phredgreen

Now I know not everyone has a good high school experience, and some teachers even feel stifled by administrations that are demanding and harried by the "no child left behind" policies that are turning children's educations into little more than ritual preparation for federally mandated tests...

so do you think she was out of line? do you applaud her for bravely standing up against what she recognises as a bad system? how do you feel, and do you, or do you wish you could've done something like that at your school?

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wonderwench

I think the punishment went too far. Unless the school has guidelines or rules for the content of a valedictorian's speech, then this is petty revenge on the part of the administration - and possibly illegal.

Bill O'Rights

Good for her, says I. For one thing, the school administrators are doing little more here than helping her to make her point. Petty, vendictive shit. Where do they get off withholding her diploma? She earned it. She should get it. Nothing more complicated than that. Those that are withholding it...should be directed to seek alternative career options.

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pig

On one hand, I definately think that she should have received her diploma...making the valedictorian speech isn't a requirement for graduation. However, I do think it's possible that she was out of line - It's tough to say without knowing exactly what she said and what the situation was actually like at the highschool.

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wonderwench

One could argue that she exhibited poor taste or callousness in her choice of subject matter - but that does not undo four years of superior academic performance.

analog

if you select and empower a person as valedictorian for your school, you should not expect that the smartest person at the school will keep their mouth shut over glarign injustices.

choskins

Every high school I know of has the rule that you are not entitled to your diploma UNTIL after the graduation ceremony. The reason is obvious. They don't want kids streaking naked across the stage or screaming profanities during the ceremony. This is the only police power they have. As such, I am sure they were within their rights to do so. However, it does seem harsh. Nevertheless, it was entirely short sighted on her part.

The girl made her point. She now needs to apologize, not for the content, but for the forum.

Admit it was inappropriate, get your diploma, go to college, became a politician.

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OFKU0

Good for her. Instead of acting the way the school did, they should have taken a proactive approach, congradulated her for her sincerity and honesty and promised that they would take her suggestions seriously and try to make the school a better place.

Something like errr,...school pride.

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bernadette

the denial of her diploma, i think, sort of underscores the inept administration of this high school, which appears to be exactly what the student spoke about.
whether the administration liked or didn't like what she said, unless she given specific topic guidelines & so long as she refrained from distasteful unsavory topics, it shouldn't matter, because there's this little thing called "freedom of speech."

she could have talked about almost anything under the sun, but instead she used her time in the spotlight to bring attention to the fact that this school needs much improvement. good on her.

it'd be nice to see a transcript of exactly what she did say.

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choskins

Good point. That is the way the compromise needs to work.

She needs to admit it was an inappropriate forum; they need to thank her and vow to correct the problems for future generations.

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fnaqzna

Good girl. ...and to think that some people still worry about our future.

matteo101

I think if she passed the year, she should get a diploma, no ifs and's or buts.

boatin

good for her. bottom line is she worked hard for four years, and picked an an entirely appropriate subject matter to speak on. I think it sounds like a perfect forum, and completely appropriate.

That dang Rosa Parks, she should have picked a more appropriate forum to make her stand.

I'm not suggesting a parallel between civil rights and the speech at the school. But I am suggesting that to address grievances sometimes you just have to do it. Perhaps a more appropriate parallel was the two raised black fisted gloves at the Mexico Olympics.

Many said that was an inappropriate forum. I say you have to follow your conscience. It sounds like she kept it clean, and spoke her mind. More power to any and all who do so.

Asuka{eve}

I am so cheering for that person. Highschool was hell!

sailor

Good for her. That took some balls, and it probably needed saying.

The question I have is whether the diploma is just the sheet of paper, or whether they are telling her she won't graduate. If its just the paper, fuck it, I havent even looked at mine since they gave it to me, but if they are telling her she wont be passed, thats another issue all together.

I dont really think the schoolsystem has the right to deny her her diploma because she spoke out against the school. Yet another example of how incredibly fucked up the public school system is. Their denying it to her just seems to emphasize the problems she was talking about.

I would like to see a text of the speech though.

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nothingx

That's complete bullshit.

A diploma isn't given to you by the administration, it is earned by meeting the requirements set forth by the board of education. If she met those requirements, they have no right, whatsoever, to deny her the diploma that she is entitied to.

When someone is sent to prison to serve a certain amount of time, they are allowed out when that sentence is up. It doesn't matter how much they hate there, or how vocal they are about their hatred for that place. A sentence is a sentence, and when it's over you are free to go.

Likewise, this girl has been mandated by federal law to attend so many years of school. She did her time, and now she is free to go. She can say whatever she wants, do whatever she wants, it doesn't matter, she is entitled to that diploma.

pig

I also wonder if the school didn't have to ok her speech before the ceremony. I know at our school you had to have your speech in about a week beforehand so the school could check it and approve. I don't think I can really say whether or not I feel it was appropriate without seeing / knowing about the real content of the speech. Did she point out problems with the school in a "professional" manner, or was it a big "Fuck You" to the administration. She might not feel that they do enough, and I can't speak for the teachers at that school, but I do know that a lot of the public teachers and administrators I know are over-worked and screwed by district and state legislation thumbs-up-their-asses, and it's not entirely their fault. I've also known a lot of really intelligent kids who can be real immature assholes and who have massive superiority complexes towards their teachers. It's tough to say what happened here, in my opinion.

As I said before, I think she should receive her diploma, but in order to know if I applaud her speech or look at as a sophmoric rant made in bad taste, I'd had to know more about it.

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choskins

But if you kick in a vending machine at school, you get expelled. Likewise, if you streak across the stage at graduation, you are expelled. You do not graduate until after the ceremony. The school administration apparently felt her speech was akin to streaking. As such, they denied her diploma.

I think it will all be resolved with everyone smelling like roses.

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choskins

Alright, I am not defending the school, but I googled "high school graduation ceremony misconduct". I found literally thousands of sites where the student handbook has rules of graduation.

Some even had statements that required the student to sign the following:

"I understand that if I fail to meet the above requirements or violate any school regulations, such as a senior prank or any other suspendable offense, I may forfeit my right to participate in graduation. I further understand that in the event of any misconduct on my part, I may:

1. Not be allowed to be in the graduation line;
2. Be required to leave graduation and the area;
3. Have my diploma withheld;
4. Be required to meet with the Principal/designee on May 25th to discuss said incident."

Again, I am simply stating that the school board may have and probably did act within its authority.

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timalkin

When she eventually gets her diploma, she needs to take a fat shit on it in the parking lot. That's about all it's worth, anyway.

Halx

Ok, choskins, I am now declaring that if anyone calls me 'Halx' I will ban them. It may be my true, apparent screen name, and the name that you all see, but if you dare to call me by it, I will ban you.

There, it's written and documented.

Now, it's completely in my right to do this if I so please. After all, it's my site. However, does this make me a decent person? HELL NO. If I acted on it, I would get a lot of hate. In fact, this school is gonna get overrun with response from around the country from people who read the article. 'Right' is never justification.

I hereby repeal the ban on calling me by 'Halx'

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KellyC

Spot on!

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roachboy

i have nothing but contempt for the school administration in this situation. beyond that, agreed entirely with kelly c and her agreement with bill o'rights.

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choskins

Touche! I guess it is the lawyer in me. I still believe that if a jury finds someone not guilty, they are not guilty.

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pig

Funny thing, choskins - I didn't interpret your comments to indicate that you thought the school was morally justified, only that they acted within their legal rights. I think a lot of morally deplorable things are legal. Things like drinking unsweetended iced tea. In any case, carry on.

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choskins

Thanks pigglet! You are right. I wasn't trying to say that they were morally justified. I was only saying that they were within their rights legally to do so. That is what I meant by the not guilty comment. For example, we all know OJ committed murder (allegedly); from a moral standpoint, I believe that. However, from a legal standpoint, he was found not guilty.

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BigGov

She told the truth, what's wrong with that?

Hell, my entire senior year I was much, much worse. It was because we had a new principal who was the exact opposite of the previous. The old principal was a nice, caring old man who gave the young adults respect and the benefit of the doubt. He was very much of the mold of "You want to leave campus? Well, if you want to graduate, you'll come back, so have fun while you're out. You want to use the library, well go use it then, I'm not going to stop you from learning. You want to walk the halls? As long as you don't disturb classes I could care less."

The new principal? Exact opposite. An overly-oppressive woman who made rules and regulations for everything. Much of the mold of "You want to leave school? Well do you have this, this and this done? How about this and that? Well what about this too? Oh, and do you have this done too? You want to use the library? Well sign out of where you are and sign in the library so we know you're there just to make sure that you were there. You want to walk the halls? Well, take this hall pass."

Overall, there were many general changes as a result. During my final year there was more crowding in an already far overcrowded high school because students had to stay in one of the two commons because teachers couldn't supervise both thoroughly enough. The librarians turned from somewhat annoying into book-nazi's. Oh, and most importantly there was an INCREASE of students walking the halls. Now I capitalized increase for two reasons, one because it's not really expected more students would be in the halls with the new rules, and because there was a signifigant increase in the number of students wandering. One of my teachers had the opinion that since students had a pass now they felt they had the right to be there, and no matter where they were, as long as they showed the pass they'd be fine and dandy. Before, there were hardly any students in the hall, and if for some reason there was one being disruptive the teacher would go out, yell for a second and tell them to get back to class or to stop disturbing them. After, the teacher could only say to hurry back to class which the student never really cared about. So the teachers were forced to close the doors. So what? Well, the school was overcrowded, as in almost every class was overcrowded with no windows. An open door to let in circulation is a plus.

So, what's the point? I pointed out all the bullshit and how it did nothing. Hell the first day of the new school year I was walking to my locker without a pass when a former teacher stopped me and ask for a pass. He wasn't going to take me down to the office and report me when I've been a good student and I'm just walking down the hall. Hell, on the way back I stopped and talked with him for a few minutes and said how pointless the new policies were, and he agreed with me on every point. Throughout the year I just tried to see how much further I could go. About 1/4th of the way into the school year I had a journalism class. In there I wrote an article about all the new policies. Of course I was nice and avoided suspension by not criticizing the new principal, meanwhile the entire first half of the article described precisely how to get around all the new policies. At the end of the year I finally decided to try most I've ever done. During the middle of class a friend said he needed a binder for this project we were doing. I told him he could easily go get one from Staples right then. But he said no, he was too scared. He then decided he'd challenge me to go do so. Hey, as long as he didn't rat on me I'd do it. I proceeded to walk right out of the school. Past 3 teachers, 1 security guard. If any of them would have looked they would have seen me walk right out the door. I go to Staples, find the prices of decent binders are far too high, come back, walk right back in, go into the library and right in front of three librarians, I mean DIRECTLY in front of three librarians I covered my tracks by making up a false sign-in time and a false sign-out time. If any of them had paid attention I would have been suspended.

Now, a smart person would shut up and never tell a soul about this. Well, not me, I go ahead to tell any teacher I know who will listen and proceed to get into zero trouble.

I broke every single new rule. I explained how I broke it, and I described it all to people who could have me suspended. If anyone asked me, I would have told them in detail how I did it and how they can do it just as easily, and if I were a speaker at my graduation I would have explained how worthless the new principal was, and how worthless the new policies were.

Hopefully any self-respecting college that hears this and accepts her will ignore the high school graduate requirement for this girl.

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Xell101

Hopefully the backlash will be immense and prompt some change. Aside from that, I think it's great she used her speech to denounce the cruddy school administraiton, and I also think it's funny that the school took a course of action to respond to this that is characteristic of a cruddy group of people with authority, thus proving her right and making it clear change is a good idea.

timalkin

I wish I could have been there to see the looks on everyone's faces. Priceless.

warrrreagl

There are more appropriate channels for discourse and discussion than the old in-your-face radical speech.

If, however, she felt that the situation was so bad that extreme measures were necessary, then she should expect an extreme reaction in response.

In other words, if receiving her diploma was her goal, then she should have kept her mouth shut. If making her voice heard loud and clear was her goal, then she shouldn't be concerned about a petty diploma.

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Tirian

Sounds like she acted with all the maturity of a typical high-schooler. Hopefully she will grow out of this and learn about this thing called real life.

Halx

Yes.. real life.. where you're supposed to shut your mouth and do as you're told. Never shake shit up because nothing good can ever come of it. Growing up means you must become a sterile, uninteresting, docile, unmotivated sack of flesh that does your superior's bidding at all times. Shame on her.

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SinisterMotives

The student definitely should have used more discretion, not because she was wrong in stating her views, but because she should have seen the school administration's childish response coming - i.e., after twelve years of public schooling, "I'm right because I'm the teacher" should have been thoroughly drummed into her head.

Cervantes

Noone should be punished for speaking their minds. Everyone has a right to say whatever they want, as long as it is not harrassment of any kind. What the girl did was to rise up against a bad system and speak her mind about it. She shouldn't be punished she should be rewarded for daring to say what so many obviously think but noone dared to say out loud.

SinisterMotives: She is 17, still an idealistic youth. Not the cynical realist she will become in a few years. I don't think you can expect her to understand how childish some adults can be.

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apeman

obviously the school has failed - they haven't managed to brainwash the pupils thoroughly enough, hence deserve a public slagging off.

heheh

YOU GO GIRL!

nb: sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut, but I still give you respect

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H12

Word. I'd like to read the speech before I jump to any conclusions about this, but I believe that many of the same points could be made for my high school...and the same punishment probably would have followed, which is a shame.

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Esoteric

That's bullshit, she earned that diploma and she should get it. Good for her on doing that speech. I just hope she gets her diploma.

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raeanna74

She could have handled it better probably. Especially if she had written letters to the school administration about problems and potential solutions WHILE she was still going to school (of course it could have caused her problems but then it wouldn't have been a public forum so they may not have reacted much). Then when there was trouble after speaking up at the graduation she could have brought out these letters explaining that she had done what she could before and was unheard. Then no one can blame her for getting herself a louder voice.

It would have been one thing if all she'd done was flame the school. From the sound of it though she was specific and exposed actual problems. In that case she had every right to speak up.

Yeah they might be legally free to withhold her diploma but they are not morally right. If they are aware of the problems and have done nothing to solve them then they are at fault. If there weren't glaring problems then there wouldn't be many complaints.

If I had attended a school with a lot of problems and administration too closed minded to face the problems I would be in full support of a student speaking up at my graduation.

It shows she cares what the school does in the future and what the future students have to face. Otherwise why speak up at your own graduation? You're done, you don't have to deal with it anymore. She's motivated to make a difference. The school should at least recognize that and respect it.

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Journeyman

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=valedictorian

You know, stirring up shit at graduation isn't smart, but this girl is no troublemaker. As the top student, her speaking poorly about the school reflects poorly on the school, not the girl. If there wasn't anything obscene about the speech (as the supreme court definitions go), then the school needs to eat a little crow, give out the diploma and address the issues which are now well exposed.

DelayedReaction

I'm not surprised her diploma was held; it was the only form of power the administration had left. That said, their reasons were childish and inane. An apology? Unless her words were offensive (and I doubt it), she should not be denied her diploma for taking advantage of a chance to communicate.

I hope she doesn't back down. Obviously she felt stongly enough to make the speech in the first place; now is the time to follow through.

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