the combination of episodic alcohol abuse, along with your difficulty dealing with reality and the presence of the handgun is a dangerous one. I don't know the rules of Washington state but you need to either find a trusted friend to hold your guns securely, or turn them into local law enforcement for safe keeping. There's a real potential for you to make a tragic mistake. Avoiding alcohol and taking the guns out of the picture might help you avoid a situation you could regret for the rest of your life.

[Martian]

Why I'm writing this now, I don't know. I'm beginning to think it would be slightly more productive to write these things on a piece of paper and burn it, for all the impact it's having.

KPax, we have tried to be tactful. We have tried to be your friend. In return you've just sort of ignored us and gone on your merry way in make-believe world. So I'm going to spell this out as plainly as I can in the hopes that you will read it and understand.

The guns are not the issue. The ring is not the issue. YOU are the issue. You are not dealing with anything in a normal way, from what I can see.

I have been on many dates with many girls. Relationships are not new to me. There was one specific girl I fully intended on marrying. We were together for over a year and in all of that time I never once considered buying her a piece of jewelery so extravagant as to cost $3000 or more.

Compare and contrast with your current situation. You're dealing with a girl you barely know and you spend that kind of money on her. Whether or not you gave it to her or even intended to do so is totally irrelevant. The very fact that you would conceive of the idea of buying something like this for a girl who you not only are not dating but have never even talked to, that is the issue and it displays a complete lack of understanding for how the world works. Now you're throwing yourself a pity party because your friends don't want anything to do with you anymore, without even seeming to understand why you're in that situation. Do you comprehend, do you even have an idea as to what it is you've done to alienate these people?

You don't need to "go back to the old life" and you don't need "time to reflect." You need help. You need it sooner rather than later. You have gotten so lost in the land of make-believe that I honestly don't think you'll ever find your way back to the real world without someone to guide you. Therapy. Go. Now. Go today, if possible, but just go.

[Carno]

You are extremely creepy. Even having the idea to buy a ring for a girl you don't know is creepy to the max.

Seriously. You are scary.

[shesus]

People have been writing very long pieces of advice to you.

I don't think you're getting it.

Return the ring. It's way over the top. I would have gotten a restraining order on any guy that did that to me. It's stalkish and creepy...like making life size sculptures of people and talking to them.

Get professional help. You need to realize that this is not normal behavior.

The sooner you do those 2 things, the sooner you'll be more out of debt and in reality.

[lurkette]

I just want to say that, although we're all saying a lot of rather harsh things, we are saying them out of concern and love for you.

It's great that your life took a different direction and you came out of your shell. But it doesn't sound like it necessarily went in an entirely healthy direction. This incident doesn't have to mean going back to the "old way" of being, though. If you can be brutally open and honest with yourself, and can look clearly at what happened, you may be able to see what is in the way of you relating to people. I really do wish you well, and hope you can find the help you need to pull yourself out of your shell.

[Carno]

Not me.

[ratbastid]

Reading over this thread, there's one thing that strikes me... Well, I take that back, several things strike me, but there's one that hasn't really been touched on yet.

Several times you've said you had intended to "use" the ring, or that you intended it to "send a message".

The main function that money has, when it comes to any sort of interpersonal relationship, is communication. How we use money, where it relates to other people, is always intended to communicate something. So, laying aside for the moment the symbolism of it being a ring, my question is: what did you intend to "use" that $3000 gift for? What "message" did you intend that it send? What was her reaction going to be? What did you want to get out of it?

Although it's a vain hope, I know, I do hope you'll look at those questions honestly. What you're dealing with right now is the dissonance between all THAT, and all the things that actually happened in the actual world. So you want to start dealing with this by getting your head around exactly what your intentions and expectations were. Until you do this, you'll never be able to claw your way out of "creepy" in her eyes and the eyes of her siblings and your roommates.

[Supple Cow]

Oh my god.





Oh my god.

MAYBE IF I SCREAM YOU WILL HEAR ME BECAUSE MOST OF THE OTHER RATIONAL PEOPLE AROUND HERE ARE BEING TOO QUIET AND NICE.

YOU ARE NOT CREEPY. YOU ARE NOT SCARY. YOU ARE A DANGEROUS, DANGEROUS, DANGEROUS PERSON WITH PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES. THE FIRST 'DANGEROUS' IS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE YOU (WITH THE PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES AND ALL). THE SECOND IS BECAUSE YOU ARE TELLING US ALL OF THESE REALLY WRONG, WRONG THINGS AND CONVINCING YOURSELF PUBLICLY THAT THEY ARE OKAY AND EVEN GOOD. THE THIRD IS BECAUSE YOU OWN GUNS AND YOU ARE CLEARLY UNSTABLE. (I AM NOT ANTI-GUN. I LIKE GUNS. I AM ALSO IN FAVOR OF PEOPLE NOT BEING GUNNED DOWN BY UNSTABLE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE ENOUGH TO GET HELP.)

PLEASE COMMIT YOURSELF NOW. A RUN-OF-THE-MILL THERAPIST WILL NOT HELP ENOUGH. THEY CANNOT.

IT SOUNDS LIKE THAT CHICK AND HER BROTHER AND ALL OF THOSE FRIENDS ARE JUST WAITING UNTIL YOU LEAVE BECAUSE THEY ARE TERRIFIED OF YOU. LIKE PISS IN THEIR PANTS IF YOU MANAGE TO GET ONE OF THEM ALONE IN A ROOM TERRIFIED. YOU CAN BET THEY ALREADY HAVE A RESTRAINING ORDER WAITING TO BE FILED.

PLEASE DON'T HURT ANYONE. IF YOU HURT THEM IN MAKE-BELIEVE LAND, YOU HURT THEM FOR REAL.

Originally Posted by Kpax

That might've driven me crazy.

Too late.

[Kpax]

Okay, okay.

I will never, ever, ever return the ring where I bought it. Too embarrassing, and the saleslady asked me a lot of questions like, "What's her name?" "How long have you two known each other?" It isn't anything like that (as I am WELL-AWARE), so I was reluctant to answer them...

HOWEVER... I may consider taking it to a jewelry exchange (They also purchase outright). Is that satisfactory? I hate when my goals go all awry, because they all do, no matter how "safe." Anyway, that would be the easiest thing. I can make up any story I want, as I turn it in to be appraised or whatever...

Another thing is: What proof is there that the ring is for her? I've made no attempts, whatsoever, in the aftermath of this to present it to her, and given the present prognosis, there is a 90% chance that I won't. Besides, it is in my name, certificate and all. Again, there is a 90% chance that I will just give up on the idea- only after reading these posts, though.


As for the "message," that was meant to be a message of despair- only to happen if I got really depressed over her. God knows, I might've just decided not to use it at all, in any case. It was my thought that I had the chance to decide this BEFORE I gave the ring. Apparently not. Apparently, purchasing an item is tantamount to not only presenting it, but then I also have no chance of deciding what my own mentality is on the matter (Not venting at you guys, just venting at the situation and all those involved in the forefront).

So, you can all relax. I do defy convention sometimes. I mean, I don't see how I'm bound by the traditions conjured by people long ago who I have no relation to, but after this, I've learned that tradition, etiquette, and tact are supreme laws ne'er to be defied. I'm not being sarcastic at all. I think what others did centuries ago that created precedent are really, really, really etched into society as supremely standard. That's kind of scary. Honestly, I feel like I'm living in the Dark Ages, and have become sort of a heretic for defying convention, even though I only did so in intent, and not in deed. The "deed" will most-likely not happen.

Don't fret, though. Whether I understand the 'why' or not, I DO see that others are shocked by this, and will act according to that, whether I agree with it or not.

Again, thank you for your counsel. It may seem like it is going in one ear and out the other, but I have taken to heart a great many things here.

On the bright side of things, the owner of the house (the roomate whose mom owns the house), has changed his mind and no doubt with the agreement of the other two roomates, will allow me to stay until the end of July, which was the original time, albeit "with conditions," which he said he will discuss with me later.

Thank you all for your advice. I HAVE listened, though not mechanically (not word-for-word).

Maybe my act is the start of a new sort of viewpoint, where no stone or mineral has any pre-concieved message or meaning, and that it's giver gets to decide what its connotation implies.

[shesus]

Take it back to the store. You'll get ripped off any other way.

Embarrassed? I'd be embarrassed to spend that much on a girl I have had little to no contact with. You should already be embarrassed...now get your finances taken care of.

I still say you're crazy and need help...but at least realize that you are sitting on $3000+ that you are throwing out the window.

Hell, give me $3000 if you're just going to be irresponsible with money.

[Supple Cow]

I don't even know why anyone is trying to talk to you, but you're just SO EFFING SCARY that it feels like a crime not to at least try.

No, we are not reflecting society's generations of tradition. It's fucking creepy to even think of "sending a message" like that to a girl who is clearly just another object in your twisted world view. I keep imagining you standing in a sea of blood still not understanding as a police officer has to take you out. Is that what you want? Will it feel real then?

[Kpax]

Well, it may be too late to take it back. I'm not really concerned with that. Money is not too important to me, although perhaps it should be...

I'm sorry if this story is "scary." IMMHO, academics and hypotheticals have ruled every aspect of this situation from the beginning.

Isn't it a bit intriguing how much calamity such a simple thing as a ring can cause? They didn't write books about it for nothing.

I'll get rid of it somehow.

On the other hand this might be the most significant change TFP has brought upon a life? Am I right? I've only been here for a couple weeks. You've convinced me to do what I was not going to do.

[JumpinJesus]

Put me in the same camp as those saying you're scary as hell. You sound like you have this tunnel vision regarding the ring and nothing is going to change that.

And it's not the ring causing the calamity; it's your insane insistence that somehow since no one can prove you were going to give her the ring, that what you're doing is perfectly normal. What are you keeping the ring for?

Are the police going to find it on her dead finger? Because to be honest, that's kind of what it sounds like, to me at least.

[Carno]

We all understand you won't give it to her (most likely). The scary part is that you ever bought the ring. That it ever even occurred to you to buy a ring "just in case" to give to some poor girl in order to make some kind of gesture; that is weird.

[Supple Cow]

'LA LA LA...
My name is Kpax
and I'm not scary at all!
LA lala LA LAA...
None of this is about ME,
it's all about the RING
and Society!
Whee!!!!'




Yikes.


Man, PLEASE acknowledge that you are responsible for yourself before the non-existent boundary between living and non-living in your brain leads to something bad. What you do with the ring and the guns doesn't really matter. They'll keep all of that for you while you heal and you can figure out what to do with your trash later.

[The_Dunedan]

OK, I don't usually jump in on things like this, Kpax, but there's something you need to consider.

This girl has a brother. Brothers get very protective of their sisters.

Now, speaking as an official Scary Overprotective Big Brother, lemme clue you in on what's probably going through this guy's head. His thought-process probably runs something like this;

Front sight! Press! Front Sight!

What this means, in non-technical language, is that advancing further on this person's sister has a significant chance of shortening your lifespan rather drastically. If -my- sister were being persued by my roomate in the way you're persuing this person, I would be watching said roomate like a hawk to make sure he didn't try anything stupid or crazy.

And if he -did- try such a thing, the consequences would be swift and potentially lethal. You don't go acting creepy around some dude's sister. Bad move. Calling the cops would be the -best- you could hope for, and that would probably come after some significant violence.

Understand, even if you're trying to do the right thing here, you're sending some extremely creepy vibes. You're displaying an obsessive pattern of behavior coupled with an inability or near-total unwillingness to analyze your actions and attitudes. This is a dangerous enough set of behaviors that her brother is probably doing a whole lot more than sleeping with his light on, like sleeping with Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson nearby.

Get rid of the ring. Sell it, hock it, smash it with a hammer, but get rid of it. Not only is it creepy as hell, it's a physical reminder of some extremely unhealthy emotions from which you need to distance yourself as much as possible.

(God, I never thought I'd say this to anyone ever...)
Get rid of the guns. All of them. If you keep this up, you're going to lose them anyway when the Restraint Order is filed or you get hit with felony stalking charges; both of which are looking like very realistic outcomes.

Move out. ASAP. You're in a bad situation where you are now, and physical distance can help you get your head straight. It also lessens the chances of an embarassing encounter with the lady in question.

You, my friend, are playing dangerous games here, the kind of games where people's lives* and sanities* are put at serious risk by your behavior. Take the advice of the people here, most of whom are smarter than I: get help. Quickly.

*Your own life as well.

[seretogis]

Edit: I decided this wasn't even worth saying.