Eenie, meenie, minie, moe.... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

water_boy1999 · 01-23-2004, 08:52 AM

Sorry if this has been posted, ran a search and didn't see it....

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...430EST0629.DTL

Trial set in 'racist rhyme' lawsuit accusing Southwest Airlines of discrimination

Monday, February 10, 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(02-10) 17:33 PST KANSAS CITY, Kan. (AP) --

A judge has set a trial date in a discrimination lawsuit filed against Southwest Airlines by two black passengers who were upset when a flight attendant recited a version of a rhyme with a racist history.

Grace Fuller, 48, and her sister Louise Sawyer, 46, were returning from Las Vegas two years ago when flight attendant Jennifer Cundiff, trying to get passengers to sit down, said over the intercom, "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go."

The sisters say the rhyme was directed at them and was a reference to its racist version that dates to before the civil rights era: "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; catch a n----- by his toe."

"It was like I was too dumb to find a seat," Fuller said. Sawyer said fellow passengers snickered at the rhyme, which made her feel alienated.

The sisters are seeking unspecified compensatory and punitive damages.

U.S. District Judge Kathryn Vratil last week dismissed the sisters' claims of physical and emotional distress but set trial for March 4.

"The court agrees with plaintiffs that because of its history, the phrase `eenie, meenie, minie, moe' could reasonably be viewed as objectively racist and offensive," Vratil wrote. The second line of a modern version of the rhyme usually goes, "Catch a tiger by the toe."

Airline attorney John Cowden said there was no intent to discriminate against any passenger.

Cundiff, who is white and was 22 at the time of the incident, said she had never heard the offensive version of the rhyme. She said she learned the Southwest version from co-workers and used it as a funny way of getting passengers -- who are not assigned seats on Southwest -- to sit down.

Plaintiffs' attorney Scott Wissel said the sisters also want Southwest to stop using the rhyme and provide employee training to prevent such incidents.

These women should be banned from flying forever! I was listening to the radio this morning and heard that Southwest wanted to settle out of court and offered quite a large sum.....the two sisters rejected the offer and wanted to take them to court to win more. Well, the judge and jury said it was yet another frivolous lawsuit and didn't award them ANYTHING!!!! I'll try to find the link....

Bobaphat · 01-23-2004, 08:58 AM

absofarking rediculous. Its lawsuits like this that give legitimate ones bad names. I wish people would learn to censor themselves sometimes.

ratbastid · 01-23-2004, 09:18 AM

I've heard that rhyme used on Southwest flights before. Maybe it's just my White Middle Class Anglo Saxon showing, but I didn't think anything racial about it at all.

I was raised on the "tiger by the toe" version of that poem, incidentally.

water_boy1999 · 01-23-2004, 09:27 AM

I never even knew the original version....and my family comes from the DEEP South.

feelgood · 01-23-2004, 09:43 AM

Heard both version but I heard the 'catch a tiger by the toe' more often. These couple are just scum, money sucking slackers...

Prince · 01-23-2004, 10:19 AM

Ridiculous. These claims should get laughed at and thrown out of court in record time... Waste of the taxpayers' money and the court's time. I'm sure there are legitimate claims to handle, this one's just bullshit. I don't understand why they even allow these bullshit cases in court.

I think the threshold for suing someone in America is way too low. It seems as though there are no prerequisites that are to be met; you can sue anyone for anything at all.

Phaenx · 01-23-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by feelgood
Heard both version but I heard the 'catch a tiger by the toe' more often. These couple are just scum, money sucking slackers...

Indeed. Wish I were a judge, I'd invite them to stfu.

ARTelevision · 01-23-2004, 10:27 AM

In my opinion, the right to bring suit is a citizen's right worth preserving intact. Caps on awards can be helpful if you're interested in controls. But the basic right is best left inviolate.

mb99usa · 01-23-2004, 10:28 AM

Learn something new everyday.. I was unaware there was an offensive version. Still do not see how that applies to this as nothing racial was expressed.

yournamehere · 01-23-2004, 10:36 AM

I heard it first in its original version - but the word had no meaning to me as a child. When I DID learn what the word meant later on, it just seemed stupid because it didn't make any sense. Of course - many chiildren's rhymes ARE nonsense.

Simple use of yet another frivolous lawsuit as a ticket to Easy Street, IMO. I hope they have to pay both sides' court costs.

<i>"It was like I was too dumb to find a seat," Fuller said</i>
Pretty obvious, if you were the only two still standing when they were trying to leave the gate. The other passengers were snickering at your stupidity, not your skin color.

Sho Nuff · 01-23-2004, 10:40 AM

Jesus Christ people. Let it go already.

johnnymysto · 01-23-2004, 11:31 AM

At least (according to the above story) they weren't awarding anything. FINALLY, a judge and jury recognize a frivolous suit when they see one!

tinfoil · 01-23-2004, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
In my opinion, the right to bring suit is a citizen's right worth preserving intact. Caps on awards can be helpful if you're interested in controls. But the basic right is best left inviolate.

Hrm, I understand your pov here, but is it worth preserving if the system is being bent and twisted into such frivolous suits?

jujueye · 01-23-2004, 12:34 PM

Death will part me from the idiots of the world,
who lie in wait, for meaning uncurled.

Cynthetiq · 01-23-2004, 12:57 PM

see and that's what makes groups so CORPORATE... Southwest tries to be innovative and fun, and what happens, someone cries foul for some illegitimate or silly reason.

j8ear · 01-23-2004, 01:08 PM

oooops, didn't read everything before adding comment.

My contribution already provided.

-bear

water_boy1999 · 01-23-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ARTelevision
In my opinion, the right to bring suit is a citizen's right worth preserving intact. Caps on awards can be helpful if you're interested in controls. But the basic right is best left inviolate.

The general concept of being able to sue is fine. I agree.

However, when it is taxpayer money that is continually spent on these types of lawsuits, I feel that the people suing should have some sort of penalty for using and abusing the system.

Yalaynia · 01-23-2004, 01:45 PM

Its really stupid that they would even consider that being rasist. I mean come on I remember when I was like 5 and 6 years old using it when we were trying to deside who was it for tag and hide and seek. I saw this on the news when it happened and they were interviewing both white and black people and none ever thought of it being rasist, and some laughed because they never heard it sung in either form.
I think its quite funny if you ask me just shows that people can have a sense of humor in the work place.
As far as being centered out black or white if there were 2 people or 5 people standing she would have said the same thing.
I have nothing against black people at all never have and never will. I just dont understand when ever some think that they are getting treated differently they scream rasist. Besides I m sure they wouldnt have a problem if it was a black flight attendant that said it.

Reese · 01-23-2004, 07:23 PM

I think it was Gakface that mentioned this a few days ago, and probably countless other people before him.
We need common sense rulings in court. If a guy falls through your roof while robbing you and sues for damages, it should be thrown out of court in 2 seconds.

ARTelevision · 01-23-2004, 08:02 PM

tinfoil,
yes, I do think it is.
There are very few opportunities available to citizens for leveraging individual power in opposition to inequity. I believe we accept a lot of nonsense in the name of free speech - and it is generally understood that fact doesn't diminish its significance as a legally protected right. I see the right to bring suit as equally crucial and necessary to defend.

bermuDa · 01-23-2004, 10:30 PM

I've never heard the racsist version before... does that mean i should've been sued if i said it to a black person?

AfterBurn · 01-24-2004, 12:31 AM

That's probably the most rediculus reason to sue. The women that filed charges should be charged for being that uptight. I must give them props though for picking up on that and making really easy cash.

Fire · 01-24-2004, 07:21 AM

I hadn't heard the "bad" version - and if the attendant is 22 chances are she hasn't either...... Gee, maybe we could let the negative conotations die, and move foreward as a society- no wait, instead, lets CASH IN.....

aintyoboyfriend · 01-24-2004, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fire
I hadn't heard the "bad" version - and if the attendant is 22 chances are she hasn't either...... Gee, maybe we could let the negative conotations die, and move foreward as a society- no wait, instead, lets CASH IN.....

This is exactly the problem with the world today.

Half of the population has probably never heard that silly rhyme used in any "negative" connotation before. Rather than letting it die, it has to be brought up again, so someone can attempt to cash in because they assume everyone is out to get them

Latch · 01-25-2004, 04:55 PM

Pretty much echoing the above...

I grew up learning "catch a tiger by his toe".. it wasn't until people made big deals of the "old" version that I knew of it. If people would just let it die instead of publicising it like this, I don't think it'd be long before the bad version would just be recorded in some history book somewhere.

DEI37 · 01-25-2004, 07:04 PM

I'd never heard the "offensive" one before, either. Personally, if they think it was aimed at them...guess who's just turned racist? No body else thought of that. Only the black ladies. They just turned any possible sympathy away. I think that's just fucked up. If I'd have been judge in that court, I think I'd have laughed my ass of. Of course, then, since I'm white, I probably would have lost my position for being racist. Idiots.

Hedgehog · 01-26-2004, 03:27 PM

Point #1. The rhyme is "catch a tiger". Just because someone teased this woman as a child with different words doesn't make it racist.

Point #2. Since when are you entitled to sue for being offended? Offending someone isn't a crime, and it doesn't entitle someone to damages. What damages?

Point #3. There is no point #3.

"This court finds for the defendants. Case is dismissed with prejudice. Furthermore, the plaintiffs' attorneys are found in contempt and sentenced to 3 years in prison. Furthermore, the plaintiff will pay the defendant's legal fees, and we find for the defendant in the countersuit that this court filed for them yesterday, in the amount of one million dollars. Take your offended asses out of my courtroom and learn some tolerance for your fellow human beings. Next case!"

Mr.Deflok · 01-26-2004, 05:12 PM

I feel sorry for the Tigers, being put into a rhyme for no reason, hell, how would you like it if the Tigers had a rhyme involving humans in a disrespectful manner?
"RAWR! HUMAN! DIE! RAWR!
MEAT! RAWR! DIE! RAWR!"

moonstrucksoul · 01-26-2004, 08:13 PM

people suck. period

onodrim · 01-26-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
I feel sorry for the Tigers, being put into a rhyme for no reason, hell, how would you like it if the Tigers had a rhyme involving humans in a disrespectful manner?
"RAWR! HUMAN! DIE! RAWR!
MEAT! RAWR! DIE! RAWR!"

Very funny.

I also had never heard the offensive version before, and if the other passengers were 'laughing' I'm sure it's because they were thinking of the innocent version of the rhyme, and thought it was a funny way to get them to their seats. Some people are just far too sensitive. :\

wry1 · 01-28-2004, 03:00 PM

IMHO: There are just some people out there who are always going to find the "race" issue in anything said or viewed.

It's sad, as until people begin to look past these issues, they will continue to have power over society.....

01-23-2004, 08:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	Eenie, meenie, minie, moe.... Sorry if this has been posted, ran a search and didn't see it.... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...430EST0629.DTL Trial set in 'racist rhyme' lawsuit accusing Southwest Airlines of discrimination Monday, February 10, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (02-10) 17:33 PST KANSAS CITY, Kan. (AP) -- A judge has set a trial date in a discrimination lawsuit filed against Southwest Airlines by two black passengers who were upset when a flight attendant recited a version of a rhyme with a racist history. Grace Fuller, 48, and her sister Louise Sawyer, 46, were returning from Las Vegas two years ago when flight attendant Jennifer Cundiff, trying to get passengers to sit down, said over the intercom, "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go." The sisters say the rhyme was directed at them and was a reference to its racist version that dates to before the civil rights era: "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; catch a n----- by his toe." "It was like I was too dumb to find a seat," Fuller said. Sawyer said fellow passengers snickered at the rhyme, which made her feel alienated. The sisters are seeking unspecified compensatory and punitive damages. U.S. District Judge Kathryn Vratil last week dismissed the sisters' claims of physical and emotional distress but set trial for March 4. "The court agrees with plaintiffs that because of its history, the phrase `eenie, meenie, minie, moe' could reasonably be viewed as objectively racist and offensive," Vratil wrote. The second line of a modern version of the rhyme usually goes, "Catch a tiger by the toe." Airline attorney John Cowden said there was no intent to discriminate against any passenger. Cundiff, who is white and was 22 at the time of the incident, said she had never heard the offensive version of the rhyme. She said she learned the Southwest version from co-workers and used it as a funny way of getting passengers -- who are not assigned seats on Southwest -- to sit down. Plaintiffs' attorney Scott Wissel said the sisters also want Southwest to stop using the rhyme and provide employee training to prevent such incidents. These women should be banned from flying forever! I was listening to the radio this morning and heard that Southwest wanted to settle out of court and offered quite a large sum.....the two sisters rejected the offer and wanted to take them to court to win more. Well, the judge and jury said it was yet another frivolous lawsuit and didn't award them ANYTHING!!!! I'll try to find the link....

01-23-2004, 08:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Bobaphat whoopity doo Location: Seattle	absofarking rediculous. Its lawsuits like this that give legitimate ones bad names. I wish people would learn to censor themselves sometimes. __________________ --size matters not-- yoda

01-23-2004, 09:27 AM	#4 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	I never even knew the original version....and my family comes from the DEEP South. __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson

01-23-2004, 09:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Heard both version but I heard the 'catch a tiger by the toe' more often. These couple are just scum, money sucking slackers... __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

01-23-2004, 10:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
Prince /nɑndəsˈkrɪpt/ Location: LV-426	Ridiculous. These claims should get laughed at and thrown out of court in record time... Waste of the taxpayers' money and the court's time. I'm sure there are legitimate claims to handle, this one's just bullshit. I don't understand why they even allow these bullshit cases in court. I think the threshold for suing someone in America is way too low. It seems as though there are no prerequisites that are to be met; you can sue anyone for anything at all. __________________ Who is John Galt?

01-23-2004, 09:18 AM	#3 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	I've heard that rhyme used on Southwest flights before. Maybe it's just my White Middle Class Anglo Saxon showing, but I didn't think anything racial about it at all. I was raised on the "tiger by the toe" version of that poem, incidentally.

01-23-2004, 10:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	In my opinion, the right to bring suit is a citizen's right worth preserving intact. Caps on awards can be helpful if you're interested in controls. But the basic right is best left inviolate. __________________ create evolution

01-23-2004, 10:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
mb99usa Keep on rolling. It only hurts for a little while. Location: wherever I am	Learn something new everyday.. I was unaware there was an offensive version. Still do not see how that applies to this as nothing racial was expressed. __________________ So, what's your point? It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

01-23-2004, 10:36 AM	#10 (permalink)
yournamehere Invisible Location: tentative, at best	I heard it first in its original version - but the word had no meaning to me as a child. When I DID learn what the word meant later on, it just seemed stupid because it didn't make any sense. Of course - many chiildren's rhymes ARE nonsense. Simple use of yet another frivolous lawsuit as a ticket to Easy Street, IMO. I hope they have to pay both sides' court costs. <i>"It was like I was too dumb to find a seat," Fuller said</i> Pretty obvious, if you were the only two still standing when they were trying to leave the gate. The other passengers were snickering at your stupidity, not your skin color. __________________ If you want to avoid 95% of internet spelling errors: "If your ridiculous pants are too loose, you're definitely going to lose them. Tell your two loser friends over there that they're going to lose theirs, too." It won't hurt your fashion sense, either.

01-23-2004, 10:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
Sho Nuff Addict Location: Harlem	Jesus Christ people. Let it go already. __________________ I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

01-23-2004, 11:31 AM	#12 (permalink)
johnnymysto Overreactor Location: South Ca'lina	At least (according to the above story) they weren't awarding anything. FINALLY, a judge and jury recognize a frivolous suit when they see one! __________________ "I'm disinclined to acquiesce to your request." - Capt. Barbossa

01-23-2004, 12:34 PM	#14 (permalink)
jujueye alpaca lunch for the trip Location: in my computer	Death will part me from the idiots of the world, who lie in wait, for meaning uncurled.

01-23-2004, 12:57 PM	#15 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	see and that's what makes groups so CORPORATE... Southwest tries to be innovative and fun, and what happens, someone cries foul for some illegitimate or silly reason. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

01-23-2004, 01:08 PM	#16 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	oooops, didn't read everything before adding comment. My contribution already provided. -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

01-23-2004, 01:45 PM	#18 (permalink)
Yalaynia Insane Location: here but I wish I lived there	Its really stupid that they would even consider that being rasist. I mean come on I remember when I was like 5 and 6 years old using it when we were trying to deside who was it for tag and hide and seek. I saw this on the news when it happened and they were interviewing both white and black people and none ever thought of it being rasist, and some laughed because they never heard it sung in either form. I think its quite funny if you ask me just shows that people can have a sense of humor in the work place. As far as being centered out black or white if there were 2 people or 5 people standing she would have said the same thing. I have nothing against black people at all never have and never will. I just dont understand when ever some think that they are getting treated differently they scream rasist. Besides I m sure they wouldnt have a problem if it was a black flight attendant that said it. __________________ I couldnt think of anything to put here , but I guess anything would do

01-23-2004, 07:23 PM	#19 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	I think it was Gakface that mentioned this a few days ago, and probably countless other people before him. We need common sense rulings in court. If a guy falls through your roof while robbing you and sues for damages, it should be thrown out of court in 2 seconds. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

01-23-2004, 08:02 PM	#20 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	tinfoil, yes, I do think it is. There are very few opportunities available to citizens for leveraging individual power in opposition to inequity. I believe we accept a lot of nonsense in the name of free speech - and it is generally understood that fact doesn't diminish its significance as a legally protected right. I see the right to bring suit as equally crucial and necessary to defend. __________________ create evolution

01-23-2004, 10:30 PM	#21 (permalink)
bermuDa don't ignore this--> Location: CA	I've never heard the racsist version before... does that mean i should've been sued if i said it to a black person? __________________ I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

01-24-2004, 12:31 AM	#22 (permalink)
AfterBurn Psycho	That's probably the most rediculus reason to sue. The women that filed charges should be charged for being that uptight. I must give them props though for picking up on that and making really easy cash. __________________ smoking weed everyday keeps the doctor away

01-24-2004, 07:21 AM	#23 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	I hadn't heard the "bad" version - and if the attendant is 22 chances are she hasn't either...... Gee, maybe we could let the negative conotations die, and move foreward as a society- no wait, instead, lets CASH IN..... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

01-25-2004, 04:55 PM	#25 (permalink)
Latch In Your Dreams Location: City of Lights	Pretty much echoing the above... I grew up learning "catch a tiger by his toe".. it wasn't until people made big deals of the "old" version that I knew of it. If people would just let it die instead of publicising it like this, I don't think it'd be long before the bad version would just be recorded in some history book somewhere.

01-25-2004, 07:04 PM	#26 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I'd never heard the "offensive" one before, either. Personally, if they think it was aimed at them...guess who's just turned racist? No body else thought of that. Only the black ladies. They just turned any possible sympathy away. I think that's just fucked up. If I'd have been judge in that court, I think I'd have laughed my ass of. Of course, then, since I'm white, I probably would have lost my position for being racist. Idiots. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

01-26-2004, 03:27 PM	#27 (permalink)
Hedgehog Crazy Location: Charlotte, NC	Point #1. The rhyme is "catch a tiger". Just because someone teased this woman as a child with different words doesn't make it racist. Point #2. Since when are you entitled to sue for being offended? Offending someone isn't a crime, and it doesn't entitle someone to damages. What damages? Point #3. There is no point #3. "This court finds for the defendants. Case is dismissed with prejudice. Furthermore, the plaintiffs' attorneys are found in contempt and sentenced to 3 years in prison. Furthermore, the plaintiff will pay the defendant's legal fees, and we find for the defendant in the countersuit that this court filed for them yesterday, in the amount of one million dollars. Take your offended asses out of my courtroom and learn some tolerance for your fellow human beings. Next case!" __________________ Wait a minute! Where am I, and why am I in this handbasket?

01-26-2004, 05:12 PM	#28 (permalink)
Mr.Deflok Blood + Fire Location: New Zealand	I feel sorry for the Tigers, being put into a rhyme for no reason, hell, how would you like it if the Tigers had a rhyme involving humans in a disrespectful manner? "RAWR! HUMAN! DIE! RAWR! MEAT! RAWR! DIE! RAWR!"

01-26-2004, 08:13 PM	#29 (permalink)
moonstrucksoul hovering in the distance Location: the land of milk and honey	people suck. period __________________ no signature required

01-28-2004, 03:00 PM	#31 (permalink)
wry1 Loser Location: Far too far from my Angel....	IMHO: There are just some people out there who are always going to find the "race" issue in anything said or viewed. It's sad, as until people begin to look past these issues, they will continue to have power over society.....