Michael Richards racist, act, what was it really? and should he be sued for it? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

dalnet22 · 11-23-2006, 05:31 PM

I just want to add that I can understand how Mr. Richards can make those comments and not be racist. If I'm trying to get back at a man for pissing me off on stage, I would use words that I know will hurt. The most hurtful words I know are of racist connotation.

While I don't condone it, I totally believe when he says he not racist.

flstf · 11-24-2006, 12:23 PM

Richards (Kramer) probably remembers the Seinfeld episode where Jerry was heckled at the comedy club then went to the person's office to get even and heckle them at their job?

If the comedy clubs try to censure racially offensive language I guess guys like Mencia, etc.. will have to get new joke writers.

FoolThemAll · 11-24-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

If the comedy clubs try to censure racially offensive language I guess guys like Mencia, etc.. will have to get new joke writers.

Mencia needs to get new joke writers either way.

Xera · 11-24-2006, 11:53 PM

Heckling is rude, obnoxious, and can be considered somewhat harrassing. I NEVER have sympathy for hecklers. I go through life pretty much with the attitude that we are supposed to follow here. If you don't like what you see, leave.

That said, the measure of a man is how well he deals with stressful situations. Apparantly Richard is not a very nice man. oh well.

I think hecklers ought to be tossed out of comedy clubs because they do tend to take the jokes away from the comedian that I paid to see. If I wanted to see some two bit, thinks he's funny, wannabe comedian I could stay home and listen to my 4 year old.

If you pick a fight with someone you don't really get much sympathy from me when that person hurts your feelings right back.

As a white person that KNOWS I will forever be a racist if I even think the *n* word to hard, I do find it offensive that the very same word is said by the people who are supposedly finding it offensive for me to say.

See I'm coming off sounding like I support the way Richard handled this situation, and that is not true. I don't. In fact if the lawsuite hadn't been brought up I would very much up in arms about a perfomer abusing his customers and not performing.

Racism is not illegal. Discrimination is, but even then only in specific areas, and only when federal money is involved. People in this country are allowed to say whatever the hell they want to unless such words could reasonably be expected to lead to harm of another.

It wouldn't surprise me if this heckler had baited Richard on purpose to cause just this reaction just so he could sue. Things happened pretty fast to be a coincidence I think.

Intense1 · 11-25-2006, 12:27 AM

Stand up comedians must be immune to heckling if they want to succeed in their line of work - it's no different for Michael Richards than it is for any other comedian, just because he was on a popular sitcom. He's not Kramer anymore, he's Michael Richards, stand up comedian, and he has to earn laughs just like every other standup has done.

Therefore, if he chooses to sabotage his career by shouting racial slurs to hecklers instead of overcoming the taunts of these same hecklers, then he will not be successful. This is the mark of a good comedian - the ability to deal with hecklers, and fire off the funny comments that will diffuse a heckler situation. And it doesn't matter how much PR Jerry Seinfeld does or Dave Letterman does, Michael Richards will not recover from this immense blunder.

As for using the "N" word over and over again - we all know that it is only acceptable for black comedians to use this term in comedy, don't we? It is so much a part of our history here in America that those of us who are white and have black friends would NEVER ever call them the "N" word, even if they call themselves or their friends that. There is too much history behind the term for it to be any different.

Michael Richards should not be sued - he has the right of free speech, just as every one of us has. But his career may well indeed suffer for it. And perhaps, that would be the best revenge. The right of free speech has a responsibility attached to it - a person is responsible for the things they say, and must bear the consequences of it.

DaElf · 11-25-2006, 01:55 AM

The double standard is getting old. It's all ok or none of it's ok. If someone can say cracker or jew or whop or zipper head or whatever and it's ok; I can say nigger anyway I want and so can Richards. Any whining from the man suing Richards is a great display of hypocrisy.

People calling Richards a racist on you tube is so funny. What's even more funny is these people calling him ignorant OH THE IRONY.

pan6467 · 11-25-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaElf

The double standard is getting old. It's all ok or none of it's ok. If someone can say cracker or jew or whop or zipper head or whatever and it's ok; I can say nigger anyway I want and so can Richards. Any whining from the man suing Richards is a great display of hypocrisy.

People calling Richards a racist on you tube is so funny. What's even more funny is these people calling him ignorant OH THE IRONY.

Below is something written by a black man on Richard Pryor and his use of the word "nigger". I found this doing a search for Richard Pryor talking about his trip to Africa and how he had used the word up and till then. It's a very great article, I hope you read it, I've highlighted the thread relevent portions, but the whole thing is a good read.

LINK: http://www.popmatters.com/film/featu...ardpryor.shtml

Quote:

A Nigger Un-Reconstructed: The Legacy of Richard Pryor
[15 December 2005]

by Mark Anthony Neal

"I think that niggers are the best of people who were slaves, and that's how they got to be niggers 'cause they stole the cream-of-the-crop from Africa and brought them over here. And God, as they say, works in mysterious ways, so he made everybody a nigger…he brought us all over here — the best — the kings and queens, the princesses, the princes, put us all together and called us one tribe: Niggers." — Richard Pryor, Wattstax (1973)

When Richard Pryor walked off the stage for the last time on December 10th he did so quietly, with little of the verve and brashness that defined so many of his groundbreaking moments as a storyteller, comedian, recording artist, and actor. For all the direct links made between the late Pryor and post-Civil Rights comedic icons like Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock (both notably in their early 40s), "hip-hop generation jr." has had little connection with Richard Pryor and his art. Pryor was a product of another era, but it was in the midst of that era that he redefined how America confronted the issue of race (and black masculinity), thereby paving the way for mainstream acceptance of hip-hop's own irreverence and provocative nature.

Born in 1940 and raised in Peoria, IL, Pryor regularly discussed his early years growing up under the watchful eye of his grandmother, who owned a brothel in the city. Pryor's parents, in fact, worked at the same brothel. Those days opened Pryor's eyes to a world that was largely hidden from White America; a world premised on the realities of Jim Crow segregation and a world that had to remain behind the soiled veil of racism, if Black America was ever to achieve full participation in the so-called American Dream.

When Pryor began to work the chitlin' circuit in the early '60s and later the clubs of New York City's Greenwich Village, he worked amongst a generation of black entertainers, who took seriously the charge of putting the "best face of the race" forward, as black political activists in the South sought to directly challenge the legalities of racial segregation. For many black performers, the point was to use their talents to appeal to the common humanity shared between blacks and their white audiences.

As Michael Eric Dyson suggests in his recent book Is Bill Cosby Right?: Or Has the Black Middle Class Lost its Mind? (Basic Civitas Books, April 2005), no black entertainer did this more effectively during that era than Bill Cosby. For Pryor, Cosby became the template for his early success as a comedian. It was just the first example of Pryor's ability of follow the money trail -- a trait that would undermine him throughout his career -- as he became little more than "Cosby, Jr." when booked on television shows like The Tonight Show and The Merv Griffin Show (Griffin takes great credit for helping to launch Pryor's career).

But for all of those black performers who sought to make themselves palatable to whites, there were other examples of folk, who poet and Miles Davis biographer Quincy Troupe describes as "unreconstructed"; folk who never sought to remix blackness for white comfort or consumption. While such "unreconstructed-ness" is largely a myth -- we all capitulate to the so-called "white gaze" in one form of another to gain access to institutions we deem important to our well being -- it helped create mythic icons, which became synonymous with not dancing the dance of racial ingratiation. Miles Davis is the most visible example of this.

But what Pryor understood perhaps better than anyone as the Civil Right Movement waned, was that the "unreconstructed" black was as much an insincere performance of blackness as the "ready for integration players" (to turn a phrase from that other black trickster from the era) . When Pryor put "little Cosby" to rest in the late '60s -- dramatically walking off stage muttering "what am I doing here?" -- he did so because of those memories of the black underground in Peoria.

Pryor re-emerged in 1971 from a self-imposed period of isolation; hanging out in Berkeley, reading the Autobiography of Malcolm X, listening to Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On", and reflecting on his youth in Peoria. He did so as a social commentator, using his talents to speak to the realities of race in America and class within Black America. In his autobiography, Pryor Convictions and Other Life Sentences (Pantheon, 1997), Pryor says "There was a world of junkies and winos, pool hustlers and prostitutes, women and family screaming inside my head, trying to be heard."

The voices that Pryor heard in his head -- the "niggers" in his head -- were the same "niggers" that both the Civil Rights guard and the Black Power elite had a vested interest in killing-off (think about the Last Poets' "Niggers Are Scared of Revolution"). Pryor knew better; he had long known better. Those "niggers" were the salt of the earth and he suggested as much during the 1973 concert documentary Wattstax, where he describes "niggers" as the "best of people who were slaves." In a collection of ground-breaking and award winning albums throughout the '70s, including That Nigger's Crazy (1974) and Bicentennial Nigger (1976), Pryor brought his "niggers" to life -- and these were "niggers" unreconstructed with no allegiance to looking good for the race or for the cause.

There's little doubt though, that Pryor also saw "niggers" through the lens of a society that freely denied blacks humanity and forced them to the margins of civil society to scuffle and hustle for whatever semblance of a life they could create. Indeed, his own life as a child bore witness to that reality. His suggestion that niggers function as a "tribe" (Wattstax) points to Pryor's ultimate belief that there was potential power in those tightly-knit, spatially-challenged, and sparsely-resourced "nigger" enclaves.

Though many cite Richard Pryor Live in Concert, his 1979 film, as the apex of his creative talents, I'd like to highlight an earlier moment in Pryor's career that speaks to his genius as a comic and social critic and the very limits of that genius. Pryor was asked to host an episode of Saturday Night Live in the show's debut season. In what has become one of the show's most classic moments, Pryor and Chevy Chase did a parody of a job interview. As the interviewer, Chase engages Pryor in a name association exercise, which quickly devolves into a name-calling exchange where Pryor responds to Chase's invocation of the word "nigger!" with the threat "Deeeeeead honkey!"

The sketch could easily be viewed as evidence of the new found freedoms experienced by blacks in the post-Civil Rights era -- racial epithets against blacks forcibly challenged by violent threats -- but the end-game of the exchange was that Pryor's character was offered a job and salary that made him the "highest paid janitor" in America. Here the writers at Saturday Night Live tap into the burgeoning anxieties about Affirmative Action -- anxieties premised, in part, on the belief that blacks were being unfairly rewarded because of the bully-pulpit that charges of racism afforded them.

As the Reagan era dawned and Pryor desired a wider audience, his brilliant Bicentennial Nigger (1976) becomes one of that last examples of Pryor pursuing the kinds of social justice concerns in his comedy that had marked his transformation earlier in the decade of the '70s. The biting commentary of his albums would never translate to his film roles (Blue Collar might be the exception) or his television appearances. Indeed when Pryor aborted The Richard Pryor Show (1977) after only shooting four episodes (he was contracted to do 10) he told the show's writing staff, "You know something? I don't want to be on TV. I'm in a trap. I can't do this -- there ain't no art." (reported in Newsweek 3 October, 1977).

In truth Pryor was dealing with an on-going drug addiction that would have near tragic implications in 1980, when the comic was burned in an "accident" while freebasing. (Pryor referred to the accident as an attempt at suicide). Pryor's social commentary allowed him to assuage the pain of his upbringing in Peoria and when that avenue was no longer available to him he chose the rewards of mainstream success. Unfortunately for Pryor the fame and wealth that his cross-over status afforded him did not bring the peace that he so desired.

Bicentennial Nigger was released he same year that Pryor appeared in Silver Streak with Gene Wilder (one of their many cinematic collaborations). Though Pryor had earned critical acclaim for his role as "Piano Man" in Lady Sings the Blues (1972) and had star turns in black-themed films like Car Wash, The Bingo Long Traveling All-Stars and Motor Kings (about the Negro baseball leagues), and Uptown Saturday Night (his Sharp Eye Washington steals the movie), and would later star in a film about black stock car driver Wendell Scott (Greased Lighting), Silver Streak marked his first major attempt to cross-over to the white mainstream. By the time Pryor starred in the film version of Neil Simon's California Suite (garnering a higher salary than his mentor Cosby, who was also in the film), he had become the black-face of cross-over possibilities.

His status as the quintessential black cross-over star was cemented with the Sidney Poitier-directed Stir Crazy (1980), also starring Wilder, which grossed more than $100 million. But Pryor's willingness to submit himself to the paper chase had notable impact on the cutting-edge personas that he crafted on his albums and stand-up performances. As Ed Guerrero notes in Framing Blackness: The African American Image in Film (Temple University Press, 1993), "The usual consumer-spectator refused to accept Pryor on his own self-defined cinematic terms, which always involved an exploration and sharp articulation of the bittersweet ironies of racial injustice and black life in America. The market audience supported only Pryor's roles as a comic foil or scene stealer, cast in films with a white lead."

In the aftermath of his accident in 1980 and needing to meet medical expenses and the like, Pryor often sought roles on the basis of the payday. For example, when asked about why he chose his brief role in Superman III, Pryor responded "It really was the $4 million". Pryor's salary for the film was unprecedented for a black actor and highlighted the value that Hollywood placed on his cross-over power. This would be one of Pryor's last great paydays as the very black cross-over strategy that he took advantage of was very quickly being used to push a 20-something Eddie Murphy as the "new Richard Pryor". One of the measurements of how fast Pryor was descending was his experience with his production company, Indigo. Columbia pictures gave Pryor's company $40 million and the ability to greenlight the film, but after a year of internal struggles with the company's staff (including actor and former NFL great Jim Brown, who helped nurse Pryor back to health after his near fatal "accident"), Pryor returned the money.

Excepting those who were fortunate enough to hear Pryor's albums on their parents' record players in the '70s, many within the hip-hop generation were unfortunately introduced to Pryor via dismal vehicles such as Brewster's Millions (1985) and Critical Condition (1987). When Pryor and Redd Foxx paired opposite Eddie Murphy in Harlem Nights (1989), one could already see the early ravages of multiple sclerosis on Pryor -- he was a shell of himself. Pryor's semi-autobiographical Jo Jo Dancer, Your Life is Calling (arguably one of his better films) was lost on a generation of folk who were not privy to the context that made Pryor's earlier work so compelling.

And yet Pryor was one of the critical forces that allowed for the mainstreaming of hip-hop in the late '80s and early '90s. Pryor made explicitly public the dark, funky, bittersweet, and beautiful realities of black life behind the color line, and offended a great many black folk who wanted those realities to remain out-of-sight from the white gaze. Pryor wasn't simply airing the proverbial "dirty laundry", but like Langston Hughes before him -- The Weary Blues (1926) and Fine Clothes to the Jew (1927) being fine examples -- he celebrated the full, diverse and vibrant humanity of black folk, particularly the "niggers".

Much has been made in recent years about Pryor's very public censure of himself, for his long time use of the world "nigger". As Pryor recalled in his concert film Here and Now (1983) and later shared with audiences of Essence Magazine in 1984, he was traveling throughout the continent of Africa and a voice inside him asked "Do you see any niggers?" and he had to come to terms with the fact that he didn't see any. Pryor's repudiation of the word "nigger" has been invoked numerous times to sanction hip-hop culture's liberal use of the word and most recently in critiques of Aaron McGruder's television series The Boondocks. As award-winning journalist Leonard Pitts wrote a few years ago, "we've become entirely too casual, too gratuitous, with this instrument of disparagement" (Denver Post 26 March, 1998).

When Pryor made his claim about the word's use (and we have no knowledge about whether he used the word in his private life) he was paying penance for a wide range of behaviors and trying to get back in the good graces of the American public. But I'd like to also suggest that Pryor's rejection of "nigger" was also about finally putting to bed a particular paradigm of American race relations that no longer functioned in the post-Civil Rights/Reagan-era. Indeed, he was paying penance for the 'sin' of making White America uncomfortable with the issue of race (much like we've seen with Muhammad Ali over the last decade).

The "nigga" that found his redemption via 808 machines of the '80s had nothing to do with the world that Pryor had navigated and eventually lost part of his soul to. In truth, Richard Pryor had little to offer the hip-hop generation -- his peers were men who pitched Jello and Bahamian diets and this is not to disparage any of them, but simply a reminder that the world had changed and it would be the Chris Rocks, Robin Harrises (really a transitional figure) and Dave Chappelles of the world who would best capture the sad, tragicomic realities of the hip-hop generation.

Richard Pryor was much more complex than the profanity that garnered him an audience and a devoted following. For Pryor a word like "nigger" was not profane -- it was born out of the realities of race in America and he always acknowledged the humanity of those "niggers" by allowing them to speak freely back to the world via his stand-up comedy. The lives "niggers" were forced to live were profane -- not the word used to describe them.

If there's a lesson to be learned by the hip-hop generation, it's not that we should put our "niggas" away in the closet, but that we should be clear that with each invocation of the "niggas" that we are shedding light on the humanity of those folks who still live a reality defined by the dirty, nasty business of race, gender, and poverty in the United States. Richard Pryor was a "nigger" unreconstructed, and for that we are thankful.

Mister Coaster · 11-25-2006, 07:32 AM

Great article.

And the more I hear about the whole situation makes me beleive the whole thing was in fact staged. It's sad, really. What people will do to make a few bucks in DVD sales.

mixedmedia · 11-25-2006, 08:04 AM

I think it's a pretty unfortunate situation. I do believe in the sincerity of Richards' apology and his assertion that he just "flipped out."

Then again, I always leave room for a little skepticism when it comes to celebrity "scandals."

As to whether he should be sued, I don't think that question is relevant. People can sue anyone they want when they feel they have been wronged and deserve restitution. I don't have an opinion on that.

Cynthetiq · 11-25-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

All i am going to say is, I am SO happy for the video capture technology in cellphones and digital cams- they have given us video insights into events that would otherwise have been nothing more than "he said, she said" with the sole reliance on witness accounts.

There have been so many events that would possibly have remained speculation, gossip, and eyewitness sound bytes had it not been for this technology.

That being said, I don't think he's a racist, he just has poor judgment of "pushing the envelope", and isn't a very good stand-up comedian in general. I don't know why anyone is drawing any parallels or making any references to the late, great comedy legend Andy Kaufman. Michael Richards couldn't be like Andy Kaufman in his dreams.

And unless he's an incredibly good actor (and i've watched enough Seinfeld to say that he isn't), it's really hard to fake the nervous, sad, shaky and ashamed discomfort that was present in his voice when talking to David Letterman. He just made a terrible error in judgment on what he thought was "push the envelope for humor", and went way into "just insulting people" because he was losing it.

While that may be the case, each time someone does use the camera and record something somewhere that has posted signage that says, "recording expressly prohibited" then they themselves are also breaking the law. I'm quite sure that the Laugh Factory has such signage, and again, for the very reasons to protect their "assets" of live shows and their ability to record and archive it for themselves.

as far as the hecklers are concerned, you don't go to see live stand up and NOT expect to get heckled. If you want to see a comedian and not get heckled go to a large venue and sit way in the back, not a small comedy club that seats a couple hundred people.

jorgelito · 11-25-2006, 11:57 AM

Absolutely, clearly Kramer lost his professionalism. I would like to see the original heckle that allegedly started the whole tirade response. But so far it appears that Kramer went overboard with some racial taunts and the audience responded and then Kramer went completely nuts and psycho.

Ah, well, give a man enough rope......

Psycho Dad · 11-25-2006, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixedmedia

As to whether he should be sued, I don't think that question is relevant. People can sue anyone they want when they feel they have been wronged and deserve restitution. I don't have an opinion on that.

I've got an opinion on that. True it seems people can sue when they feel they've been wronged. However it is a terrible fact that people feel they should sue just because they get their shorts in a bunch.

Had Richards denied anyone a job, housing, healthcare, etc due to race, the victim should feel free to use our taxpayer supported judicial system to the fullest extent. In this case, Richards called someone a name that many find offensive. In this situation, let it go and move on.

mixedmedia · 11-25-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

I've got an opinion on that. True it seems people can sue when they feel they've been wronged. However it is a terrible fact that people feel they should sue just because they get their shorts in a bunch.

Had Richards denied anyone a job, housing, healthcare, etc due to race, the victim should feel free to use our taxpayer supported judicial system to the fullest extent. In this case, Richards called someone a name that many find offensive. In this situation, let it go and move on.

This case probably wouldn't even make the top 1,000 of ridiculous law suits to be brought before a civil court judge next year. In light of that, I don't see the point in having much of an opinion on it one way or the other. So in a roundabout way, I guess I am agreeing with you.

Telluride · 11-25-2006, 07:52 PM

I think it was racist, but I don't think he should be sued because of it.

Charlatan · 11-25-2006, 08:04 PM

To me, this is a non-issue.

People do this sort of stupid shit all the time. Sure it's wrong. Sure it's tasteless and offensive.

The fact that it was caught on video and broadcast to the world and the fact that he is someone moderately rich and famous are the only reason why this is even being talked about.

I am choosing to not to give a damn. I think we waste too many brain cells being titillated by things that really don't matter.

percy · 11-26-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

To me, this is a non-issue.

People do this sort of stupid shit all the time. Sure it's wrong. Sure it's tasteless and offensive.

The fact that it was caught on video and broadcast to the world and the fact that he is someone moderately rich and famous are the only reason why this is even being talked about.

I am choosing to not to give a damn. I think we waste too many brain cells being titillated by things that really don't matter.

I agree. The next time a black, white, hispanic, jew, asian etc is insulted in any racial sense I'm going to them to shut the fuck up and stop being a whiny cry baby.

Maybe then one day we will all see ourselves as equal rather than those who have an agenda to profit in whatever way possible.

Maybe then racism will go away and we will only be left with words.

Charlatan · 11-26-2006, 03:09 PM

Percy, if this were just about racism I would agree with you.

This isn't about righting a wrong or looking at the underlying or even the surface causes of racism.

All this is is more celebrity titillation. This whole event isn't much different from Lindsay Lohan getting caught on tape calling Paris Hilton a cunt.

If I felt that taking Michael Richards to task was going to do anything to stop racism, I'd take the opportunity to discuss this.

I just don't see it.

percy · 11-26-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

All this is is more celebrity titillation. This whole event isn't much different from Lindsay Lohan getting caught on tape calling Paris Hilton a cunt.

So,....because someone is a celebrity they can't be a racist because,...people are waiting for them to say stupid things? Or they can be but it isnt inherently their fault because we all say racists things,...but don't have a camera in our faces 24/7?

If that were the case then why did half the Catholic world have to apologize to Jews for Mel Gibson right down to the holocaust. Even the archibishop in the city I live apologized for Mel Gibson.

Or is it just racism when the right culture and religion gets offended?

And if your not a racist for saying out loud racist statements, can you be a racist and not say racists statements outwardly in a public manner? And if so or not, how could one tell either way?

pig · 11-26-2006, 08:28 PM

percy,

charlatan isn't disagreeing with you. he's simply not going to get into a serious discussion of kramer being a racist. i think he's just saying its irrelevant and (now I'm adding words) completely indeterminant based on what we know via the media. simmer down a touch.

To paraphrase:

Quote:

That's totally inappropriate. It's lewd, lascivious, salacious, outrageous!

Charlatan · 11-27-2006, 07:11 AM

Thanks piglet. That's pretty much right.

percy · 11-27-2006, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

percy,

charlatan isn't disagreeing with you. he's simply not going to get into a serious discussion of kramer being a racist. i think he's just saying its irrelevant and (now I'm adding words) completely indeterminant based on what we know via the media. simmer down a touch.

Pigglet, I got the drift the first time from the source, but thanks anyways

And when did Charlatan make you his nigger? Just kidding

Just being a cunt you know, no harm, no foul.

NCB · 11-27-2006, 08:53 PM

The only role this guy is gonna get now is something from a Mel Gibson flick

analog · 11-27-2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

While that may be the case, each time someone does use the camera and record something somewhere that has posted signage that says, "recording expressly prohibited" then they themselves are also breaking the law.

I don't disagree, I was speaking to the general notion of having such a technology and its use wherever something "worthwhile" might take place. As far as this instance in this club is concerned- sure, the person who taped it broke a rule if such a sign exists. I ignored that distinction because I didn't think of it, and probably wouldn't care enough to mention it, had I thought of it. lol

Miss Mango · 11-28-2006, 06:02 PM

Watching it, at first it does seem like hes trying to be funny, and its a part of his routine. (Im keeping in mind the fact that the video starts after he goes batty.) So I think they were waiting for the punchline or the end of the bit. They also might have been laughing because the hecklers won and he was driven off the stage.

During his apology on Letterman, Jerry Seinfeld actually has to tell the audience to stop laughing. I think that might be the same thing - those members of the audience thought the apology was a skit of some sort or a joke. I use joke in two ways: it was meant to be funny or it was funny because he supposedly is apologetic, you know what I mean?

He looks unhinged and kind of drugged (sedatives? narcotics? something else?) during that bizarre appearance. Hes all jittery and not making much sense. Talking about force fields and trailing off... And the backdrop looks like a jail or a mental hospital. (Purposefully setup that way, to visually insinuate this guy isnt in his right mind?) He definitely cracked up at some point and whether hes medicated in some way or not isnt the issue.

Is he racist? Seems to be. Banned from the Laugh Factory? Good. Being sued? FOR CHRISTS SAKE! This isnt a legal matter. I wish people would stop filing lawsuits over things like this.

Look, I think Michael Richards is talented. I think he is genuinely regretful, but thats probably because hes sullied his public image, to say the least.

As for him being washed up - and Im talking pre-stand-up-breakdown - people said that about Julia Louis-Dreyfus (the Seinfeld curse thing) and she made a comeback.
He might have been able to do the same.
But he blew it with that blow out.

Psycho Dad · 11-29-2006, 04:52 AM

Jesse Jackson has chimed in now calling for a boycott of the DVDs that are being released. Jackson states that Kramer shouldn't make any money off of this. And yes Jackson said Kramer, not Richards. And I guess this means that Jerry, Elaine and George shouldn't get paid for the DVDs as well the way Jackson sees it. (I'd wager Seinfeld and Larry David are the only ones making any big money from it anyway). And this was after Richards went on Jackson's show to apologize so not only did Richards real name stick, Jackson must not have accepted the apology.

Miss Mango · 11-30-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Jackson states that Kramer shouldnt make any money off of this. And yes Jackson said Kramer, not Richards.

Shortly after this incident, Kenny Im The Real Kramer! Kramer* issued a statement asking the public to not confuse him with the character.
Jacksons words are bound to upset the real Kramer.

*For those of you who either arent into Seinfeld or havent heard of this dude: Kramer is based on Kenny Kramer, who has been trying to capitalize on his Kramerness for years.

fightnight · 11-30-2006, 04:47 PM

I just wanted to post this as an example of a way in which someone can properly deal with a heckler, and make a joke out of it, and not flip out at the crowd. This is from the Dane Cook CD, and there's a heckler you can audibly hear in the background and he replies with:

"Shut up. Seriously. shut up. Shut your fucking mouth. Don't point back at me. I'll throw you out. SHUT up."

Then the crowd gets awkwardly silent after that and Dane follows with:

"....great vibe in here right now. Like daddy just hit mommy at the dinner table. (in voice of mother) Just eat, mommy's ok. Daddy just got a little angry. Just eat!"

Anyways, I noticed above someone said that there is a good way to deal with hecklers and it brought this to mind.

Moskie · 12-01-2006, 10:24 AM

I heard that some leaders of the black community are calling for a ban on the N-word (am i allowed to say nigger?).

This is a bad idea.

All this controversy about a single word is doing something that no one wants: it's making the word more powerful.

People who say that the word is so hateful and evil that it must never be said are engaging in a losing battle. You can't prevent people from saying a word. They can always use their lips to form the word, and it will be said. By getting enraged by its use, you're just handing a weapon on a silver platter to racists around the world who get their rocks off by pissing off black people.

If Richards' rant pisses you off: ignore him. Don't let him on your TV shows to apologize. Don't let it get you angry. Just.... ignore it. That's the only way this problem will go away.

Ace_O_Spades · 12-01-2006, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fightnight

I just wanted to post this as an example of a way in which someone can properly deal with a heckler, and make a joke out of it, and not flip out at the crowd. This is from the Dane Cook CD, and there's a heckler you can audibly hear in the background and he replies with:

"Shut up. Seriously. shut up. Shut your fucking mouth. Don't point back at me. I'll throw you out. SHUT up."

Then the crowd gets awkwardly silent after that and Dane follows with:

"....great vibe in here right now. Like daddy just hit mommy at the dinner table. (in voice of mother) Just eat, mommy's ok. Daddy just got a little angry. Just eat!"

Anyways, I noticed above someone said that there is a good way to deal with hecklers and it brought this to mind.

I have this CD, and I agree, it is awesome.

flstf · 12-01-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskie

I heard that some leaders of the black community are calling for a ban on the N-word (am i allowed to say nigger?).

This is a bad idea.

All this controversy about a single word is doing something that no one wants: it's making the word more powerful.

Perhaps stand-up comics should only use a niggardly amount of racial slurs if at all.

pan6467 · 12-01-2006, 11:44 AM

Well, so in a country of free speech they want to "ban" a word?

And they will figure a way to make sure this word is banned, that no one in public will be able to say it. Then Kike, Mick, Dego, Spic, wetback, chink.... etc will all be banned..... then cunt and prick, bitch and bastard...... then they'll start in on other words and pretty soon names themselves will be wrong because from a name someone may make the wrong guess as to your heritage and offend you.... so then we'll just become numbers....

I believed we were a free country once..... damned if our own people decided to beg the government to take those freedoms away.

izzzzy · 12-10-2006, 02:49 PM

he aint no lenny bruce.

mixedmedia · 12-10-2006, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by izzzzy

he aint no lenny bruce.

Good fucking point.

11-24-2006, 11:53 PM	#44 (permalink)
Xera Crazy	Heckling is rude, obnoxious, and can be considered somewhat harrassing. I NEVER have sympathy for hecklers. I go through life pretty much with the attitude that we are supposed to follow here. If you don't like what you see, leave. That said, the measure of a man is how well he deals with stressful situations. Apparantly Richard is not a very nice man. oh well. I think hecklers ought to be tossed out of comedy clubs because they do tend to take the jokes away from the comedian that I paid to see. If I wanted to see some two bit, thinks he's funny, wannabe comedian I could stay home and listen to my 4 year old. If you pick a fight with someone you don't really get much sympathy from me when that person hurts your feelings right back. As a white person that KNOWS I will forever be a racist if I even think the n word to hard, I do find it offensive that the very same word is said by the people who are supposedly finding it offensive for me to say. See I'm coming off sounding like I support the way Richard handled this situation, and that is not true. I don't. In fact if the lawsuite hadn't been brought up I would very much up in arms about a perfomer abusing his customers and not performing. Racism is not illegal. Discrimination is, but even then only in specific areas, and only when federal money is involved. People in this country are allowed to say whatever the hell they want to unless such words could reasonably be expected to lead to harm of another. It wouldn't surprise me if this heckler had baited Richard on purpose to cause just this reaction just so he could sue. Things happened pretty fast to be a coincidence I think. __________________ ~~^~<@Xera @>~^~~ "A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing." ~Erno Philips

11-25-2006, 12:27 AM	#45 (permalink)
Intense1 Crazy Location: Music City burbs	Stand up comedians must be immune to heckling if they want to succeed in their line of work - it's no different for Michael Richards than it is for any other comedian, just because he was on a popular sitcom. He's not Kramer anymore, he's Michael Richards, stand up comedian, and he has to earn laughs just like every other standup has done. Therefore, if he chooses to sabotage his career by shouting racial slurs to hecklers instead of overcoming the taunts of these same hecklers, then he will not be successful. This is the mark of a good comedian - the ability to deal with hecklers, and fire off the funny comments that will diffuse a heckler situation. And it doesn't matter how much PR Jerry Seinfeld does or Dave Letterman does, Michael Richards will not recover from this immense blunder. As for using the "N" word over and over again - we all know that it is only acceptable for black comedians to use this term in comedy, don't we? It is so much a part of our history here in America that those of us who are white and have black friends would NEVER ever call them the "N" word, even if they call themselves or their friends that. There is too much history behind the term for it to be any different. Michael Richards should not be sued - he has the right of free speech, just as every one of us has. But his career may well indeed suffer for it. And perhaps, that would be the best revenge. The right of free speech has a responsibility attached to it - a person is responsible for the things they say, and must bear the consequences of it. __________________ (none yet, still thinkin')

11-25-2006, 01:55 AM	#46 (permalink)
DaElf Tilted Location: Washington	The double standard is getting old. It's all ok or none of it's ok. If someone can say cracker or jew or whop or zipper head or whatever and it's ok; I can say nigger anyway I want and so can Richards. Any whining from the man suing Richards is a great display of hypocrisy. People calling Richards a racist on you tube is so funny. What's even more funny is these people calling him ignorant OH THE IRONY. __________________ I'm sitting at my desk right now waiting for you to reply to the above message.

11-25-2006, 07:32 AM	#48 (permalink)
Mister Coaster Big & Brassy Location: The "Canyon"	Great article. And the more I hear about the whole situation makes me beleive the whole thing was in fact staged. It's sad, really. What people will do to make a few bucks in DVD sales. __________________ If you have any poo... fling it NOW!

11-25-2006, 08:04 AM	#49 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I think it's a pretty unfortunate situation. I do believe in the sincerity of Richards' apology and his assertion that he just "flipped out." Then again, I always leave room for a little skepticism when it comes to celebrity "scandals." As to whether he should be sued, I don't think that question is relevant. People can sue anyone they want when they feel they have been wronged and deserve restitution. I don't have an opinion on that. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

11-23-2006, 05:31 PM	#41 (permalink)
dalnet22 Crazy	I just want to add that I can understand how Mr. Richards can make those comments and not be racist. If I'm trying to get back at a man for pissing me off on stage, I would use words that I know will hurt. The most hurtful words I know are of racist connotation. While I don't condone it, I totally believe when he says he not racist.

11-24-2006, 12:23 PM	#42 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	Richards (Kramer) probably remembers the Seinfeld episode where Jerry was heckled at the comedy club then went to the person's office to get even and heckle them at their job? If the comedy clubs try to censure racially offensive language I guess guys like Mencia, etc.. will have to get new joke writers.

11-25-2006, 11:57 AM	#51 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Absolutely, clearly Kramer lost his professionalism. I would like to see the original heckle that allegedly started the whole tirade response. But so far it appears that Kramer went overboard with some racial taunts and the audience responded and then Kramer went completely nuts and psycho. Ah, well, give a man enough rope......

11-25-2006, 07:52 PM	#54 (permalink)
Telluride Browncoat Location: California	I think it was racist, but I don't think he should be sued because of it. __________________ "I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek

11-25-2006, 08:04 PM	#55 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	To me, this is a non-issue. People do this sort of stupid shit all the time. Sure it's wrong. Sure it's tasteless and offensive. The fact that it was caught on video and broadcast to the world and the fact that he is someone moderately rich and famous are the only reason why this is even being talked about. I am choosing to not to give a damn. I think we waste too many brain cells being titillated by things that really don't matter. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-26-2006, 03:09 PM	#57 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Percy, if this were just about racism I would agree with you. This isn't about righting a wrong or looking at the underlying or even the surface causes of racism. All this is is more celebrity titillation. This whole event isn't much different from Lindsay Lohan getting caught on tape calling Paris Hilton a cunt. If I felt that taking Michael Richards to task was going to do anything to stop racism, I'd take the opportunity to discuss this. I just don't see it. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-27-2006, 07:11 AM	#60 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Thanks piglet. That's pretty much right. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-28-2006, 06:02 PM	#64 (permalink)
Miss Mango Psycho	Watching it, at first it does seem like hes trying to be funny, and its a part of his routine. (Im keeping in mind the fact that the video starts after he goes batty.) So I think they were waiting for the punchline or the end of the bit. They also might have been laughing because the hecklers won and he was driven off the stage. During his apology on Letterman, Jerry Seinfeld actually has to tell the audience to stop laughing. I think that might be the same thing - those members of the audience thought the apology was a skit of some sort or a joke. I use joke in two ways: it was meant to be funny or it was funny because he supposedly is apologetic, you know what I mean? He looks unhinged and kind of drugged (sedatives? narcotics? something else?) during that bizarre appearance. Hes all jittery and not making much sense. Talking about force fields and trailing off... And the backdrop looks like a jail or a mental hospital. (Purposefully setup that way, to visually insinuate this guy isnt in his right mind?) He definitely cracked up at some point and whether hes medicated in some way or not isnt the issue. Is he racist? Seems to be. Banned from the Laugh Factory? Good. Being sued? FOR CHRISTS SAKE! This isnt a legal matter. I wish people would stop filing lawsuits over things like this. Look, I think Michael Richards is talented. I think he is genuinely regretful, but thats probably because hes sullied his public image, to say the least. As for him being washed up - and Im talking pre-stand-up-breakdown - people said that about Julia Louis-Dreyfus (the Seinfeld curse thing) and she made a comeback. He might have been able to do the same. But he blew it with that blow out.

11-29-2006, 04:52 AM	#65 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	Jesse Jackson has chimed in now calling for a boycott of the DVDs that are being released. Jackson states that Kramer shouldn't make any money off of this. And yes Jackson said Kramer, not Richards. And I guess this means that Jerry, Elaine and George shouldn't get paid for the DVDs as well the way Jackson sees it. (I'd wager Seinfeld and Larry David are the only ones making any big money from it anyway). And this was after Richards went on Jackson's show to apologize so not only did Richards real name stick, Jackson must not have accepted the apology. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

11-30-2006, 04:47 PM	#67 (permalink)
fightnight Insane Location: The lovely Northeast	I just wanted to post this as an example of a way in which someone can properly deal with a heckler, and make a joke out of it, and not flip out at the crowd. This is from the Dane Cook CD, and there's a heckler you can audibly hear in the background and he replies with: "Shut up. Seriously. shut up. Shut your fucking mouth. Don't point back at me. I'll throw you out. SHUT up." Then the crowd gets awkwardly silent after that and Dane follows with: "....great vibe in here right now. Like daddy just hit mommy at the dinner table. (in voice of mother) Just eat, mommy's ok. Daddy just got a little angry. Just eat!" Anyways, I noticed above someone said that there is a good way to deal with hecklers and it brought this to mind.

12-01-2006, 10:24 AM	#68 (permalink)
Moskie Pure Chewing Satisfaction Location: can i use bbcode [i]here[/i]?	I heard that some leaders of the black community are calling for a ban on the N-word (am i allowed to say nigger?). This is a bad idea. All this controversy about a single word is doing something that no one wants: it's making the word more powerful. People who say that the word is so hateful and evil that it must never be said are engaging in a losing battle. You can't prevent people from saying a word. They can always use their lips to form the word, and it will be said. By getting enraged by its use, you're just handing a weapon on a silver platter to racists around the world who get their rocks off by pissing off black people. If Richards' rant pisses you off: ignore him. Don't let him on your TV shows to apologize. Don't let it get you angry. Just.... ignore it. That's the only way this problem will go away. __________________ Greetings and salutations.

12-01-2006, 11:44 AM	#71 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Well, so in a country of free speech they want to "ban" a word? And they will figure a way to make sure this word is banned, that no one in public will be able to say it. Then Kike, Mick, Dego, Spic, wetback, chink.... etc will all be banned..... then cunt and prick, bitch and bastard...... then they'll start in on other words and pretty soon names themselves will be wrong because from a name someone may make the wrong guess as to your heritage and offend you.... so then we'll just become numbers.... I believed we were a free country once..... damned if our own people decided to beg the government to take those freedoms away. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

12-10-2006, 02:49 PM	#72 (permalink)
izzzzy Crazy Location: SW NEW HAMPSHIRE	he aint no lenny bruce.