Ageism - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

StanT · 02-08-2005, 06:59 PM

From the Tilted Parenting Forum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

There is such a thing as 'ageism', the mistreatment of people because of their age.

Ageists assume that their experience trumps any experience of those younger then them, therefore they are always right. Of course, that is absurd, as every child in the world has at least some experience that his or her parents have not experienced.

And from the "Do a good deed, get sued" topic, in regards to a 49 year old woman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowchef

I know 10:30 isnt LATE by any means, but they KNEW the lady was elderly and to most people that have families and the elderly 10:30 is late.

After checking the birthday in my profile, I find I'm weeks away from being "elderly".

Ageism clearly goes both ways. Experienced middle aged workers are getting laid off, college hires will work for less. College graduates can't find jobs, without experience. What are your experiences with ageism?

sadistikdreams · 02-08-2005, 07:21 PM

It's simply another form of prejudice. Stereotypes being reinforced by ingnorant people. Thats all.

Willravel · 02-08-2005, 07:23 PM

You're right in correcting me. There absolutely are two sides to ageism. Where older people can think that younger people are foolish, inexperienced, and unworthy of responsibility, older people are treated as if they were all senile and out of touch with not only the modern world, but reality. It's a shame that people feel this way, because there is a lot to learn from both groups. Both groups bring some wonderful things to the social table. Younger people have fresh prspectives and may not have been corrupted by the less savory aspects of life yet. Elderly people have tons of experience and knowledge to share. The elderly are the key to history. In many societies, the elderly are respected and heald up like gods. There is a reason behind this belief. The elderly are the heads of the family.

49 is far from elderly. That was probably just some 18 year old (if that) who's perceptions aren't connected with reality yet. Elderly in my mind is maybe in the late 60s. When and if I call someone elderly, it is because of how they feel though. My grandmother is 77 years old and still runs every morning. I'd never call her elderly. In my mind she will always be young. I know it sounds cliche, but "elderly" is a state of mind.

Just my 2 cents.

StanT · 02-08-2005, 08:13 PM

I've seen ageism from both sides in the workplace. Guys with 20 years of experience that have been laid off and can't get rehired because their salary history is too high or their experience is too specialized. The "can't teach an old dog, new tricks" approach or the "we don't want to get stuck with your insurance or retirement" one. I've also interviewed people for jobs where the experience requirements (unfairly) couldn't possibly be met by someone under 30.
Both of my daughters are facing a tough time in the workplace, both have been laid off and face a tough time competing for jobs with people that have years of experience.
My paternal grandparents could polka most 20 year olds into the dirt while they were in their 80's. My maternal grandmother was as sharp as could be until she died at 97. My daughters will not ride on the back of my motorcycle, nor will they follow me down a chute on skis. Age is relative, I see some of my daughter's friends that are 20 going on 60.

And Will, I was more amused than anything else. That's why I started the topic. However, I won't be sharing the elderly tag with my wife. I'd like to get laid again in 2005.

K-Wise · 02-08-2005, 08:26 PM

Yeah we all know my experiances with Ageism and yer totally right about both ways. Ya know it's funny but if you look up an older post of mine here in discussion where I was talking about walking my dog. That was another case of Ageism. The guy who harrassed me assumed I was a young punk and I didn't tell him off because I was taught to respect my elders. Ageism definitely.

Asta!!

MSD · 02-08-2005, 08:48 PM

Everyone wants to think that they're right. If that means that they discriminate against another age group as a whole because of differences in opinion, that's what they'll do because agreeing to disagree is admitting weakness or unwillingness to admit the possibility of fault.

flstf · 02-08-2005, 09:11 PM

I think the age issue works both ways. In my twenties I remember how hard it was to get a really good salary due to lack of experience. Once you hit your thirties though things get better and it seems like good paying jobs are plentiful. This lasts until about the time you hit your fifties and then you become almost surplus unless you have senority benefits like government employees. This seems to be especially true with companies that have a low growth rate after years of high growth and are desperate to cut expenses to show a good bottom line.

I don't think age and experience always trumps youth. Inexperienced young people who approach things with an open mind are often preferable to older experienced folks who are too set in their ways. When I find myself starting to think about today's youth negatively I try to remind myself what my father's generation thought about us.

Squishor · 02-08-2005, 09:56 PM

I think that most of the time when we find ourselves wedged into a narrow little box, it's because we put ourselves there. I am proud to say that I've managed to overcome the ageism that I was raised with.

My mother's generation (in the 60s) tried to tell me that older people were hopelessly square and no longer relevant, but I saw some things for myself that made me think again. One thing that made a huge impression on me when I was much younger was once when I witnessed a flock of over-70 folks dancing to Michael Jackson at a country club luau. I hated Michael Jackson, and never would have considered even listening to his stuff, much less dancing. I realized that they were far more open-minded than me - what an eye opener! These people were Bing Crosby fans, yet they were willing to loosen up and have a good time regardless of how strange and new the music was for them. I had already been open to friendships with adults, but after that I realized I needed to open my attitude even further and let "elderly" people in as well.

Currently, one of my very best friends is 64 or so, and I have other friends who are 21 or 22. Over the years I've had many good friendships with people significantly older than myself - now that I'm old enough to be thought of as such, I do my best to keep an open mind about younger people and extend the same openness to them that my older friends did to me. When I was younger, I hated the way people talked down to me and never seemed to take me seriously or believe I could possibly be thinking anything worthwhile. So now I take the time to listen and respect those younger than myself.

I still can't deal with those stupid baggy pants though.

alicat · 02-08-2005, 09:59 PM

Ageism deffinately goes both ways. My Grandmother (bless her, she just passed last July) grew up during the depression. She was constantly on me about the value of things. My husband and I have had hard times for most of our 16 yrs. together, and before that I was pretty poor my entire life growing up.

Hubby and I have done without most extrainious things for along time and when he was laid off for the better part of two years, the only entertainment we had period was basic cable T.V. and the Internet. And I mean period, we didn't go out to eat, party or buy anything other than food and pay our rent and utilities.

Our only entertainment in life was watching T.V. or crusing the web (or me checking books out of the library, leaving hubby to find something to do while I read) and yet my Grandmother admonished me for not knowing what it is like to do without. That my generation (the hated title Gen-Xer's) doesn't know what sacrifice means. That really pissed me off! Just because I didn't have a victory garden or use green stamps doesn't mean I haven't suffered or gone without in my life, far from it! It wasn't my fault that my situation at 30 was different than hers at 30, the world changes and therefore each generations situation changes from the one before it.

Younger people discriminate against older people definitaly, but vice versa is also true.

Ali

Cervantes · 02-09-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Everyone wants to think that they're right. If that means that they discriminate against another age group as a whole because of differences in opinion, that's what they'll do because agreeing to disagree is admitting weakness or unwillingness to admit the possibility of fault.

That pretty much sums up my thought about this aswell, Ageism is pretty humuliating.
Too young or too old, whatever, we are all humans trying to survive in this world. Dissing someone because of their age is pretty narrowminded in my opinion.

frogza · 02-09-2005, 12:21 PM

I have always looked very young for my age, I'm 30 now and people consistently gues I'm 20-22. On many occasions I have been treated in a condiscending way because people assume I'm too young to have any real life experience. Yet I have been entirely responsable for supporting myself for half my life. (Yea I know that puts me at 15, that's another story) During that time I have learned a thing or two. But since I have a "baby face" it's generaly assumed that I have a baby's wisdom. I think that my experience has given me enough perspective on age and what it means that I don't really judge people by their age, but by how they percieve themselves.

02-08-2005, 07:21 PM	#2 (permalink)
sadistikdreams lonely rolling star Location: Seattle.	It's simply another form of prejudice. Stereotypes being reinforced by ingnorant people. Thats all. __________________ "Besides the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of leaving things undone. The wisdom of life consists in the elimination of non-essentials." -Lin Yutang hearts, by d.a.

02-08-2005, 08:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	Yeah we all know my experiances with Ageism and yer totally right about both ways. Ya know it's funny but if you look up an older post of mine here in discussion where I was talking about walking my dog. That was another case of Ageism. The guy who harrassed me assumed I was a young punk and I didn't tell him off because I was taught to respect my elders. Ageism definitely. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

02-08-2005, 09:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
alicat Baffled Location: West Michigan	Ageism deffinately goes both ways. My Grandmother (bless her, she just passed last July) grew up during the depression. She was constantly on me about the value of things. My husband and I have had hard times for most of our 16 yrs. together, and before that I was pretty poor my entire life growing up. Hubby and I have done without most extrainious things for along time and when he was laid off for the better part of two years, the only entertainment we had period was basic cable T.V. and the Internet. And I mean period, we didn't go out to eat, party or buy anything other than food and pay our rent and utilities. Our only entertainment in life was watching T.V. or crusing the web (or me checking books out of the library, leaving hubby to find something to do while I read) and yet my Grandmother admonished me for not knowing what it is like to do without. That my generation (the hated title Gen-Xer's) doesn't know what sacrifice means. That really pissed me off! Just because I didn't have a victory garden or use green stamps doesn't mean I haven't suffered or gone without in my life, far from it! It wasn't my fault that my situation at 30 was different than hers at 30, the world changes and therefore each generations situation changes from the one before it. Younger people discriminate against older people definitaly, but vice versa is also true. Ali __________________ 'Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun, The frumious Bandersnatch!'--Jabberwocky, Lewis Carroll "You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson Last edited by alicat; 02-08-2005 at 10:08 PM..

02-08-2005, 07:23 PM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	You're right in correcting me. There absolutely are two sides to ageism. Where older people can think that younger people are foolish, inexperienced, and unworthy of responsibility, older people are treated as if they were all senile and out of touch with not only the modern world, but reality. It's a shame that people feel this way, because there is a lot to learn from both groups. Both groups bring some wonderful things to the social table. Younger people have fresh prspectives and may not have been corrupted by the less savory aspects of life yet. Elderly people have tons of experience and knowledge to share. The elderly are the key to history. In many societies, the elderly are respected and heald up like gods. There is a reason behind this belief. The elderly are the heads of the family. 49 is far from elderly. That was probably just some 18 year old (if that) who's perceptions aren't connected with reality yet. Elderly in my mind is maybe in the late 60s. When and if I call someone elderly, it is because of how they feel though. My grandmother is 77 years old and still runs every morning. I'd never call her elderly. In my mind she will always be young. I know it sounds cliche, but "elderly" is a state of mind. Just my 2 cents.

02-08-2005, 08:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I've seen ageism from both sides in the workplace. Guys with 20 years of experience that have been laid off and can't get rehired because their salary history is too high or their experience is too specialized. The "can't teach an old dog, new tricks" approach or the "we don't want to get stuck with your insurance or retirement" one. I've also interviewed people for jobs where the experience requirements (unfairly) couldn't possibly be met by someone under 30. Both of my daughters are facing a tough time in the workplace, both have been laid off and face a tough time competing for jobs with people that have years of experience. My paternal grandparents could polka most 20 year olds into the dirt while they were in their 80's. My maternal grandmother was as sharp as could be until she died at 97. My daughters will not ride on the back of my motorcycle, nor will they follow me down a chute on skis. Age is relative, I see some of my daughter's friends that are 20 going on 60. And Will, I was more amused than anything else. That's why I started the topic. However, I won't be sharing the elderly tag with my wife. I'd like to get laid again in 2005.

02-08-2005, 08:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Everyone wants to think that they're right. If that means that they discriminate against another age group as a whole because of differences in opinion, that's what they'll do because agreeing to disagree is admitting weakness or unwillingness to admit the possibility of fault.

02-08-2005, 09:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I think the age issue works both ways. In my twenties I remember how hard it was to get a really good salary due to lack of experience. Once you hit your thirties though things get better and it seems like good paying jobs are plentiful. This lasts until about the time you hit your fifties and then you become almost surplus unless you have senority benefits like government employees. This seems to be especially true with companies that have a low growth rate after years of high growth and are desperate to cut expenses to show a good bottom line. I don't think age and experience always trumps youth. Inexperienced young people who approach things with an open mind are often preferable to older experienced folks who are too set in their ways. When I find myself starting to think about today's youth negatively I try to remind myself what my father's generation thought about us.

02-08-2005, 09:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Squishor Frontal Lobe Location: California	I think that most of the time when we find ourselves wedged into a narrow little box, it's because we put ourselves there. I am proud to say that I've managed to overcome the ageism that I was raised with. My mother's generation (in the 60s) tried to tell me that older people were hopelessly square and no longer relevant, but I saw some things for myself that made me think again. One thing that made a huge impression on me when I was much younger was once when I witnessed a flock of over-70 folks dancing to Michael Jackson at a country club luau. I hated Michael Jackson, and never would have considered even listening to his stuff, much less dancing. I realized that they were far more open-minded than me - what an eye opener! These people were Bing Crosby fans, yet they were willing to loosen up and have a good time regardless of how strange and new the music was for them. I had already been open to friendships with adults, but after that I realized I needed to open my attitude even further and let "elderly" people in as well. Currently, one of my very best friends is 64 or so, and I have other friends who are 21 or 22. Over the years I've had many good friendships with people significantly older than myself - now that I'm old enough to be thought of as such, I do my best to keep an open mind about younger people and extend the same openness to them that my older friends did to me. When I was younger, I hated the way people talked down to me and never seemed to take me seriously or believe I could possibly be thinking anything worthwhile. So now I take the time to listen and respect those younger than myself. I still can't deal with those stupid baggy pants though.

02-09-2005, 12:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
frogza Registered User Location: Right Here	I have always looked very young for my age, I'm 30 now and people consistently gues I'm 20-22. On many occasions I have been treated in a condiscending way because people assume I'm too young to have any real life experience. Yet I have been entirely responsable for supporting myself for half my life. (Yea I know that puts me at 15, that's another story) During that time I have learned a thing or two. But since I have a "baby face" it's generaly assumed that I have a baby's wisdom. I think that my experience has given me enough perspective on age and what it means that I don't really judge people by their age, but by how they percieve themselves.