Is plastic surgery just wrong?

[shesus]

There was a nibble on the discussion topics of breast implants. Actually, ng did a wonderful job of incorporating all the topics into one and I loved that. I'm working on something about that too. However, Lucifer caught my attention, his is easier.

Breast implants are wrong.

What if someone had breast cancer and lost one or both of their breasts. Is it wrong to want to have one or both of them replaced or is that still considered vanity. Or, what if you are small and want a modest augmentation to a B or C? Is that still vain?

Sure, they're fake, but so is coloring one's hair or wearing heels to make one look taller or whitening one's teeth or any of the number of things people do to look attractive or appealing.

On the lines of plastic surgery where is the line drawn? Is liposuction and tummy tucks for those people who are working to get in shape and need that extra help just wrong? Is getting a face-lift to try to recapture youth just wrong?

Where do you draw the line of being 'just wrong'?

I think that if people have the means to modify themselves through plastic surgery, they should be able too. Plus, it provides entertainment to see people walking around like Joan Rivers. Ouch.

[Glory's Sun]

For me, I like natural breasts, but I can't say that plastic surgery is wrong. There are many benefits of it.. especially the ones you've already mentioned. I think the only time I'd consider it wrong is when people do it not to feel good about themselves or people who get it for medical reasons; but when they get so addicted to it that they don't even know why they are getting the procedure done. I saw this guy on tv, he was a hairstylist and he gets butt implants, calf implant, lip implants, face lift etc etc etc.. only because he thinks that's the perfect canvas of skin. That's too much in my book. It is no longer about feeling good about yourself at that point, but trying to be what someone else wants you to be and that's fucked up.

[mixedmedia]

I don't think it's wrong, per se, but I think it can be done for the wrong reasons.

I work for a national chain that provides cosmetic surgery services (and other vanity services) to (mostly) men. And while I understand that the procedures makes these men feel better about themselves, personally I find them to be somewhat vain and silly. That's just my opinion, though, the necessity of these services varies with the importance an individual attaches to physical appearance.

[SecretMethod70]

I watch too much Nip/Tuck to think plastic surgery is "just wrong."

It certainly isn't always an improvement, but I have nothing inherently against it, especially when it's reconstructive.

[ngdawg]

For years, my sister kept insisting she was going to have breast implants. She wore a tshirt that said "Itty Bitty Titty Club" and would tease me about standing in line twice when breast were handed out, cheating her out of any.
We all thought she was just being too insecure.
She got a sizeable disability settlement from Lowe's and announced a portion of it was going for the implants and again, we as a family balked. Then she showed me why...Oh. My. God. Her breasts, if you could call them that, were more like someone pinched two parcels of skin and stuck oversized nipples on them. One pointed out, the other down.
She got her 36C's, which look pretty good and now I can tease her, saying yea, we're the same size now, but I didn't shell out 5 grand....
Not to be outdone, my other sister spent 8 grand on a full face lift when she was 47. It didn't do squat, specially around her eyes and her scars were there for a year.
I am planning on a midface lift. I wanted to do it last year, but too many bills. I will do it though. I would love what's called a mini-tummy tuck, where they don't bind and mesh the muscles, just lipo and remove sagging skin. Being a smoker, though, I can't have it done-the healing would be disasterous.

There is obviously such a thing as too much plastic surgery, ala Michael Jackson or Joan Rivers or the worst of the worst, Jocelyn Wildestein(I think that's her name).

A woman in England calls herself the human Barbie doll and she actually looks damned good for now after something like 42 procedures. But in her case and the above, I think a psychological screening should be mandatory-say, after your third time in.

Recapturing your youth takes more than plastic surgery, but most don't realize that. I have always had a weak jawline ( my chin just about disappears when I gain weight) and I just feel having a lift would be an improvement, not a change. It's hard on the mind too when looking in the mirror and seeing someone who's so much older than you feel staring back at you, so why not get your appearance to match your inner age? I'd draw the line at baby doll shirts and skinny jeans, though.

[genuinegirly]

My brother had plastic surgery at age 12 when a child threw a rock at his face.
Children that are born with cleft pallets are able to eat solid food thanks to the efforts of plastic surgeons.
Women who lose their breasts due to cancer are able to feel whole again.

I can't view plastic surgery as wrong.

If people seek plastic/reconstructive surgery for vanity's sake, that's their issue.
I won't judge. Not everyone is born with a body they are happy with. If you want to change the cards you've been delt, and you can afford it, then who am I to stop you?

It means the surgeons have consistent work and are well-practiced.
I really can't complain.

[Taja]

Originally Posted by shesus

... the means to modify themselves ...

Exactly.

I wear make-up, color my hair, have piercings and tattoos.

Is there really a difference between those body modifications and surgical enhancements? The end results are the same, (normally) a person does it because it makes them feel better or more comfortable about who they are or brings them a form of enjoyment.

[JumpinJesus]

I don't think it's wrong at all. For some people, like genuinegirly mentioned, it's corrective in nature. Even if it isn't corrective, it's not wrong. I do think that sometimes, it doesn't turn out well for some (I'm looking at you, Tara Reid). However, if someone has the money to get it done, more power to them.

[MSD]

The act itself is neither inherently right nor wrong. It's all about the motives. Too often I see it done out of low self esteem or body image issues that would be better addressed by counseling.

Aside from reconstruction, I can count on one hand the number of women I've seen who looked better after breast implants, whether in porn, real life, or browsing through thousands of pictures in surgeons' portfolios when I've had this discussion in the past. On top of that, they just feel weird. On the other hand, there are people who have worked hard to get into shape and can't do anything about that extra bit of skin or that stubborn area of fat that exercise just won't take care of. There are plenty of people who get botox or a facelift to reverse aging and know when to stop.

[mrklixx]

Personally, breast implants are a deal-breaker for me about 99% of the time. It makes me kind of physically ill when I think about the procedure of any kind of voluntary self-mutilation. A long time ago, when I actually looked at the E-zone here, my signature was something like "The only plastic jugs I like have twist off lids".

[LoganSnake]

Look at Ashlee Simpson. She looks a shitton better after some plastic surgery. I don't see it being any different than a permanent version of make up women use to make themselves look prettier day to day.

[sputnic7]

Fine by me

[little_tippler]

I don't think there's anything wrong with plastic surgery. It has its purpose. Reconstructive or otherwise. I agree there should be a good reason to do it.

For myself, the only plastic surgeries I wouldn't have done are the ones that include placing artificial objects into your body for cosmetic reasons (implants that need substitution or can cause problems at a later date). Other than that, I'd be game, provided I had the extra cash.

[shesus]

Ok, plastic surgery for pets? Testicle implants for neutered dogs? *That* is just wrong.

[mrklixx]

Now if they start adding extra breasts, then I might change my stance.

[Taja]

Originally Posted by shesus

Ok, plastic surgery for pets? Testicle implants for neutered dogs? *That* is just wrong.

How very sad.... I can actually believe that some people would do that!

[little_tippler]

plastic surgery for pets is ok....for medical reasons, no? Not for aesthetic reasons, that's people with too much money and time!

[mixedmedia]

Other than the obvious fact that it's cruel to subject animals to unnecessary surgical procedures, just put that aside, I don't see a difference in principle between a person having surgery to make themselves look better and a person having surgery performed upon their pet to make their pet look better.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Other than the obvious fact that it's cruel to subject animals to unnecessary surgical procedures, just put that aside, I don't see a difference in principle between a person having surgery to make themselves look better and a person having surgery performed upon their pet to make their pet look better.

I guess the difference would be that the animal doesn't have a choice in it.

[mixedmedia]

Originally Posted by spectre

I guess the difference would be that the animal doesn't have a choice in it.

That's the disclaimer I made at the beginning. I'm just saying that I don't see a difference in the principle of improving appearance with surgery between the two. One is not any more ridiculous than the other, in my opinion.

And, of course, I am talking about purely cosmetic procedures on people (or animals, lol) without obvious injuries or birth defects.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

That's the disclaimer I made at the beginning. I'm just saying that I don't see a difference in the principle of improving appearance with surgery between the two. One is not any more ridiculous than the other, in my opinion.

And, of course, I am talking about purely cosmetic procedures on people (or animals, lol) without obvious injuries or birth defects.

But even with the disclaimer, there is a huge difference. Again, if someone has cosmetic surgery, they make the choice to have surgery on themselves. In the case of a pet, the pet has no say. It's forced by the owner.

[mixedmedia]

But, that's not my point. I agree that the fact that the pet cannot consent makes a difference. Just that I don't see a difference between the two desires for improved appearance.

I don't think the desire to have fuller lips or bigger breasts is a less ridiculous concept than the desire for your neutered dog to have fake balls. I'm speaking only of the motivation, not the means of achieving it.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

Just that I don't see a difference between the two desires for improved appearance.

I have yet to hear dog claim it wanted new testicles, but I've heard a dog owner claim they wanted their dog to have new testicles. I have heard a woman claim she wanted larger breasts, but I've never heard her dog claim it wanted its owner to have larger breasts.

Maybe you have, but I haven't.

[mixedmedia]

Originally Posted by me fifteen minutes ago

I don't think the desire to have fuller lips or bigger breasts is a less ridiculous concept than the desire for your neutered dog to have fake balls. I'm speaking only of the motivation, not the means of achieving it.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by me 2 minutes ago

I have yet to hear dog claim it wanted new testicles, but I've heard a dog owner claim they wanted their dog to have new testicles. I have heard a woman claim she wanted larger breasts, but I've never heard her dog claim it wanted its owner to have larger breasts.

Maybe you have, but I haven't.

[mixedmedia]

I'm not sure why you are being so deliberately argumentative with me, but I have a pretty good idea. Bravo, spec.

I've no intention of getting roped into an argument that I didn't make.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

I'm not sure why you are being so deliberately argumentative with me, but I have a pretty good idea. Bravo, spec.

I've no intention of getting roped into an argument that I didn't make.

I'm not being deliberately argumentative, the post that you made was completely different than what I was asking. You gave a non-answer as a response, so I repeated what I said as well. If you're unwilling to engage in discussion, that's fine, but there is no grand conspiracy, you made a statement that I had a differing opinion on. All you did was repeat a vague statement that didn't address what I had said. If it's that important to you to have the final word in a discussion that consists of, "I disagree," then feel free. It just feels a little silly to me.

[mixedmedia]

You are wanting to discuss something that I made clear from the beginning was not the issue. If you want to argue that choosing to have cosmetic surgery and having cosmetic surgery performed on your dog are not the same thing, then go right ahead and I will agree with you.

Maybe if I state it this way, I don't find the desire to improve one's own appearance with surgery to be any less irrational than the desire to improve the appearance of one's pet with surgery. They're both a little crazy to me. That is my opinion and nothing more.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

You are wanting to discuss something that I made clear from the beginning was not the issue. If you want to argue that choosing to have cosmetic surgery and having cosmetic surgery performed on your dog are not the same thing, then go right ahead and I will agree with you.

Maybe if I state it this way, I don't find the desire to improve one's own appearance with surgery to be any less irrational than the desire to improve the appearance of one's pet with surgery. They're both a little crazy to me. That is my opinion and nothing more.

Thanks. That's all I was looking for.

[Willravel]

I couldn't possibly care less. If someone wants to have plastic surgery, they can go right ahead and I'm not interested at all in judging them. When I was younger I thought about having my heart surgery scar removed, but I decided that it's a part of who I am; it represents a chapter in my life. Also, it's really badass.

[JumpinJesus]

Originally Posted by Willravel

I couldn't possibly care less. If someone wants to have plastic surgery, they can go right ahead and I'm not interested at all in judging them. When I was younger I thought about having my heart surgery scar removed, but I decided that it's a part of who I am; it represents a chapter in my life. Also, it's really badass.

What's more badass? The heart surgery scar or the gunshot wound scar? I'm sure the heart surgery scar is larger, but wouldn't the gunshot wound scar be a more badass story?

I've always wondered how plastic surgery removes scars. Do they just remove the skin and tighten it up? Laser surgery? And wouldn't that surgery leave a scar? It's all so complicated.

[Willravel]

I think the heart surgery story is more badass. How many people can say, "I was born without an aorta"? Anyway, the scars on my calf are basically gone.

[spectre]

Originally Posted by Willravel

I think the heart surgery story is more badass. How many people can say, "I was born without an aorta"? Anyway, the scars on my calf are basically gone.

Wait, didn't you say before that you have Coarctation of the Aorta, a condition where the aorta has a blockage that prevents blood from properly flowing from the heart to the lower body? I'm really confused here, how can you have a constriction of an artery that you weren't born with?

I have a bit of a nearly unbelievable medical history myself and enjoy hearing these types of stories.

[mrklixx]

Originally Posted by Willravel

Anyway, the scars on my calf are basically gone.

So no plastic surgery will be necessary on the tiny bovine critter?

[Strange Famous]

I dont think its wrong, but it shouldnt take priority of medical care which targets sickness or injury.

But if someone is burned badly, who am I to say that they shouldnt be entitled to NHS plastic surgery? I spent a night in a hospital cos I was drunk and had an accident - thats self inflicted but the NHS paid for that. Someone who is injured through no fault of their own should be entitled to plastic surgery if their appearance dramatically effects them. I also think things like breast reduction should be funded by NHS where there is a real case for it (ie - a woman is suffering because of the size of them)

But I do think something like a breast enlargment, which is to boost someone's self esteem, further their career, or just because they want bigger tits - that should be strictly private.

There is a grey area though. And thats tough... its easy to say that if someone is badly burned they shouldnt have to pay to have surgery, and if someone wants bigger tits they probably should - but say a woman might have a birthmark or a crooked nose or something and that it could really effect their self esteem and mental health and if they cant afford it private I can see there is an argument for the NHS to cover it... even though its cosmetic only.... so I guess its always a grey area to decide what is really an issue that dramatically influances someone's live, and what is maybe a more frivulous issue.

[Willravel]

Originally Posted by spectre

Wait, didn't you say before that you have Coarctation of the Aorta, a condition where the aorta has a blockage that prevents blood from properly flowing from the heart to the lower body?

Yes, a coarctation is a blockage, but not in the same way a clot is. It's a "pinching" shut of the artery. Mine was a really, really, really bad pinching, though, to the point where the aorta that was just starting to descend stopped and then started again about a half an inch or so later. There were small veins connecting each end that are credited with keeping me alive (and that I still have, which augment the ability of the dacron tube they put in).

Here is a big image of a normal coarctation:
http://radiographics.rsnajnls.org/co...7ma04g02a.jpeg
Mine looked like that, only the pinching was more severe so there was actual separation.

Originally Posted by spectre

I'm really confused here, how can you have a constriction of an artery that you weren't born with?

I was born with it. It's a deformation of the circulatory system, I'm pretty sure one can only be born with it. I had the surgery at 5 years old, a few months after my pediatrician detected a murmur during a normal checkup. I think it was in late October of 1988, because I remember missing Halloween.

I've also had endocarditis, but that didn't leave any scars.

[spectre]

Wow, will. That's amazing. You're very lucky to have made it through all of that.

[Shaindra]

I'd love to be able to afford to address a few smaller things. For the most part, I like the way I look. But faced with the option of improving, I'd probably take it.

That said, it's a matter of degree. I don't expect plastic surgery would change my life, who I am. I'd expect it would improve the appearance of a few things that bug me...but probably things that most people wouldn't even notice.

[The_Jazz]

I could have had plastic surgery to cover up a scar on my face that I got when I was 6 months old ( glass ginger ale bottle basically exploded when I knocked it over). I still have the scar, though (as those of you who have met me IRL can atest), and it doesn't bother me any more. But when I was in middle school, I felt like it was a gigantic neon sign reading "UGLY" with an arrow pointing to me. At the time, I would have covered up that scar, no questions asked. I would have still smiled lopsided, but I could have lived with it.

But that's not what most plastic surgery is about. Often it's fixing things that are problems like my scar or (sorry if I'm outing you here) ShaniFaye's breast reduction. All too often, though, it's about vanity. Hair plugs or bigger breasts or whatnot.

The thing is, if I fixed that scar on my face, faded as it is now, I'd still be the same old asshole you all know and tolerate.

[SecretMethod70]

That's true, but I recently read an article about a social experiment that showed balding men getting 1/5 the hits on dating websites as men with a full head of hair. There can be a utility value to vanity