TFP Upgrade Possibility
 

Hey all... I wanted to discuss this with you all before I made a decision.. so tell me what you think.

There is a new version of vBulletin out.. 3.0.0 - I wanted to get some ideas about what you all think of an upgrade.

To see an example of vb3.. http://www.mattschat.com

vb3 has a ton of new features and a slightly different look, but with my limited experience with it, new custom features may come a little slow. There is a good possibility that we may lose the journals all together because the code structure and database structure are almost completely different. In fact, I don't think there is much hope for them if we do upgrade - My free time is booked so I'd need to fuck around with the code for like a month.

If we do want the upgrade, we could do it one of 2 ways. One way would be to import the current database into the new forum. I'd need to take the site down for a day or two to do this, but we'd keep most of what we have all ready.

The other option would be to just start over, much like we did a year ago under forced circumstances. There is something to be said about starting over with a fresh face. Everyone re-registers. 0 posts. Donors would get the short end of this stick, as their custom status would vanish. I could have the site up in less than an hour.

Of course.. if you all feel comfortable with this version and this layout... we will stay put. There is something to be said about a safe, secure and problem-free setup.

So, I'll leave it up to you all. Change or no change.

I mod at a couple of sites that have made the move to VB3 and although I don't mind the new layout - I much prefer the older VB2 layout. Also there are several unresolved bugs at the moment.

I think eventually everyone will change over but I believe there is life in the old dog yet...

I'm voting for staying with 2.x. I love the look and feel of this board. Looking at Matt's Chat, I'm reminded of every other message board out there. This site has its own unique feel to it.

Hal, whatever you like, but it ain't broke, so why fix?

I like it here, so I wouldn't change a thing.

How about a list of these new features?

I would stay with ver2 for now. Like TopHat said before why upgrade if there is no need, and you might lose some of what you have?
The journals are well appreciated!

If you do switch, I'm undecided on the fresh-start issue. There's something to be said for both options. Ithink I'd prefer the fresh-start though. All old topics will be re-visited again soon anyway, and with due notice, all participating members will re-register fast. This will re-invigorate (?? fresh energy) the community.

As a compromise, you could implement the new version, and keep the old as an archive? (ie. just disable posting/registering for v2)

maybe you should state what these bugs are so that people can make an informed decision.

a bulleted list of the new features would also be helpful.

kind of like a pros and cons list.

yea, i like this board quite a bit like it is. i'd just as much prefer to stay with it than switch unless the other format has some huge incentives/advantages

That's a good idea Silvy.. I don't think we should voluntarily leave ourselves without any history.

As far as the new feature list goes, most are site management based. Some features include reputation ratings, profile pictures, archived threads for search engine indexing, more advanced posting forms, optional threaded view, more deceptive banning features, multiple attachments per post, advanced search results, paid subscription features.

The board is coded to withstand a higher usage rate, so basicly, we'd have room to grow. In the past, we've had to cut down on traffic to allow the server some room to breathe.

Hmmm...the new version sounds like what another message board I sometimes frequent has gone to. It's pretty good, some problems though, but nice features. But I think I would prefer to stay with this one here.

Presonally, I like what we're using now best. The new version, like others have said, just looks so generic. This board has a personality that's all its own.

However, if we do make the switch, I have no problems with a 'fresh start.' It seems like it would be the easiest and safest way to make the switch.

I think that i'd prefer to stay with this one for now, seems to be working really well! And besides, it's only since this version that i've really become 'active'
On a side note... thanx for the forum halx!

Guess I agree with the crowd....I enjoy the look here very much.
And also, many thanx for TFP halx.

Here are pros and cons..

Option 1: Stay the course
Pros: No issues, no problems.
Cons: Reaching terminal capacity as far as forums go.

Option 2: Upgrade and import database.
Pros: All the new features, slightly faster loading, search engine recognition, and subject to new upgrades.
Cons: 1 or 2 days of downtime to switch. Loss of some unique features for a while, including journals.

Option 3: Upgrade with fresh start.
Pros: See Option 2, 'brand new world' feeling, 1 hour of downtime.
Cons: Loss of post counts, special status, downsizing of forums, loss of journals.

to me it's the people that make this forum what it is, not the software it uses. However having said that, I really like things the way they are. On the other hand if you feel this change is important to the health and growth of the site then I guess you have your answer.

I appreciate you asking us how we feel Hal, but this is your playground. Feel free to upgrade as you wish...

That being said, I am comfortable with the way things are around here now. I'm not big on change...

Thanks for asking, and keep up the good work...

DITTO.

but do what feels right! I will re-register and donate again! Just give us fair warning if you decide to.

I like this board as it is. However I don't have to deal with the administrative side of it. So if upgrading the board will make things easier on you, then you should do it.

Also, it's always nice to keep the TFP evolving. A fresh start always seems to do that. Since I don't use the journals, I'd have to say go ahead and do it.

If we go new version, I say we go clean slate. I think we should archive certain forums, like: Literature, Photography, Artwork, and Portraits. Also, I think there would be some value in retaining select threads from Sexuality, How To, and maybe some others.

I think all of "Coming Together" should be archived.

We could put it all under one link, and call it the TFP Archive, or vault, or something, and make it accessible to read. I think this is especially valuable for user-submitted works, as in the Creativity forums. These pieces should not be lost.

I think it would be good to have a fresh start.

I think TFP is perfect as it is, but since you say it may be reaching terminal capacity, it sounds like you are really being forced into either option 2 or 3.

Between the two of them, I choose option 3. It may be quite selfish of me, as I am sure people have lots of time and energy invested in their journals, but that "new world" feeling is quite amazing.

I'll never forget how I felt when I first joined TFP... what a huuuuuuge place! I would not mind once again to feel like there is something I've yet to discover.

But thats just a silly idea - there are long-term consequences that should not be ignored (but I am doing so anyway - ha!).

Halx, I trust that you are a man of vision even at your relative young age,

I sense that you already have the answer for the better, and you would like to make sure that you've miss nothing major since this is a inevitable, and significant move, now I say you go with your heart and go to VB3,

sure there are bugs, but it will work out

Tell the truth, Hal, you've been waiting for this new version for over a year now

You know you wanna do it... ;)

oh yeah, don't have an opinion on which way to upgrade, however. Starting fresh has happened enough times to not be traumatic.

But being down for a few days!?

I'm for the upgrade and db import. I don't want to lose what we have, but I very much prefer the vb3 operation and interface.

I love the way things are now. I wouldn't change a thing.

like MSD i'm all for the upgrade with the db transfer.

our history is important, and so is the continued growth and development of the site.

(besides, i think the one or two days of downtime is a good refresher for everyone.)

I just generally dislike VB3, a couple of forums I post on switched and it looks horrible :/

If TFP does go to VB3, then I say start with a clean slate, but archive some of the forums (good idea that BTW).

pretty much seems like a torn issue, but i suppose whatever comes we will all make the best of it.
what are "more deceptive banning features"?, just curious.

all i ask is for a little notice so i can copy my journal to Word.

I agree with y'all.
For the most part, I like version 3.0.0.

I hope the QuickQuote feature and the quick posting boxes will be available sometime, too.

I frequent a few boards with vb3, and a site I co-admin switched to vb3 a few months ago. So far I am impressed with some of the few features, but I do believe there are some minor bugs. I am not familiar enough with vB to be able to identify them, or to be sure it is vB and not my browser or something like that.

I don't know if vB3's reached Gold yet, but I assume it has.

The only thing I don't care for in vB3 is the interface. It's very crowded and some things are hard to find. Also, all the themes I've seen have been kind of...big. As in, posts take up more screen space, and I really dislike the way the poster's name is in huge ass font size... The reputation system is pretty cool, though, it can be a powerful tool.

But that's nitpicking, as I recommend going for a custom-made style anyway.

Whatever you decide, you may want to set up a test board for the staff to play with, before switching over cold turkey.

As for your question, I kind of recommend starting with a clean board. You get rid of the zero post members and the clutter. Classic threads can be imported.

I personally like the feel of the current setup. if it comes down to an issue of no growth because of this I would say change. If we do chenge I would like to see the DB transfer as there are many times i go back and look at some older posts for information i did not relise i would need at the time.

No pain, no gain. But then, who needs pain? And the pain would mostly be yours Halx. Like fhqwhgads said, its your site, do whatever you wish.

I agree with the majority. If it's working, why break it? ;)

Halx, if we're close to capacity why not do what you did awhile back and cull out the non-posting members who are only here for porn?

From my standpoint, it all works fine as is, and I see no need to change. From your system administrator's standpoint, things may look entirely different. If that's true, do what's needed to maintain the board's health and growth potential.

I would prefer that you keep the old database. But since that's some days of extra work for you, and you work for nothing here, again the choice is really yours.

I am never against change, but this old girl sure is comfortable...

Ditto...if it ain't broke, don't fix it...:)

I really don't have an opinion. :)

I guess I'd advise whatever's easiest on you. You seem like a busy guy anyway and long hours moving databases around doesn't sound like much fun, eh?

That being said, if it's gotta go, I'd prefer the clean slate as well. And I guess while I'm agreeing with everyone and their mother, I agree that it would be a good idea to archive the good stuff.

Does it have the quickedit/quickquote and the reply box? I really like those.

Wait....I guess I do have an opinion.... :hmm:

Good Q, I've been waiting for this topic to come up.
(and altho it *is* your world and I support 100% whatever you do, I also appreciate you asking us..)

Now then, I vote for upgrade, fresh start, with 'important' stuff archived.

Upgrading i think is inevitable at some point anyways, so why not do it relatively soon, once you/we've got the decisions sorted out and you've got the time to devote to the initial process.

Regarding the 'feel' of the current forum, I would suggest (altho this may add to the 'pain in the ass' factor), is to incorporate/transfer as much of the current 'style' into the new one, so people still feel like it's 'comfortable, home'.

I think the new features avail in the new vB will in the long run, be an improvement, administratively and as a user. Features that people may want could be more likely in vB3. (Altho I recommend in general keeping out as much 'fluff' as possible. People want things to be relatively simple, yet usable in the ways they want to use them).

Anyways, them's my 2¢.

:)

i post at 7 or 8 boards (and i admin and run 2) right now and this is the only one still at version 2. I'm really use to the new features and rely on most of them now.

My favorite feature of VB3 is that i can hover on a threads title and read the first 100 couple of words about what the thread is about. It saves me that little bit of time and lets me know if i want to read the thread or not. Also, as an administrator and moderator at other forums, we use the user notes alot.

I've seen most of all the things i've seen here on TFP at the vB hack site, like the journals, the quick quotes and stuff.

I'm all for the upgrade. I miss seeing all the great features of vb3 here :)

Stupid question, but what does it look like?

Can someone post a screenshot of it, personally, i love the green/default look better than any other forum i've ever visited.

Personally, I'm ok with either option, but, i think i'd rather just have the boards down for an hour, instead of a few days. As two days without tfp = bad.

Your choice though Hal, the community will back you either way.

I tend to like the "aint broke, dont fix " mindset, as long as it does what it has to- saves the possibility of bugs- also, if you wait to upgrade they have more time to fix/ work out any potential bugs-

if you do switch, then I say save what you can- I hate the idea of starting over more than I have to-

come what may though, I will be here, and support the place as much as I can

I personally don't like Vbb 3.0 all that much. Just the look and feel of it is meh. The forum I use it on has alot of issues to, expecally with forum premisisons and user groups.

it's not about someting being broke.. it's about always changing and evolving..

My little opinion here is, that you can change the look of the board to whatever you will as admin. So you can still use the current pictures and style, if you modify it a bit to the new board.

So for most posters, it won't even make all that much difference.

If it makes life easier for mods, and has a few extra bells and whistles and doesn't require more bandwidth, then why not change it?

I would be for it, with a few threads backupped I suppose.

I really don't want to lose the journal option :(

Revising my opinion here. If it's an issue of room to grow, then by all means, onward to the next level.

If that is the choice, I am all for a clean slate. Classic Threads would be recreated, so there is no need to archive. Mostly, I would be glad to see the banned and voluntarily exiled names drop out of site. Maybe a taboo topic, and no judgement at all on the specifics of any of them, but it's jarring to run across them

Here's my take. I'm for what ever direction we need to go. If we need to upgrade, then so be it. If we can upgrade later, then that's fine too. I know eventually we'll have to go with the newer version, so what ever the decision, I support it 100%.

Don't worry!
I say do the change, move the content, but remove all threads that haven't been posted in in over a month.

I am in on whatever as far as upgrade is concerned, but I really don't want another fresh start. I like the way it is and can't really see the advantage in starting over with posts again.

Since FlamingPeach mentioned that the journals could be saved (I don't use 'em myself but I know a lot of people really like them, so I think it would be extremely important to keep them around) it sounds like the switchover could be nearly transparant to the userbase. So I'll change my vote and say, if that's the case, go for it! New toys are always fun as long as they don't make your friends stop playing with you ;)

I say whatever you do, please try and move the database over to the new. Although, if you do have to start a new db, please let everyone have access to the titty board as well. Although I am an active poster in all sections, I still need my TB. :)

I don't either. I've posted plenty for the past year, and since the last time we started over I had only lost about a week. I back up and back up this all the time now.

I this sounds the best to me. If we use this option, that includes a day or two of downtime? If so, I think we could all handle a day or two... as compared to the unscheduled cuple of weeks last time forced us to take.

I'd like to keep the board the way it is, until we/you are able to find a way to keep the journals. I feel the journals are an important part of this community, and I enjoy both reading and writing in them. Once this obstacle is hurdled over, I think upgrading with a fresh start would be a great idea!

I prefer "sharpening the axe" -it sounds better.
This is just something I play with, like a hobby, and frankly, I hope you don't change it. I know this is really picky and superficial, but the new version seems very cluttered, almost like FOX news or FOX sports with lots of graphics. I really liked the recent design tweaks to this version of TFP, and the simple green color scheme.
If you changed it, I probably wouldn't care as much or participate, cause I like it the way it is now, and don't know that I have the time or the energy at the moment to devote to it like I did when I started.

However, if I were you and it were my baby, I'd most likely change it and make it the best it could be.

Hmmm...I rather like it how it is...like dy156 said, the new one looks cluttered. It's not a huge deal to me, though; I'm sure I'd get used to the new version if that's how it goes...although I'd miss my The Cheat icon :p

About higher usage rates...is that a problem? I see new people posting all the time, so I'm wondering how long before an upgrade is inevitable...if it's not far off, then it WOULD make more sense to upgrade now.

I'm very happy with the board we have now. The thought of losing the journals is a big deal to me.

I think that if it is time to upgrade, do it.

I would try to make the board as similar as possible to this one, and I think the idea of archiving this one is a good one--there is a lot of good information on this site, and there is no need to kill it all.

like moonstrucksoul said, you can copy your journals into word and then copy them into your new journals.

I like the current look of TFP. If any changes were made, I would like to keep the same format as it stands. I do think you should delete all old threads. I liked that idea. Start fresh in that respect.

Same. Not sure if I like v3 or not, but I do know I would like to see the current database kept.

I like the current look of TFP. If any changes were made, I would like to keep the same format as it stands. I do think you should delete all old threads. I liked that idea. Start fresh in that respect.

So that we can make an informed opinion, can you give us some stats about new users?
Here's why:
I, along with a whole passel of people came here after the TB was mentioned on fark about a year ago. When the policy was changed to make it so that rookies could no longer view it, there were lots of people that were already members, or stuck around.

I don't think there is anywhere on the net pointing to the TB right now, and I'm wondering about where new people are coming from and in what numbers, because unless the majority of them are from referrals, without the draw of the TB, can this thing survive a "reboot" as easily as it has in the past? Just curious.

400 entries. Been there done that.

I would stay with Vb2.

Yeah, I've done that. Only then I lose all the comments, which in many cases are more valuable than the entries.

I like the look and feel of the current board. If that doesn't change too much, I'm all for the upgrade.

Also, my vote would be to move the current database over. What's the point in losing what we've already built? I'm not really that against starting from scratch, I just don't really see the point if it can be avoided.

I can't say I've ever used the journals, so I have no opinion in that matter.

oh, very true.

very astute observation... i've forgotten how some of the discussions below the post have just blossomed into more than the journal post itself

If we migrate to version 3 and lose everything, the veteran members won't be able to tell the newbies to search instead of posting. That would disrupt the entire class structure of the TFP, and soon it will go the way of the dinosaurs.

Seriously though, the obvious ideal option would be to upgrade, but have all of the threads remain in place. Since that's not possible, I think we should keep TFP the way it is.

Oh, and if everything is resetted, user name jacking is sure to ensue. Nobody wants that, right?

you have little faith in the populous

if it were my choice, i'd go with option two.

in the long run, 2 days down is nothing (even though i'd be itching till you brought us back up).

i don't mind missing the journals... i've not created one of my own and don't keep up with other's very much. i think i'm in the majority as far as this goes, but i'm sure they do mean a lot to those who participate in them.

well, from a member's point of view, i'm quite happy with the way things currently are...
...but if it'll make things easier for you & the rest who manage tfp, then i wouldn't complain if you upgraded nor if the board went offline for a few days or even a week.

...but personally, i would really really hate to see the old threads eliminated.
as it is now, we can perform a search & try to see if a topic has been previously posted.
we can make references to old threads.
there are many wonderful threads that continue to grow over time.

and one final personal note... i am a huge fan of the nonsense forum. we're a pretty tight bunch yknow.
i fear that if specific content gets eliminated, the nonsense forum might be one of the first targets.
that would sadden me to lose many of those threads.
they may seem frivolous & non-important to many, but to a good deal of us we love & value those threads.

i can, however accept losing some very old threads possibly... ones that haven't been usual for quite some time.

so, since you were kind enough to ask us all, that is my .02 cents.
and thanks again for tfp. i love it to pieces.

Halx, it is your ball to do with what you want. My advise as an outsider in the computer world would be to wait for the rest of the world to work out the bugs of any new software. As a physicianm I rarely prescribe a drug until it has been out for six months or a year. I let everyone else find out about all the things that are not discovered during development.

While I am tempted by the "fresh start" approach, I am also frustrated by that possibility. I am under a lot of time constraints that were not in effect a year ago. I know that I would not be able to build my post count for months. The only reason that is important to me is that I really like having an avatar so I can find my posts easily. Of course many of my posts tend to be thread killers so I can just assume that there is no response to my rantings. Come to think of that, it might be a big time saver in the long run.

I'm in the middle on this.

No opinon from me for once.

It's your baby so i say whatever is easiest on you. Post count doesn't mean anything to me. I don't mess with or look at the journal's so that part is a dead issue with me. A fresh start would mean cutting down on the membership totals, but also cutting some deadwood. Thanks for whatever way you decide.

Quick answer... I like option 2. I have the patience to put up with a couple days of down time. I do like the current look better, but assuming v3 is customizable then that's not really an issue.

As far as importing the old info, I have to admit I have selfish motives there. I'm not a frequent poster for various reasons, and in the year or so we've been on this version I have yet to even reach avatar status. But if it comes down to it, I'll just have to redonate and start working my way up again. :)

What it comes down to is the ringmaster owns this circus, and with a crack of the whip or two, all the rest of us will fall into line. ;) Halx, do what you need to do.

I like the start-over version -- it's so damn democratic, like an election. There is some temporary loss of status, but I think those who deserve it quickly regain it anyway!

I like the technical upgrade aspect of this choice as well.

I of the if it ain't broke don't fix it mindset.[
Unless VB3 contributes something specific, it sounds like a waste of time.

I say leave the change and evolution to the people who contribute to TFP. Let us do the evolving within the site and with eachother. New site structure, to me, seems unnecessary. If capacity issues are a problem, couldn't you drop the thousands of accounts that never post to make room for new ones?...more later, as this thread evolves.

I like the boards as they are, however I also like the idea of having new features....

What I'm most concerned about is the loss of some really decent threads. I personally wouldn't mind helping sift through the archives and pick out some choice threads for inclusion in the new format.

What also concerns me is the matter of the journals...There is a lot of content there, and while i probably have less than 20 entries and can easily copy them for my own purposes, there are so many people out there with tons of entries and comments that can't back them up so easily. Is there any way to leave the old journals up as an archive, then have everyone start over with the new format?

I don't like the idea of losing journals. Also, if this site does move over I don't know if I would want to archive everything or start over from scratch. Archiving everything would keep us from destroying a year's worth of thoughts and ideas, but it would also be nice to not see the banned members still around. Another brief, temporary concern I have with starting over is some of the postwhoring that was so prevalent for a while after TFP 4.0 started will inevitably occur as people try to regain status, although the mods do a good job of minimizing that.

vB2 is like living in a shack.
vB3 is like living in Bill Gate's house.


I vote for the upgrade and import.

I have no opinion on the journals either way, I am indifferent on the issue.
The one thing I am worried about is the post counts. It took me awhile as I do not just post random shit just to build and with school I do not have time to post more than once or twice a day so it would take quite a while to get back up.
If it ain't broken, don't fix it is my opinion on the issue.

Go for the upgrade, shut us down for a couple of days and keep the threads.

The content is whats important to me, not the software. However If you need to upgrade you should feel free to do so in whatever manner you feel is best. A clean start wouldn't bother me at all, especially if that means the least downtime. It would be nice to save what you could of the old TFP though.

I vote for either not upgrading , or upgrading and keeping the datebase, for the same reasons as others.

I'm suggesting you make the switch to v.3. It would be nice to keep the currently active threads, but not essential.

I'm not an avid reader of the journals but it would be shame to lose them, especially for those folk who've put a lot of time into theirs.

Destroy everything and start over.

This place is proof of what 25,000 monkeys with typewriters can do. It is also proof of what they can't do. Let the cycle begin again. That's where the fun is. The only thing worth saving around here is the interaction. It's time to jettison all the blah, blah, blah.

I doubt I will have a lot of support for this opinion.
-GH

Full support on this one. :thumbsup:

I support giant hamburger not only because we were share the same birthday, but also because i also like the idea of starting anew with a fresh, clean slate.

[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RAAxAxkVe!buVrv*02O10IXytx!!!J5k7k6F*x4zLpDhp*6Mo65MTBchsrdjgFZvbDM0RnURfS7YeTZMaXF1yDPqOy5mMeq4uPtgnBMWbb8/cleanslate.jpg?dc=4675467152268867004[/IMG]

Based on the responses so far, my vote is:

-1 on option #3,
+1 on option #2, &
+0 on option #1.

I think we can live without TFP for 2 days (or even 7 days if necessary) if need be, if the return on investment is:

1) Upgrade in vB to a more scalable and featureful version.
2) Keep old posts.

I'd like to note that we appear to have many excellent coders on TFP. Perhaps an option would be to call for people to help with the effort to restore the unique features once the site has been converted?

Hal my tec knowledge is worthless to you.:(
The tfp has grown nicely sort of like my wife of 21 years.
The spark is still there and the glove fits nicely.
I am comfortable and happy with this relationship.

just my 0.02 cents worth

In my opinion:
Start over, start clean, Make the upgrade and delete the old stuff.

Everything has to change sometime!

Features! W00t!

Halx, as stated before,
you KNOW you want to do it,
you KNOW you'll love it,
you'll KNOW it'll make your job more interesting and TFP more managable.

Just do it... keep the old forum as reference (or at least parts of it, I'm pretty sure the TB could afford to start afresh).
Keep it fresh and exciting.

Somehow I keep thinking about a quote from dune:

"And always, he [Paul] fought the temptation to choose a clear, safe course, warning: "That path leads ever down into stagnation."
- from "Arrakis Awakening" by the Princess Irulan

But that's me, and I maybe I'm wrong, maybe it would be a great tragedy....

Hey Halx your place you do with it what you want. Let us know so we don't get panicked when we can't get on if it happens and we do change. I am cool either way.

I like the idea of starting anew, but I still think that the board should be archived. There is a lot of good info here (Computers, Sexuality, How-To, etc) that I dont think should be lost.

I like the look and feel of what we have now, but it is your house, so my opinion really shouldn't count much. The only problem with restarting is the intial flood of all the old information getting posted again. Then again, it could bring some overlooked info back to the top so....keep us posted!

The current look and feel are comfortable, but if this version limits TFP progress, the change is going to happen sooner or later.

If we wipe it clean, I can hear it already..."we beat that subject to DEATH on the old vB2 board!" An archive seems sensible, if practical.

Either way, let's do it!

I'd like to do an upgrade but retain all the old posts. I like having a large archive of previous posts to search through.

Either that or keep it the same way....I just don't want to lose all the old posts.

Hey Hal,

I'd rather not start over. I've found that I have some pet boards (photography, electronics...good idea analog) that I'm fond and proud of. Yes, maybe archiving these and bringing them back would be a great idea.

As for everyone going back to posts=0 mode, it doesn't seem to have any benefit other than a shortened down time. For me, waiting an extra day or two is worth the wait. I also think this helps in more subtle ways: when new members ask questions and get a reply from an "avatar'd" user, it reinforces to them the commitment and comfort level of our home.

On the other hand, as a programmer in a previous life, I can only say that new features can often make your life much easier.

So here's my proposition: VB3 board, retain status for members and donors, down time is a mere two to three days, plus archives.

Good luck. And thanks so much for asking us. This place is really cool.