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DOJ and medical MJ users...
A Justice Department memo, sent Monday to federal prosecutors in California and 13 other states whose laws allow medical use of marijuana, provides guidelines to implement the policy Attorney General Eric Holder announced in March: that federal authorities should refrain from arresting or prosecuting people who are complying with their state's laws.
Story here Welcome news in my opinion. Personally I'd like them to just legalize it completely. How do you feel about this? |
You, my friend, are probably now on a Hell's Angels or other organised crime hit list. Who do you think is pushing so hard AGAINST legalisation (and providing LOTS of $$$ to those politicians against it)?
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... Lemme preface my comments by stating that I believe that medical marijuana, while a legit concept, is simply a gimmie-gimmie portal for a lot of people who want to use the drug no differently than tobacco and alcohol. They all claim "it helps people" but really they just wanna get fucked up. And really, that's cool... but don't lie about it. You're not really fooling anybody with your Bob Marley t-shirt and that bag of Funyuns, okay? Your lungs, my liver. ... Law 101: I'm not a genius (or a lawyer) but state law can only go beyond federal law when it is "more protective." Federal law trumps state law everywhere else. The states don't get to decide whatever they wanna do, they have to subscribe to federal law. It prevents things like, oh, segregation of schools, abortion from being a capital offense, and freedom-lovin' jerkfaces in Montana owning three dozen sterile M60E3s for "home defense." Why is there this push for more wiggle room in current enforcement policy now? Is this part of the whole "Obamacare" bit? Heh. Its not like MM has been at the forefront of any major political debate recently. And there was plenty of wiggle room before aside from the string of Dubya era DEA raids. I don't like it strictly because it represents another erosion of the system based on a (I won't say contemporary) hot button issue. A fuckin' plant, none the less. ... My point: If you want change, do it through the legislative branch... no executive branch "practice over policy" and no "judicial legislation." Social reform should be in writing, not in amorphous recommendations. Change the laws first, guys. It's simpler that way. Ugh. |
In the states in question it was changed by leg. Leg initiated by the voter in most (maybe all) cases. The Feds have just been laying a heavy hand on people in those states regardless of the voters wishes. They convicted some poor lady with brain cancer in California for using MJ to ease her pain. Democracy at work.
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Yep, beer companies, Big Pharma and the drug cartels want no part of you being legally able to grow your own. Fuck them. |
Drugs also bring in a crap-load of money to law enforcement and buys them good ole boys some nice toys. Of course they are against decriminalizing or outright legalization.
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Taxing drugs would do the same. This is all about Morality and Standards, not the reality of Reefer Madness.
... I still think that the federal legislature should dictate the rules. They're slow, inefficient, behind the times, corrupt... but they're what we've got. To suggest that we need change now-now-now goes against the purpose of our government: painfully slow and deliberate, not swayed by trends. ... The "bad guys" will still make plenty of money on coke, meth, guns and women. Decriminalizing marijuana will only be a speedbump for them. |
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As for stating medical MJ is just a way around the law for people to get high that's a pretty broad brush stroke. Sure that happens, but many people with cancer and other medical conditions use MJ for pain, muscle relaxation and help eating and or hold down food. |
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Fun fact: Medical marijuana is a recognized treatment for my illness. It's possible that I could get it if I wanted to, and if I could find a doctor willing to go down that road with me.
Of course law enforcement doesn't want marijuana legalized. If it was legal, who would pay for their attack helicopters and fancy assault weapons and so on? |
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Please. Let's be realistic here. Recreational use is mondo far beyond medicinal use. Just be honest. Stats are cute, conditions are fine... but the reality of the situation is that it's about happy funtime. For me, that's the biggest obstacle that potheads face. It's about presentation of their case. They're trying to legitimize their activity with all the wrong bullet points and they're not fooling anybody. Quote:
Decriminalization would be positive for all parties involved, despite the initial acclimation pains. I'm a Johnny Law type and I'm for it. It would really take a huge load off LE and really step on the dick of all the importers, dealers, and other "entrepreneur" scumbags. |
I had a friend in Cali who I'm sure was faking her lupus condition just so she could score 90 lorcets and an oz. of herb every month. Things didn't add up in regards to her flares and what not. And since lupus is difficult to diagnose, I'm 90% it was all crap. But it worked out for her I guess.
Regarding making it legal, I just don't know. |
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A lot, but you can also count on funding/staffing cuts. Same thing would happen if you stopped funding drunk driving patrols. There's also lost rev. in seized property. All those sheriff auctions are going to shrink by large %'s. LE's gonna take a funding hit if MJ is legalized but IMO there's some things we shouldn't be funding. I knew of an elderly couple in Washington state who lost their home to the county because their adult son was growing pot on the property. The DA publicly explained he sure wished there was something he could do but the law is clear and his hands were tied... so they seized the house and sold it. In that county the sheriff and DA's office split the proceeds from such sales with a very small % going to the state. Yeah, no way he could have done a plea bargain... simply out of his control. *cough* bullshit *cough, cough* |
Yeah, I think the seizure of homes and other assets (cars) by LE is heavily abused. They seize a Corvette and put some bullshit slogan on the side and parade it around town. That kind of unprofessional my-gang-is-better-than-your-gang mentality only serves to create resentment in the community.
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It isn't any more dangerous than anything else, right? It's just like cigarettes and booze, right? Help me confirm my suspicions. |
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I really don't like the idea of my kids having easier access to it. Oh wait, I don't have kids. But if I did I'm sure it would be a legitimate concern. Smoking the shit all day doesn't 'expand the mind' like some think. It makes you stupid. More stupid people on the roads and in the workplace = bad.
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I'm confused, though: What do you mean it doesn't "expand your mind?" Everybody says such great things about it. You mean it's like some kind of dangerous poison that has effects more detrimental to a healthy lifestyle than the booze or cigarettes we're killing ourselves with legally? |
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Insto-presto list here ---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 PM ---------- Quote:
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Of course they're already smoking it. I started early too. But that doesn't make it ok imo. Speaking from a personal standpoint, it makes me more stupid and much less alert of my surroundings. I can't stand smoking around others as it doesn't make me more social. I shut up and just play pong in my head. By no means do I come to new realizations of space and / or architecture. It's just extra-curricular. I'm worthless while high. Throw me a brownie and some milk and sit me in front of a computer or tv.
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Yes, as long as there are legal drugs that possess a quality that can be abused, there will be people who abuse them.
When my wife was taking narcotics for her chronic pain due to a botched cervical surgery, I used to take her to the pain doctor every month (there were no call-in prescriptions. Ever.). She was not only one of the few regular patients who was actually disabled; but she was also the only patient (and I spoke to many) who wasn't also getting narcotics from one or two other doctors, which was strictly prohibited. So there's abuse - but at least these people aren't out committing crimes to buy heroin. But go ahead and legalize pot - the money we spend fighting its use and the cost to our prison system is ridiculous. Maybe it would free up some resources to catch some violent criminals. |
Well going by that criteria, its no different than when I drink. Drinking makes me stupid and less aware of my surroundings, and it makes me puke...something pot never did.
My choice was always pot over drinking, and it would be today if it were legal, specially since I cant drink anymore MJ doesnt affect everyone the same way that drinking doesnt, When I drink Im much more apt to sit around and people watch then when I smoked pot, being high was fun for me, it made me more animated, but then of course I know people just the opposite. To me one is not any better or worse than the other, if one is legal so should the other. |
Does it make you any more uncomfortable knowing your daughter would have easier access to it Shani? Or does it not really matter? I'm thinking if I had kids, I wouldn't be happy about it. But I guess I don't know for sure.
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But I know people who like to smoke then go work out or engage in hobbies such as building, painting, fishing. |
It doesnt bother me any more or less than knowing she has easy access to alcohol. There is all kinds of alcohol in my house, which she has tried at one point or another. Why would I be more uncomfortable with pot if it were legal than alcohol?
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And I'm down with that. Recreational use ttly. But there are plenty of those out there who would and could smoke it like cigarettes. A couple on this forum even lol. That would not be a good idea I don't fink. But I honestly don't know. Just my thawts.
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But why are the two different in terms of one being worse than the other? They both inhibit you, and the both can make you want waffle house at 3 am lol
Shoot, I never went thru withdrawal not smoking herb, cant stay that about steady drinking of alcohol |
Probably because my parents viewed one as worse than the other. And I just feel that's how things roll. I've done virtually every drug under the spectrum (except needles,) but I don't necessarily want my kid do follow in my footsteps.
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Well I certainly dont want my child being the coke head at age 19 that I was, but then neither did my parents, I have to be smart enough to educate my child. My parents thought the way to do it was to rant about the evils, not about the consequences, which is what I do with Amanda.
What she chooses to so with that information regarding pot, alcohol, coke, meth, scripts etc is up to her, but its up to me to make sure she is more informed than I was (remember I was a pre DARE kid, MADD didnt even show up until I was a senior in high school). Id much rather she light up a joint every now an then than become a raging teen drinking. Drinking is way more harmful than smoking pot, in many ways. |
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You know I think the answer to that question is they'd like to go get the big fish. The macho nature in which they live feeds the need for the thrill of the big "kill." ---------- Post added at 03:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:22 PM ---------- Quote:
Watching them has caused me to live mostly alcohol free during the week. |
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3%? I don't know. I don't even know how you'd come up with an accurate %. Personally I think the number would be much closer to 50%, but that number, like yours, comes right out of my butt. I think it's closer to 50%, maybe higher, because it's so readily available and the risk and consequences for getting caught is pretty slight for personal use. Why jump through a bunch of hoops to get a card if you can smoke relatively carefree without? |
Wait, translate that for me...
Did you just suggest that 50% of pot users have an actual medical condition? That's what I was trying to get it. |
The OP was about the feds initiative in prosecuting medical mj growers in states that have legalized marijuana. I think is is long overdue. In fact, I think it should not be a casual, memo it should be outlined fair and square for everyone. Laws need to be clear, and this one needs to be crystal. I followed a case a few years ago for a while about a legalized mj grower in CA being found guilty based on the information the the judge was allowed to give the jurors. This was when whatshisname was doggin it. When the jury was polled coming out of the courthouse they were all pretty appalled to learn that the man had been legalized by the state. Apparently, the jury was cloistered from media. I dont know the end outcome, but I suspect the man appealed or is appealing it. Nonetheless, his life financially must be ruined due to atty fees, and certainly his life has changed dramatically.
Like Snowy, I smoke dope regularly and I like it and I sort of resent needing to run around hiding it. On the other hand, unlike Snow, I dont know that it should be legalized because it would be so available and so many people would use it and then we would get no work done at all. On the third hand, sits the idea of how many folks with mental health issues are self-medicating, and what if they didnt have this? It could be worse, I could have no mj and then there would be no medicating of this girl and no work done. Trouble, I say, either way. I suppose it could be classified similarly to alcohol and sold with regulation, but it takes some of the glamor out of it. I like the idea of the law turning the other cheek in these matters unless there are horrible offenses or the users are not adults, or responsible. In those cases, I believe the person should be investigated for those crimes, not the crime of being stoned. Im stoned right now hence the long post; sue me. besitos |
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Ok, who had 41 in the how many posts until this gets thread jacked to a guns right discussion? You won!
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Oh, that's just timalkin. He love guns, but is scared to death of the prospect of the government not protecting him from potheads.
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No, no...wait. I see a segue....
Maybe restrictions on medical MJ should be loosened up across the country. That way, there would be far less need for "restricted types" of guns. You know, a kind of program of medial MJ for the paranoid, stressed out, etc. |
Well, here's another segue - at least we know all the illegal marijuana distributors own guns. It goes with the job.
Legalizing marijuana won't affect gun laws; but it would certainly affect gun use. |
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I don't think I'd like to have to lie to a doctor, or make up some bullshit condition. I don't need a drug to help me with a critical health or psychological condition, I use MJ for recreational reasons. If it's legalized, it'd have to be as a potentially safer alternative to alcohol, the most popular legal mind-altering substance. Maybe just like drinking, smoking it in public would have to be illegal? That might curb underage use, I'm not sure. |
I'd think the act of legalizing it alone would lower underage usage.
Back door dealer doesn't care if you're 15 or 50. Bartender/convenience store owner/whoever is licensed to sell is legally obliged to check ID. The idea that legalizing marijuana will cause underage usage to increase presupposes that illegal marijuana isn't readily available to minors. I believe that's a flawed assumption. And I've never met an armed pot dealer, although that might be related to living in Canada, where Guns Are Bad. |
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Okay - perhaps I'm guilty of hyperbole, but track most pot back to its source, and I guarantee you that guns and drugs go hand in hand. Back in my younger days, I knew a lot of pot dealers - and they were all armed. For every hippie growing a stand in Oregon; there's a thousand armed gangbangers moving the stuff north through Mexico and spreading it around. Now - if you go back to my really younger days - nobody was armed. Pot was a lifestyle then; not a business. |
I know someone who would be considered a prime candidate for medical MJ. This is one who has suffered years of pain that cannot be adequately described, and it is a constant battle (24/7) just to manage it to a level that is bearable. This is one who hasn't had a full night's sleep, not because they don't need it or don't have the capacity to sleep, but because the pain won't let them. This is one who cannot find comfort for more than a few minutes in any one position, whether lying down, sitting, or standing, and has spent many late nights leaning and occasionally falling down, having fallen asleep. This is one who's had countless single-dose hits of morphine that could literally kill a healthy horse.
They've had a morphine pump installed and then removed. They've missed far too many social events involving friends and family because their mood or the pain would be too disruptive. They've been unemployable for more than a decade, not because of an employer's lack of faith in their capacity to do even a basic office job, but because of their own. I could go on, but what's the point? I think you get it. If medical MJ can alleviate even a fraction of the suffering that people like this go through...even if it is just a tiny bit....if you've seen what I've seen in people like this---being helpless to do anything---you too just might support the idea. When all else has failed, the social stigma of certain alternatives become ridiculously trivial. |
Physician assisted suicide might be a better course of action at that point.
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You think rather then help alleviate the pain they should off themselves?
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Somebody help me: Are we alive to just consume O2 or to actually interact with our environment in a meaningful fashion? It's funny that people value their lives so much that they'll continue to torture themselves mercilessly out of simple fear of the end. If I can't sleep at night and my hours are a constant battle just to be in bearable agony 24/7... you can expect me to clock out. /threadjack ... Something tells me that pot isn't going to help that person any more than opiates, booze, or a bangin' stripper in their birthday cake. |
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Well I've been there. Years of pain. Pain to the extent that just sitting would cause tears at times. Sleep near impossible. One day I'm up walking around doing my thing the next I'm laying on the ground with a large beam on my leg and foot. Years of surgeries, nerve blocks and fucking pills. Pills, fucking pills and more fucking pills. At one point I was taking some crap to off set the side effects of some other crap. Booze? To drink enough to subdue the pain you'd just end up throwing up. Then you'd be in pain and hung over. I remember asking my doctor if we could just cut the leg off. According to several specialists since the pain is nerve based removing the limb wouldn't stop the pain. I tried pot, didn't help me. But I know people who swear it helps, who am I to disagree? They seem more mobile and social when using. Just because that wasn't the right thing for me doesn't mean it's not the right thing for someone else. As for banging strippers... you know when you're in so much pain that walking and sleeping isn't really an option I can assure you sex isn't high on your Christmas wish list. And I don't see it a quality of life issue. I see it as an existence of hope issue. Hope that someday you'll beat it, that someday you'll be able to walk your dogs on the beach at sunset and enjoy yourself again. |
I'm a firm believer that hope is not a policy.
... I suppose we should start a different thread if this instant discussion is to continue so as to not disrupt the topical pothead discourse. |
I'm a firm believer that suicide is for quitters. Hope may not be any official policy but it certainly was my personal policy for about 5yrs. Certainly glad I didn't decide to eat my service side arm.
I don't see how discussing the effects of pain and whether or not medical MJ is a useful tool derails this thread. |
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