Driving in parking lots
Today hubby and I had to go to the bank and then grocery shopping and we were nearly hit by cars in both parking lots; the first time we were leaving the lot and a driver just pulling out of a space nearly hit us, the second time a driver trying to pull into the next lane of stalls nearly hit us...we were in the main thoroughfare both times.
I don't recall from drivers ed or rereading my driving manual to renew my license...are there rules to driving in parking lots? I guess I've always assumed that drivers in the main thoroughfares had right of way, and drivers in the parking stall lanes should wait for the drivers in the thoroughfares. Both times the drivers were driving like a bat out of hell...parking lots aren't freeways...speeding in them isn't too smart. Anyone know if there are rules about this, or should I just chalk both cases up to driver stupidity? |
There are certainly rules, but that doesn't rule out driver stupidty.
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Are there laws/rules? Where are they posted? I just looked over washington state's drivers handbook and it says nothing about how to drive in a parking lot. I have always thought parking lots were kind of grey areas, as they have no posted speed limits, no enforcement of traffic flow, etc. Seems like you will only run into trouble if you actually hit something.
Has anyone ever gotten a traffic ticket in a parking lot? Not talking about parking in a handicap. I mean for something like going against traffic flow, not signaling, stopping in the middle of the lane, etc I imagine if a cop saw you doing 60 in the parking lot, you might be up for some sort of reckless driving offense perhaps, but maybe not a speeding ticket as there are no posted speed limits.. Always wondered if there are laws but have never decided to test it out for myself.. :) |
Reckless endangerment?
Negligent operation of machinery? etc. |
ah yes but those fall in the grey area bucket....(see my 60mph example)
Where are the laws that dictate what I can and can't do in a parking lot in terms of traffic flow, yielding, etc? I'd actually love to learn them if they really do exist. Otherwise its a judgment thing, and we all know how good people's judgments are... :rolleyes: |
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I remember back when I was 16 reading in the new driver handbook saying that in parking lots, the driver that is getting out of a lot has the right of way. I keep thinking back to that information once in awhile and I always thought that didn't make a whole lot of sense. I must've read it wrong
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Parking lots are private property. Do driving laws have any jurisdiction? It would see like they do, cause of the whole handicap spaces, but you can drive 100 miles per hour down your driveway if you want. Is there really a difference between you and the strip mall owner?
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most accidents i see that are almost are in parking lots...people are so preoccupied with what they are about to buy
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I do know that someone pulling out of a parking space has to yield the right of way to any cars that are going down a lane, but that's all that really stuck with me.
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Im thinking back a long time to my one parking lot accident but if I recall correctly the cops can assign fault for an accident in their report for insurance purposes etc. but they can't ticket anyone because it is private property. Of course that may vary by state and or locality.
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Here's how it goes.
A business is required by law to enforce certain regulations. This is where handicap spaces come from. A business may also create and enforce rules and regulations in regards to the parking area, either in order to protect itself from liability or to operate in the interests of it's business and profitability. This is where posted speed limits in parking lots and tag/tow rules come from. Other than that, it's private property, to which the rules of the road do not apply. If two cars hit each other under any circumstances and the damage exceeds $1000 (here anyway; local regulations may vary) then a police report must be filed and insurance should be notified. This applies to private or public property and obviously the rules can be manipulated (such as waivers for demolition derbies). So short answer, there are no strict rules laid down in the lawbooks, anymore than there are rules to how you should drive in your driveway or how a farmer should drive in his fields. Common sense is the rule. Always go slow and use extra caution. You may be the safest/smartest driver on the road, but there's no accounting for the guy next to you. |
Martian is right about private property and the rules of the road, and most of it translates to the US. However, there's no $1,000 rule of thumb for police reports. Generally speaking, if you're in an accident and there's damage, call the police so that your insurance will respond.
I know from personal experience that the cops can ticket you if you blow through a posted stop sign on private property. I was in a car with a friend driving when he slowly rolled through a stop sign at a mall, and the cop lit us up. It was a $150 ticket, if I remember right. As far as pedestrians in parking lots, on private property they are given the absolute right-of-way. So if someone hits you while you're walking in a parking lot, they're absoltely at fault. The law views a parking lot as one big sidewalk and therefore to be deferred to under pretty much all circumstances. You can't be ticketed for jaywalking in a parking lot, but you can be ticketed for striking a pedestrian. |
Most of the parking lots and structures that I use on a regular basis have posted 5 or 15mph speed limits. But then again, I'm usually on my bike so I don't have a huge traveling radius. Might just be that this town has cautious property-owners. About who pulls out first - should be common sense. I think you just ran into a couple of all-out jerks.
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First of all, it's difficult in MOST jursidiction to get a ticket in a parking lot, however, local laws can make it easier. Also, in the first case, you were likely in the wrong (from the sound of it). It's generally considered correct to yield the right of way to a person backing out of a spot, regardless of how full the lot it, because it is MUCH easier for someone in the mainway to see someone backing out than the other way around. Always yield right of way to the person with the most (potnetially) obstructed view.
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silly rabbit ...parking lots are for autocross racing, not parking. We just let you park there when we're not racing.
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In my state (and I assume most others), there is a maximum speed for all non-highway driving. It happens to be 55, but obviously might be different in your area. Thus, you could be ticketed for going 60 through a parking lot, as it violates the state speed limit. Residential property is likely a different issue, but you can't speed through someone else's parking lot.
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Did you read the above posts?
Parking lots are private property. |
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Now, if you're talking about all the parking lots you own, that's a different story: you can consent to having autocrosses in your own parking lots, e.g. |
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Medusa, I'm sorry to hear that some idiots almost hit you and your husband. Your assumptions about parking lot conduct make plenty of sense to me. Just like in the street - if you're parked on a street and you want to join traffic, you have to wait until it's all clear because the cars that are already moving have the right of way. Of course, that is just common sense and a lot of people are jack-asses. |
Um, okay. That totally doesn't make sense to me at all. Are you saying private property /= private property just because it's not mine?
Anyway, I just looked in both the Florida State Statutes and the Florida Driver's Handbook, and both of them specifically say nothing about speed limits on private property, so I think you're wrong. But then again it may be different from state to state. I looked the laws up in my state, yall should do it in yours. The laws are all online. |
Sounds like this really is a grey area, in that different loose standards (yet to see any proof of really defined parking lot traffic laws) are defined on a state-by-state basis...
Supple and a few others have given some examples in drivers handbooks for certain states, others can't find any for their states. I guess the main thing to remember is... 10 points for old ladies and people in wheelchairs!! haha jk :D |
http://www.photopost.com/photopost/d...00signpost.jpg
http://www.badmovies.de/graph2/deathrace4.jpg When I'm driving in parking lots, pedestrians better stand the fuck by. I treat that shit just like Death Race 2000. |
Oregon driving law specifically states that if you commit a serious traffic offense, it doesn't matter if you're on public or private property--you will be ticketed. This applies to DUIIs, reckless driving, etc. So even parking lots, despite being private property, are not beyond the reach of the law.
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In fact isn't it usually the case that in an accident of that nature, the person backing up is held at fault by insurance companies/police?
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Ya, what some people above said. There are general rules that apply everywhere that cops can get you for, regardless if it's private property (so long as they have resonable cause to be there, or can see it from outside of the private property line). Here you can also be ticketed for driving through a parking lot to get by red lights.
Also, private property is really not so much your property (as in you will always own it no matter what), the government can make up reasons to take it away if they want, so of course the law would still apply. Private property does not equal your own country. |
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Thanks for the replies...never considered it was private property and it seems to be a big grey area! |
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If you hit someone on private property, the insurance companies are going to fight over it, and the police won't get involved unless you call them. That's not a very bad idea, especially if you think that someone could conceivably think you're at fault. |
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Thats the way it was when I got hit. I was in the 2nd or 3rd space and the guy that hit me literally had his tires screeching as he came around the corner but since i was the one pulling out the cop wrote it up as my fault. |
I reckon
a) one should drive at walking speed, except during morning rush hour (city car parks are different anyways I reckon, to suburban ones) b) just because you're in a car park doesn't mean you can leave your lane c) let people out/in of the parking spot, if it appears that no other gap in traffic is available. (and if the driver looks competent, for example their head is higher than their steering wheel). d) cars that slow down on the corners, in a multi-storey carpark are likely to take 3-10 forward/reverse movements to park. Go around them or find an alternate route. Never use a supermarket car park in the period between school close and business hour close. If you do, you will be amazed at the chaos, the forwarding and reversing, and the general gridlock. During these times - park on the opposite side of the road and save fifteen minutes of frustration by walking a few extra metres. |
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Also...the car in the thoroughfare has the right of way...period. Ex-cop talking here. It doesn't matter how many tanks are blocking your view, you are still responsible for insuring that the way is clear before backing/pulling into the traffic ways. No excuses...it is your responsibility...period. If I only had a dollar for every fender bender that I had to respond to, because a driver thought that he/she had the right of way because "traffic always stops to let me out". :rolleyes: Well...yeah...usually because the other driver wants the space that you're in. 99.999% of all parking lot accidents are caused by a lack of either common sense...or common courtesy. Nothing more difficult than that. |
People are very stupid. And if you live in south florida, then that rule applies even more. People get behind the wheel and think wow I can drive however I want. i don't have insurance anyway. If I hit somebody oh well I can just run. They are going to deport me anyway. I hate south Florida. Anyway I hear you about the driving and yes Parking lots have rules but most are considered private property and common sense should prevail, but as we know common sense is not very common.
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I have worked as a valet at two of the major malls here in my city and from experience I can say that no driving law is enforced (speed limits, stop signs, whatever). However if there is an accident whoever it was that breaking more laws (or posted laws) will be blamed for the accident. A person, if he/she is driving through the main throughfare more than likely wont be blamed for the accident. Parking lots are private property so cops can't really do much and if the parking lot has security they really can't give you a ticket (in most cases) unless they've got a boot, but that's a completely different story.
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Ha ha. It's bad where I'm from too. People zig-zag through parking lots without looking at all. My dad owns a very successful automotive repair shop and he calls parking lots "Bip Zones" because of the massive amount of vehicles he repairs due to parking lots. I'm pretty sure if you're driving through the parking lot down the signaled path and some idiot hits you that is zig-zagging through, the cop that responds isn't gonna have mercy just because there's no official law of it. A parking lot may not be officially mentioned in the DMV manuals but that doesn't mean you can go Mad Max in a parking lot and not face the consequences.
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i forget what its called....but i was a security guard in college and they did that where i worked so the police could write tickets |
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Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule. Some people don't like backing in because it takes more time and you don't want the jackass behind you to take the spot(they usually won't, except on Seinfeld). But I say that little extra time saves you a lot of potential hardship later. |
People can really be a crazy bunch. It's disturbing sometimes how bad people drive and/or how little attention they pay.
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