Where is a pint of beer only 14 ounces????

[Cynthetiq]

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Source: Wall Street Journal
posted with the TFP thread generator

A Pint-Size Problem

Beer lovers nurse a grudge as some bars switch to smaller glasses
By NANCY KEATES
June 7, 2008; Page W3

Four-dollar-a-gallon gasoline may be a cause for outrage. But it pales next to the righteous fury provoked by five-dollar-a-pint beer.

Beer prices at bars and restaurants have risen over the past few months, as prices of hops and barley have skyrocketed and retail business has slowed alongside the economy.

Some restaurants have replaced 16-ounce pint glasses with 14 ouncers -- a type of glassware one bartender called a "falsie."



And customers are complaining that bartenders are increasingly putting less than 16 ounces of beer in a pint glass, filling up the extra space with foam.

Two of the world's biggest glassware makers, Libbey and Cardinal International, say orders of smaller beer glasses have risen over the past year. Restaurateurs "want more of a perceived value," says Mike Schuster, Libbey's marketing manager for glassware in the U.S. Glasses with a thicker bottom or a thicker shaft help create the perception. "You can increase the thickness of the bottom part but still retain the overall profile," he says.

Dedicated beer drinkers are fighting back, with extra vigilance about exactly how much beer they get for their buck. They are protesting "cheater pints" and "profit pours" by outing alleged offenders on Web discussion boards and plugging bars that maintain 16-ounce pints, in hopes peer pressure will prevail. And they are spreading the word about how to spot the smaller glass (the bottom is thicker).

Jason Alstrom, who founded the magazine BeerAdvocate last year, calls it the "Less for More" phenomenon. "It's happening everywhere," he says. He is urging readers and users of his Web site, www.beeradvocate.com1, to "raise a fist and refuse to pay" when served a skimpy pint.

Reporter Nancy Keates discusses the shrinking pint phenomenon3.Evidence of short-pouring is hard to nail down, but there are signs the practice is common. Romano's Macaroni Grill, a national chain, uses the thick-bottomed 14 ouncers in at least some of its locations; a Romano's bartender in Portland, Ore., volunteered the nickname "falsies." (A corporate spokesman for Romano's declined to comment.)

A bartender at a Florida location of the GameWorks chain said it serves beer in the thick-bottomed 14-ounce glasses, adding, "We are trained to say it's a pint." Pat Hart, the GameWorks chain's vice president of operations, says the policy is to serve 16-ounce pints. At that location, Mr. Hart says, "they probably just ordered the wrong glasses."

Jeff Alworth, a Portland, Ore., beer blogger, university researcher and a founder of the Honest Pint Project, has been testing suspected short-pouring bars, in some cases measuring his beer-glass capacity by the men's room sink. His group collected more than 400 names in two weeks for an online petition urging state regulators to enforce a 16-ounce rule. And at one point, he was posting the names of bars that didn't measure up on his Web site. But in response to complaints, he now has taken to listing the names of establishments serving full pints in bigger glasses. "I'm not a firebrand," says Mr. Alworth. "I am devoted to Oregon beer, and it seemed like using glasses where you don't get a 16-ounce pour was not so cool."

Some restaurants make no apology for reducing their beer-glass size. The Damon's Grill restaurant chain switched to 14 ouncers from 16-ounce glasses two years ago and didn't lower prices. "Someone who comes in and wants a beer doesn't want a huge glass," says Tanny Feerer, vice president for purchasing at Damon's International. "Fourteen ounces is enough." Since then, the chain has held draft beer prices steady.

The Hooters chain serves draft beer in 14-ounce glasses at franchised locations in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and Tennessee, and 16-ounce glasses in other states. "We can get 20 more beers out of a keg that way," says Archie Gleason, director of marketing for the franchisee, RMD Corp.

Observant wine drinkers may also notice a change in glass size, says Lee Spielman, a regional sales manager at Cardinal. After several years of pouring red wine into oversize "bowls," restaurants and bars now are starting to get complaints from customers about the size of the pour. Many places are switching to much smaller "universal" glasses, designed to hold either red or white wine, he says.

The shape of the glass apparently can distort bar patrons' perception of how much beer they have been served. The British Medical Journal published a 2005 study by Brian Wansink, a Cornell University professor, and Koert van Ittersum, an assistant professor of marketing at Georgia Institute of Technology, concluding that restaurants and bars might increase profitability and reduce waste by switching to taller, narrower glasses and cups -- without sacrificing customer satisfaction. If people think they are getting more, they will be willing to pay more but won't necessarily drink more, the independent study concluded.

Mr. Alworth, the activist, demonstrated his methods on a recent Sunday afternoon at Henry's Tavern in Portland. He ordered a pint of a lighter-style lager -- which he chose because it doesn't foam a lot -- and poured it into a plastic measuring cup. He let it settle, then looked closely: The liquid reached a little above the 13-ounce mark. Next he measured the contents of a smaller glass of dark beer: It came out even less.

With his Boston Red Sox cap pulled down low on his forehead, he tucked the empty light-beer glass under his corduroy jacket and went to the men's room, where he filled the glass to the brim with water -- 16 ounces, to be precise. The same procedure with the empty dark-beer glass revealed it held 14 ounces.

Managers of several bars disputed Mr. Alworth's suggestion that they are skimping on their pint pours. Craig McKellar, a manager at Henry's Tavern, says first of all, the bar uses only 16-ounce glasses, though from time to time a smaller glass could get mixed in, perhaps brought in from outside by a customer. "That would be very rare," he adds. He says he and other bartenders have a precise idea of how big the foam head on a beer should be. "The way brew masters want you to pour the beer is one-and-½ inches of foam," Mr. McKellar says. "If you pour it without foam, beer connoisseurs would say it was flat."

Maybe bars should use larger glasses, Mr. Alworth counters. That way, there would be room for the full pint plus a head of foam. After learning about his Honest Pint movement, Portland's Raccoon Lodge recently started serving pints in 20-ounce glasses, up from 16 ounces. The 16-ounce glasses held only about 14.5 ounces, says restaurant manager Lisa Crombie; the 20-ounce glasses hold about 18 ounces. "We just thought it was fair," Ms. Crombie says. "People were paying for a pint, so they should get a pint."

Beer activists are talking about developing stickers to adhere to the windows of bars and restaurants where pints live up to the name. Oregon legislator Brian Clem is taking up the issue for the state's 2009 budget, hoping to fund monitoring of beer portions by the state's agriculture department.

In the U.K., the Imperial Pint (equivalent to 19.2 U.S. ounces) has been a government-regulated standard for several centuries. The standard requires use of official pint glasses -- with the word "Pint" and the European "CE" marking -- etched onto each glass. The glasses actually hold more than an Imperial Pint, so there's room for the foam.

But the regulations haven't quieted debate. In England, a group called Campaign for Real Ale has been alleging for years that bars pinch pence by pouring short. In March, the British government energized the movement by slapping a new tax on alcohol. About 23,000 people have signed a petition in favor of government regulation of the size of the foam head on a pint of beer.

Pubs that don't scrimp are undercut by pubs that do, says Nick Laver-Vincent, who owns The Royal Oak in Big Bury, England, and who signed the petition. "It is cutthroat," he says.

Beer drinkers feeling shortchanged can take immediate action: They can ask for a "top-off" after the foam on the profit pour settles. That's what George Collentine did when he was served a beer with almost two inches of foam at an Italian restaurant this month. "I just waited," says the 38-year-old chemical-company manager from Danbury, Conn. The bartender gave it to him.

Apparently a pint is only 14 ounces in Tony Roma's. When I was a youth, David Horowitz had a show on NBC called Fight Back! where he constantly challenged the corporations to have credible commericals and be fair in delivering what was expected for the correct price.

I remember one episode where they had a bowl of soup at a higher price and a cup of soup at a lower price from the same restaurant. When they poured the contents of the bowl of soup into the cup, the cup was not overflowing, but in fact, held the same amount. The restaurant was quietly ripping off the consumer.

Ever since that day, I have always looked at the size of the bowl and the cup as the servers passed and looked to see if it was in fact worth the price differential. But almost always, I order a cup of soup instead of a bowl as the lower cost is still a lower cost.

I find this situation no different.

When travelling in Europe a number of years ago, I recall seeing lines on the sides of glasses, similar to the ones you see on the sides of disposable cups at the fast food restaurants. They clearly were to mark where the fill lines were to be done so that each serving was in fact the same as the last. I didn't think much of it when it came to beer pints. But drinks at bars that were always meticulously measured or even a shot glass set on the side with your portion of alcohol was always a head scratcher for me.

I never thought about getting cheated, but now I am much more careful for where and how my dollar gets spent.

Good thing I don't drink any more... I'd be very pissed off to get 14 ounce beers instead of a 16 ounce pint.

[Poppinjay]

I remember that Fight Back show. David Horowitz possessed a unique skill for angrying up the blood. It's sad but true, there will always be an element in the business world that believes you prosper by trickery instead of quality.

I remember visiting a sub shop and hearing the go get 'em management trainee who was talking about the fact that the company had quietly changed their meat portions from 2-3-2 to 1-2-1 (for those not familiar, it means the number of types of meat ie: 1 slice ham, 2 slices salami, 1 slice ham.

He talked about what a great savings it would be, despited the fact the sandwiches were reduced to pretty much bread and lettuce.

Corporate grifters suck ass.

[snowy]

Let's just say that if a bar or pub in this town attempted to start selling pints that weren't actually pints...there would be a riot. A couple places in town serve their beer in glasses other than pint glasses--namely oversized pilsner glasses--but they are definitely 16 oz. or more. There are a couple chain restaurants that do this that I've been to out of town, but they skirt around it by serving their beer in mugs instead of pint glasses, and they don't necessarily call them pints.

But yeah, I've been out with people to restaurants where they complained that they ordered a pint and got one of these falsies. My dad would definitely bitch if he ordered a pint and got some tiny sort-of-pint instead. One of our favorite bars in the town where my best friend lives serves their beers in glasses that look like falsies, but they aren't--a friend bought the actual glass one time and we took it home and measured it. They have the thick bottom like the falsies do, but they're also bigger overall. Very confusing!

[Baraka_Guru]

It's like when they jacked up the prices of chocolate bars a while back to keep up with the cost of production. When people responded negatively, they instead just made them smaller and maintained the original pricing.

It's a balance of price and quantity. Either way, you are getting what you pay for usually. The restaurant/tavern/pub business is tough; it's not like they're all laughing all the way to the bank. (Though maybe some are.) I wouldn't feel cheated, as I'm sure if it were actually a full pint instead, it would cost more.

Maybe this is just more about the "art of the pour." I dunno. I'm no connoisseur. (Though I'd like to be.)

[highthief]

I remember Andy Rooney on 60 Minutes doing a bunch of pieces on how companies - from instant coffee companies to the breakfast cereal mafia - were fooling consumers with deceptive packaging. It's to be expected - it's harder to detect when you've had a few.

[Poppinjay]

Contents may settle during shipment, or maybe we only half filled the bag.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by highthief

I remember Andy Rooney on 60 Minutes doing a bunch of pieces on how companies - from instant coffee companies to the breakfast cereal mafia - were fooling consumers with deceptive packaging. It's to be expected - it's harder to detect when you've had a few.

Ice cream containers from manufacturers like Breyers and Dreyers/Edys keep getting smaller and smaller. Thus, I buy ice cream from a local producer who not only still sells it in the half-gallon size, but makes a better product for the price point.

[World's King]

Stick to scotch...

[canuckguy]

Funny you should post this, I was out at the Keg restaurant a couple of weeks ago and ordered a pint of coors light (watching my weight) and was shocked at first how small the glass was and how expensive it was.

I believe it was 8 bucks for the beer, i stole the glass and compared it at home and it did not even hold a bottle of beer! I only ordered one beer of course at that price. Just a plain rip off.

Everything is turning this way, you get less services on your phone plans but pay more, you get less chips but the bag is bigger and puffed out with air to make it appear more full. Everything seems to be smaller and smaller but cost more and more.

Oh well have to be more thrifty and careful of what we consume, rarely now will i go out for drinks. I can have 4 beers and it costs more than just buying a case (24 bottles) from a store? please!!!!

My backyard patio has better music and atmosphere anyway....

[Leto]

Stick to scotch.. aye! And what with the dollar so strong these days, the scotch should be getting cheaper.

[Daniel_]

This makes me laugh a little.

For years, Americans have made fun of Europeans habit of over regulating, but this is exactly why it happens.

In Europe, glasses are standardised, and have to be marked by an approved agency (such as the British Standards Institution) to guarantee the volume.

So a pint glass is always a pint. That's 20 fluid ounces.

For some reason, when you crossed the Atlantic, you lost the other 4 and made a Pint = 1 pound of water.

[little_tippler]

that is one big glass! 14 or 16 oz...

here we have the Imperial - it's about a 300 ml glass which is about a half-pint.

It's wrong to be misleading people, I agree...but I'm thinking it doesn't phase me at all because in Portugal people get away with crazy things.

Here is a funny ad from the most popular beer brand from Portugal...they do some good stuff.



(at the bottom it says "tastes like summer"...I'm sure you get the rest )

[Tully Mars]

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Ice cream containers from manufacturers like Breyers and Dreyers/Edys keep getting smaller and smaller. Thus, I buy ice cream from a local producer who not only still sells it in the half-gallon size, but makes a better product for the price point.

Umpqua?

Would have guessed Tillamook but I notice right before I left they looked like they switched to the mini containers too.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by Tully Mars

Umpqua?

Would have guessed Tillamook but I notice right before I left they looked like they switched to the mini containers too.

Lochmead--they're located in Junction City, so the ice cream is available only in Lane, Linn, and Benton counties for the most part, at Dari Mart or the hippie food co-op here in Corvallis. Umpqua's good too, though--easier to find, for sure--and they're the only ones I know of that produce a maple nut flavor.

[Tully Mars]

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Lochmead--they're located in Junction City, so the ice cream is available only in Lane, Linn, and Benton counties for the most part, at Dari Mart or the hippie food co-op here in Corvallis. Umpqua's good too, though--easier to find, for sure--and they're the only ones I know of that produce a maple nut flavor.

Ok, getting off subject.

Never heard of it but the Deri Mart on 7th was the one place in Corvallis we used to be able to buy beer under aged. Of course I never did

Sorry for the thread jack, carry on folks.

[blahblah454]

Some restaurants make no apology for reducing their beer-glass size. The Damon's Grill restaurant chain switched to 14 ouncers from 16-ounce glasses two years ago and didn't lower prices. "Someone who comes in and wants a beer doesn't want a huge glass," says Tanny Feerer, vice president for purchasing at Damon's International. "Fourteen ounces is enough." Since then, the chain has held draft beer prices steady.

Did anyone read this? Is this guy a moron? If people want small beers then why are they ordering a pint in the first place... or multiple pints! This man should be smacked.

[Tully Mars]

Originally Posted by blahblah454

Did anyone read this? Is this guy a moron? If people want small beers then why are they ordering a pint in the first place... or multiple pints! This man should be smacked.

I agree, what a load. "Hey, look were giving our customers less product for the same price because they want us to." Se it's a supply and demand issue.

When in doubt (or get caught) double speak and BS is your friend.

[Charlatan]

It's what I love about the glasses here and in Europe... they have the measure written on them by law. Don't fuck with my pint.

[Cynthetiq]

Originally Posted by World's King

Stick to scotch...

You can still short pour a scotch...

[SSJTWIZTA]

I find that beer is too expensive at restaurants so i hardly ever drink out. I know if i do buy some brew at a diner or whatnot, for the price, i expect to get what im fucking paying for. This is an outrage and a smack in the face for any beer drinker.

i wonder if one (assuming that they already havnt given up on the place)
could bring in their own pint glass and demand that it be properly filled all the way to the "Pint" line.

Originally Posted by blahblah54

Did anyone read this? Is this guy a moron? If people want small beers then why are they ordering a pint in the first place... or multiple pints! This man should be smacked.

agreed, anyone feel like forming a mob?

[blahblah454]

Mob!!! Lets Do This Motherfucker!!!! Raaaarrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Milkyway]

This is exactly why I love ladies night-cheap drinks. I don't care what size they are just keep 'em coming till I say stop! (Plus got a friend whose a bar tender at a hot club and he gets me drinks for free all night long and even after closing when he works-plus he'll give me a ride home so I don't get into trouble. It's nice to have friends.)

But what happened to "a pint's a pound the whole world round", wont work if a pint isn't a pint anymore, damn American measuring system.

[Poppinjay]

I've also switched to ice tea or water if I'm eating out. The only place I drink beer is Captain Ratty's in eastern NC. When you order a pint there, they ask "Imperial or American?"

Imperial is 20 oz. I highly recommend Ratty's for anybody visiting the right coast. Come in your sunday best, come in your fowlies, come in anyways and you get great beer and mussels.

http://www.captainrattys.com/rattycam.htm

[Leto]

It seems that the US has their own special pint, called the US Liquid Pint, and contains a volume of 473 ml. (16 oz)

In the UK, the (Imperial) Pint is 20% bigger in volume (568 ml) at 20 oz.

I recall that in the days before we went metric and switched to litres for gasoline, our gallons were Imperial gallons and were bigger than the American gallon.


But anyways, the American pint is measured off as one eigth of a British Wine Gallon defined in 1707 as 231 cubic inches of volume.

In 1824, the Brits standardized their gallon to the Imperial Gallon size, which is the size of 10 pounds of distilled water at 62 degrees F. A british pint is one eigth of that.

In metric, a pint is usually rounded off to 500 mls.

Best of all I like the Scottish Pint: equal to 3 imperial pints. Too bad it is now obsolete!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint

[Daniel_]

Originally Posted by Leto

It seems that the US has their own special pint, called the US Liquid Pint, and contains a volume of 473 ml. (16 oz)

In the UK, the (Imperial) Pint is 20% bigger in volume (568 ml) at 20 oz.

I recall that in the days before we went metric and switched to litres for gasoline, our gallons were Imperial gallons and were bigger than the American gallon.


But anyways, the American pint is measured off as one eigth of a British Wine Gallon defined in 1707 as 231 cubic inches of volume.

In 1824, the Brits standardized their gallon to the Imperial Gallon size, which is the size of 10 pounds of distilled water at 62 degrees F. A british pint is one eigth of that.

In metric, a pint is usually rounded off to 500 mls.

Best of all I like the Scottish Pint: equal to 3 imperial pints. Too bad it is now obsolete!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pint

I learned the Imperial system and drinking in England. A good beer in this country is often 4 - 5% ABV, and a pint is 20 fl oz.

I thought it hillarious as a student to meet Americans who thought they could drink because "back home" they had five pints on an evening. Obviously that's 5 pints of beer at 2 - 3% ABV and a pint is 16fl oz.

So 5 x 16 = 80 fl oz. at 2% that's the equivalent of 1.6 oz of pure ethanol.

In English beer, that's 32 fl oz (at 5%), so 1 1/2 pints.

It's fun teaching Americans that they know shit about beer.

[snowy]

Originally Posted by Daniel_

I learned the Imperial system and drinking in England. A good beer in this country is often 4 - 5% ABV, and a pint is 20 fl oz.

I thought it hillarious as a student to meet Americans who thought they could drink because "back home" they had five pints on an evening. Obviously that's 5 pints of beer at 2 - 3% ABV and a pint is 16fl oz.

So 5 x 16 = 80 fl oz. at 2% that's the equivalent of 1.6 oz of pure ethanol.

In English beer, that's 32 fl oz (at 5%), so 1 1/2 pints.

It's fun teaching Americans that they know shit about beer.

The beer we drink in Oregon is typically over 5% ABV; microbrews and craft brews have higher alcohol content, and they're what's popular here. One of my favorites is a beer brewed down in California by Stone Brewing called Arrogant Bastard--it comes in at 7.2%. When I am planning on an evening of drinking with friends, I usually go for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, which clocks in at 5.6%. Bud and Miller and the ilk come in at 3.2% ABV, but most people around here don't drink that.

I wouldn't drink 5 pints in an evening regardless...two is good enough for me. My heavy drinking days are long over--my stomach can't hold that much beer any more!

[Strange Famous]

Not serving beer in pints would be a criminal offence in England.

I dont know if thats true, but it bloody well should be.

[Reese]

If they say it's a pint, it should be a pint. If they're selling it as a glass of beer, they can serve it in a 5oz glass if they want. Portion control is a big part of maintaining a successful business and sometimes lowering serving is preferred over raising prices. The size of the drink doesn't automatically mean they're ripping you off. Just because they're getting a few more drinks out of a keg as long as they're not making absolutely huge net profits then I don't see a problem.

I do agree that advertising as a pint and only serving 14oz is not fair business practices and it happens everywhere. Fast food joints fill cups full of ice and you hardly get any Soda, I've started ordering inside just so i can fill my own cup

[Daniel_]

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Not serving beer in pints would be a criminal offence in England.

I dont know if thats true, but it bloody well should be.

It is.

[Strange Famous]

I mean obviously you can sell 330ml bottles of beer - but when you go to the bar you dont say "a stella" you say "a pint of stella" (or whatever) - and a pub would lose its license for underselling if W&M visit.

I deal with Trading Standards a bit in my job and they can be a pain in the ass (like when you have to pay an extra £200 just to have some twat come out with a stamp to seal a pump) but in this case they obviously protect a vital freedom.

[Cynthetiq]

I recall some of them having actual fill lines etched or painted on them too.

and anyone who inists on a lots of head on their beer or ale is an idiot right off the bat.

damn that's making me thirsty on this hot day in the city.

[kutulu]

I understand that costs rise and businesses are forced with the choice of either raising prices or skimping portions. What is unacceptable is claiming something is what it is not.

If a bar wants to stop selling pints and start using smaller glasses, that is fine. However, they should NOT be allowed to call it a pint. That is fraud.

[QuasiMondo]

I'm sure what the restaurants are banking on the fact that most people will be too drunk to notice that they're being shorted 2 ounces.

Well, I guess it's back to the 12oz bottles for me. Those ounces are guaranteed.

[Strange Famous]

America must have a version of weights and measures?

I mean, it seriously cant be legal to order a "pint" and be served less?

Its no different to buying a gallon of gas and actually only get 4 litres... its theft on the part of the seller.

[kutulu]

If I got 4 liters instead of a gallon I'd be happy. 4 liters = 1.056 US liquid gallons.

[Strange Famous]

Mate, a gallon is 4.55 litres

[kutulu]

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

Mate, a gallon is 4.55 litres

That is a UK gallon.

[Leto]

aha.. see? (go read Post 24)

[Daniel_]

Originally Posted by kutulu

That is a UK gallon.

Strange Famous
Adam The Word King




Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ipswich, UK

[Strange Famous]

Well, I never knew that America had its own gallons. I mean, is it like this with everything?

Like is a foot still 12 inches, is a mile still the same amount of yards?