North Korea may have just tested its first nuclear bomb - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

09-11-2004, 08:21 PM

Quote:

'Major blast' hits North Korea

Sunday, September 12, 2004 Posted: 0320 GMT (1120 HKT)

SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- A large explosion occurred in the northern part of North Korea on an important anniversary of the communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday.

The Yonhap news agency, citing an unidentified source in Beijing, said the explosion happened Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China. The explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county blasted a crater big enough to be noticed by a satellite, the source said.

North Korea was founded Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.

Experts have speculated that North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, though there was no immediate indication that Thursday's reported explosion was linked to Pyongyang's efforts to develop nuclear weapons.

That effort has led to six-nation talks aimed at persuading North Korea to abandon its atomic weapons programs.

On April 22, train wagons at a railway station exploded in the North Korean town of Ryongchon, killing 160 people and injuring an estimated 1,300, according to some estimates. The blast was believed to have been sparked by a train laden with oil and chemicals that hit power lines.

The source in the Yonhap report said Thursday's explosion reportedly was bigger than the train explosion.

Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

This is the reported place of explosion, on the border of China and North Korea.

Updates:

Earthquake seismometers seem to have not picked up the blast.
South Korean minister says blast probably not atomic.

Update 1:57am EST:
Link

Quote:

From the South Korean news agency Yonhap:
(LEAD) Mushroom Cloud Spotted at North Korean Border: Sources

(ATTN: ADDS details of Seoul source comment in 4th para, unification minister's comment in 5th para, COMBINES previous dispatch from Beijing and background from 6th para)
SEOUL, Sept. 12 (Yonhap) -- A reliable source in Seoul's
diplomatic community said Sunday that a mushroom cloud with a radius of 3.5 to 4 kilometers was spotted, along with a massive explosion, in Kimhyongjik County in North Korea's northernmost inland province of Yanggang on Sept. 9.

"The Sept. 9 explosion occurred at around 11 a.m.," the source said. "But it is not clear yet whether the explosion is related to an intentional nuclear experiment or a simple accident."

<u><b>He noted that the site of the explosion and mushroom cloud is not far from the North's Daepodong missile base.</b></u>

Another source in Seoul said that the radius of the mushroom cloud was between 3.2 kilometers and 3.5 kilometers.

Unification Minister Chung Dong-young said the government is trying to confirm whether or not a huge explosion occurred in North Korea. He said he was not aware of the scale of the blast and played down the possibility of a North Korean nuclear weapons test.

Earlier in the day, a reliable source in Beijing also said a large explosion occurred in the province of Yanggang on Sept. 9.

Sept. 9 was the 56th anniversary of the North's founding and the country's government had organized various arts performances and sporting events that included a pledge of loyalty to leader Kim Jong-il.

The Chinese source said the explosion took place in Kimhyongjik County, near the Chinese border, saying it was probably bigger than the explosion that largely destroyed another North Korean border town, Ryongchon, on April 22.

"The explosion was reportedly bigger than the one in Ryongchon," the Beijing source said. "The United States has also shown strong interest in the Sept. 9 explosion after spotting its traces by satellite. Washington also seems to suspect that the explosion was possibly related to a nuclear experiment."
On Sept. 2, Rep. Park Jin of the main opposition Grand National Party said during his U.S. visit that North Korea may conduct a nuclear weapons test in October, one month ahead of the U.S.

presidential election.

The possibility of a North Korean nuclear test was reportedly
first mentioned by a high-ranking U.S. administration official to
a senior American journalist in late August and the U.S. conveyed its concerns to North Korean officials in Washington.

At that time, Park said he heard the rumor of the possible nuclear test from officials of the Wall Street Journal and confirmed the "October surprise" with U.S. officials.

(END)

For those that don't know, North Korea has developed an ICBM engine known as the Daepodong-2 (alternately Taep'o-Dong-2), capable of hitting the eastern seaboard of the United States. However, it has lousy navigation and probably would not be able to reach that far.

pan6467 · 09-11-2004, 08:25 PM

Very scary. I just wonder how close it was to the China border and how China is reacting, I am sure they are not happy if it were real close.

I am also sure that the Japanese are reacting poorly to this also.

The world continues to become a scarier place to live.

Journeyman · 09-11-2004, 08:31 PM

I'd base my guess off the population of the area surrounding the blast. If it was populated, would they really test nukes there? It might be some form of accident in an industrial area. If it was not populated, what would have caused it beside a nuke?

Ustwo · 09-11-2004, 08:31 PM

I am sure glad Jimmy Carter fixed everything for us over there in '94.

I for one welcome our new North Korean Overlords.

(I will await more conformation first though)

Irishsean · 09-11-2004, 08:34 PM

Hmmm, haven't seen anything on this in any major news distributions yet, i'll go look...

pan6467 · 09-11-2004, 08:42 PM

It's being reported on Yahoo as an AP story.

Lebell · 09-11-2004, 09:02 PM

Reuters also has it.

irateplatypus · 09-11-2004, 09:33 PM

i'm still waiting for more widespread confirmation and some more details. if it is a nuke... well, i guess i'm still hoping it isn't.

Stare At The Sun · 09-11-2004, 09:34 PM

Just in time for reelection, a new enemy to fight! Or, maybe a big coincidence, *shrugs* I am worried though.

Ustwo · 09-11-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stare At The Sun

Just in time for reelection, a new enemy to fight! Or, maybe a big coincidence, *shrugs* I am worried though.

New? They are already on the list

Kim Jong Il has endorsed Kerry btw (no joke).

Ironicly of course this would help Bush.

Rekna · 09-11-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I am sure glad Jimmy Carter fixed everything for us over there in '94.

I for one welcome our new North Korean Overlords.

(I will await more conformation first though)

and good thing Bush went after the man with a few decrepit scuds instead!

skyscan · 09-11-2004, 10:05 PM

Yahoo story

Quote:

Thursday was the anniversary of the 1948 foundation of the communist regime. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.

five paragraphs later.

Quote:

North Korea was founded on Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the anniversary to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.

They revised the article.
This

Quote:

Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N. Korea
51 minutes ago
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer
...sending a huge mushroom cloud into the air on an important anniversary of the communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday.

Turned into this:

Quote:

Blast, Mushroom Cloud Reported in N. Korea
25 minutes ago
By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer
...sending a huge column of smoke into the air on an important anniversary of the communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday.

Time changed but the bulk of the article is the same.

Please tell me it's someone's job to read the articles. I blame the internet and the person who made cut and paste.

This needs to be addressed and soon (the "huge column/mushroom cloud of smoke"). Also, when I read this I turned on Fox News. They spent about ten seconds on the story(not trying to point fingers at one group just happened to be watching). Please tell me people care about countries launching possible nukes. In these times, if someone launches a nuke at someone else, we might as well tip our hat to humanity.

bob1029 · 09-11-2004, 10:37 PM

I also saw that Fox News report...10 seconds about possible nuclear test... very sad. *begin rant* Maybe someone needs to re-educate the world on just how powerful nuclear weapons are. I think we have all become desensitized with this loose way of referring to them in the same group as chemical and biological weapons. They just dont fit in the same group. Sure, a chemical weapon could take a decent chunk out of a densly populated area, but a multi-megaton thermonuclear device could turn an entire downtown city area into a crater, and vaporize all of its suburbs, as well as disrupt communications nationwide. *end rant*

On a side note: If a REAL nuclear test occured on Thursday, wouldnt we have known about it before these reports? There are navstar sattelites with sensors dedicated to detecting open-air nuclear detonations (USNDS). Even if these cant cover the entire world, you would think we would be focusing detection resources on N. Korea due to their advancing atomic weapons programs.

Ustwo · 09-11-2004, 11:06 PM

People, people.

We have an UNCONFIRMED report. Hell I think this might be the first time Fox didn't spend 4 hours on a new story.

If any station would give this play if it turns out to be true it would be fox news.

oh and ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rekna

and good thing Bush went after the man with a few decrepit scuds instead!

Despite the little issue of China, I'm sure if we invaded N.K. Instead of Iraq the same people would be saying 'What about Saddam Hussain!'

Journeyman · 09-11-2004, 11:46 PM

Well, in this case if the president had stated, at the State of the Union, that NK was seeking nukes... he would not have been lying/wrong (lying and wrong being about the same to a thousand dead soldiers).

ForgottenKnight · 09-12-2004, 12:01 AM

Scary...

...just makes me once again wonder, "what has this world come to?"...

...it also helps to modivate me to achieve my goal of getting off of this rock called Earth and colonizing Mars...

shipofshame · 09-12-2004, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForgottenKnight

...it also helps to modivate me to achieve my goal of getting off of this rock called Earth and colonizing Mars...

Yay, more toys to blow up!

whocarz · 09-12-2004, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Journeyman

Well, in this case if the president had stated, at the State of the Union, that NK was seeking nukes... he would not have been lying/wrong (lying and wrong being about the same to a thousand dead soldiers).

If we invaded North Korea, there would be a lot more than a thousand dead US soldiers.

skyscan · 09-12-2004, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocarz

If we invaded North Korea, there would be a lot more than a thousand dead US soldiers.

True.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForgottenKnight

...it also helps to modivate me to achieve my goal of getting off of this rock called Earth and colonizing Mars...

Sign me up.

pedro padilla · 09-12-2004, 12:30 AM

good thing we went after those dangerous iraqis. and those talibans with the sticks and stones. i really like the kim endorsement of kerry helping bush. we dont need no steenking diplomacy. lets go to war with a true psychopath that has at least 4 bombs with the missiles capable of reaching.....?

Flyguy · 09-12-2004, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I am sure glad Jimmy Carter fixed everything for us over there in '94.

I for one welcome our new North Korean Overlords.

(I will await more conformation first though)

And I'm sure glad that Bush is paying as much attention to this real threat than the threats in the desert that he conjured up in that rodeo brain of his.

Flyguy · 09-12-2004, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyscan

True.

Sign me up.

Sign me up too.

MSD · 09-12-2004, 03:30 AM

US officials say that it may be due to a forest fire. This would fit well with the report that no seismic activity was recorded.

Quote:

SEOUL, South Korea (CNN) -- A large cloud that appeared over North Korea in satellite images several days ago was not the result of a nuclear explosion, according to a U.S. official.

South Korea's Yonhap news agency is reporting a huge explosion shook North Korea's northernmost province on Thursday producing a mushroom cloud over 4 kilometers (two miles) wide.

The blast coincided with the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sepember 9 when various military activities are staged.

The U.S. official said the cloud could be the result of a forest fire.

South Korea's Unification Minister Chung Dong-yong said the government was aware of the reports and is checking them.

"I have no information about the size of the damage of the explosion," he said on Sunday, according to Yonhap.

Chung also said he believed there was no correlation between the explosion and reports of North Korea preparing for a possible nuclear test.

The New York Times reported on Saturday that U.S. President George W. Bush and his top advisers recently received intelligence reports that could indicate North Korea is preparing its first nuclear test, citing senior officials with access to the intelligence.

John Irvine, a reporter for Britain's ITN TV who is in Pyongyang, said there has been no official response from the North Korean government, although there is pressure to provide an explanation.

"I'm touring outside Pyongyang, the North Korean capital, right now with the British Junior Foreign Minister Bill Rammell, who has just told me that he is demanding a response from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs here in North Korea," Irvine reported Sunday.

"[Rammell] does have a meeting with a senior foreign minister here tomorrow and Mr. Fammell anticipates some answers at least by then."

Yonhap reported the explosion happened in Yanggang province along the Chinese border, the site of Yongjori Missile Base -- a large facility with an underground missile firing range.

According to data gathered by Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI), Yongjori is a suspected site for North Korea's uranium enrichment program.

According to its Web site, NTI is a private charity -- funded by CNN founder Ted Turner -- dedicated to lessen the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction -- nuclear, chemical and biological -- around the globe.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc...ast/index.html

Bill O'Rights · 09-12-2004, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

People, people.

We have an UNCONFIRMED report.

Ok...for the third time, in a little under one week, I've been in the tenuous position of agreeing with Ustwo. How disturbing, indeed, to find him the voice of reason.

Quote:

Associated Press
Although North Korea is believed to be developing nuclear weapons, international experts would likely have been able to detect the test if one had occurred several days ago.

"We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5- to 4-kilometer (2.2 miles to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," the source in Seoul told Yonhap. Yonhap described the source as "reliable."

Thursday was the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.

Experts have speculated that North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, but one analyst said an open test, as opposed to one below ground, would be hard in such a small country.

"It's difficult to say, but it won't be easy for North Korea to conduct a nuclear test without resulting in massive losses of its own people," said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert in Seoul. "I think there is a more possibility that it is a simple accident, rather than a deliberate nuclear test."

Yonhap's diplomatic source in Seoul said the explosion took place "not far" from a military base that holds ballistic missiles. North Korea, which has a large missile arsenal and more than a million soldiers, is dotted with military installations.

The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, a source in Beijing told Yonhap.

After a National Security Council meeting, South Korea's Unification Minister Chung Dong-young said the government was trying to confirm the report about the explosion. Asked about the possibility of a nuclear test, he said:

"I believe some foreign media made such reports. However, currently, we believe that it is not related to such reports

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

oh and ...

Despite the little issue of China, I'm sure if we invaded N.K. Instead of Iraq the same people would be saying 'What about Saddam Hussain!'

Thank you, Ustwo, for restoring a little ballance into my world.

You were beginning to scare me there for awhile.

Ustwo · 09-12-2004, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill O'Rights

Ok...for the third time, in a little under one week, I've been in the tenuous position of agreeing with Ustwo. How disturbing, indeed, to find him the voice of reason.

Soon you will be goose stepping in no time!

Quote:

Thank you, Ustwo, for restoring a little ballance into my world.

You were biginning to scare me there for awhile.

Actually you know I am right on that one too

Stompy · 09-12-2004, 06:41 AM

Even if it was a nuke test, it's not like they're gonna use em on us...

...or does the concept of MAD not ring a bell to them?

irateplatypus · 09-12-2004, 07:49 AM

if they has nukes it wouldn't be a MAD scenario.

1) they would almost certainly be primitive (compared to ours anyway) and relatively low yield weapons. lots of destructive power, but not enough for MAD.

2) as their program would be very young, they would have few of them.

3) they lack a sufficient delivery mechanism for delivering over the Pacific.

Lebell · 09-12-2004, 07:52 AM

Ah, No seismic == no nuke.

Strange Famous · 09-12-2004, 08:07 AM

If America, Britain, France, Israel, South Africa, Russia, India, Pakistan... etc etc can have nuclear weapons, why shouldnt Korea? The whole concept of non-proliferation always seemed the most incredible example of hypocrisy to me. How dare the nations who nuclear arms sit there and say "well, now that we have our weapons, nobody else needs any, and we must work tirelessly to stop them having an equal level of arms as us"

Seaver · 09-12-2004, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Ah, No seismic == no nuke

Bah you beat me to it. That's how we used to gague the strength of Russian nukes, we got REALLY good at using the waves at locations around the earth to seeing how strong they are. Even the backpack bombs would have a seismic fingerprint. This is just a very very large bomb (daisycutter-esque) in which Kim is using to convince his people that even though they starve in the millions they're still better under his government than the capitalist one accross the way.

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-12-2004, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

If America, Britain, France, Israel, South Africa, Russia, India, Pakistan... etc etc can have nuclear weapons, why shouldnt Korea? The whole concept of non-proliferation always seemed the most incredible example of hypocrisy to me. How dare the nations who nuclear arms sit there and say "well, now that we have our weapons, nobody else needs any, and we must work tirelessly to stop them having an equal level of arms as us"

Might be hypocritical, but the fact is they signed the treaty. Also with a maniac at the helm, I don't think a "fair-is-fair" attitude has an oz. of merit.

rukkyg · 09-12-2004, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei

Also with a maniac at the helm...

Erm... *cough*.

irateplatypus · 09-12-2004, 08:52 AM

i'm willing to trade hypocrisy for fewer nukes in the world. if its hypocrisy to say "i have them, but i sure as hell don't want YOU to have them" then i am indeed a hypocrite in this situation.

Mojo_PeiPei · 09-12-2004, 08:53 AM

Yeah, Bush is definitely comparable to Kim Jong Ill...

09-12-2004, 08:57 AM

Update:
Seismographic data from September 9th, the day the "bomb" went off.

Note that this following seismograph has a small jump at the same time as the one above, approximately 8:10 in Pyongyang and 16:10 in Universal Time
http://photon.physics.hmc.edu/research/geo/day3_4.gif

This was plotted in Canada, at the same time as the others.
http://]http://www.seismo.nrcan.gc.c...0912150000.gif

pan6467 · 09-12-2004, 09:14 AM

Powell Says N. Korea Blast Not Nuclear

2 hours, 15 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer

SEOUL, South Korea - A huge explosion in the northern part of North Korea (news - web sites) sent a plume of smoke more than two miles wide into the air on an important anniversary of the secretive communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday. Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said the explosion Thursday was not a nuclear test but that it was not known yet what caused it.

"There was no indication that was a nuclear event of any kind. Exactly what it was, we're not sure," Powell said on ABC's "This Week."

China's government, which has the closest relations with North Korea, had no immediate comment about the reported explosion.

The Yonhap news agency said the blast Thursday was more powerful than the April 22 explosion that killed 160 people and injured an estimated 1,300 at a railway station in North Korea. That explosion was believed caused by a train laden with oil and chemicals hitting power lines.

In a story published before Yonhap's report, The New York Times said Sunday that senior U.S. intelligence officials had seen signs of activities that some analysts thought might indicate North Korea was preparing its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon.

Other experts were more cautious in their assessments, but the developments were considered worrisome enough for the White House to be alerted, the Times said.

Asked about the report, Powell told "Fox News Sunday" that U.S. authorities have been monitoring activities at a "potential nuclear test site."

"We can't tell whether it's normal maintenance activity or something more," he said. "So it's inconclusive at this moment, but we continue to monitor these things very carefully."

With North Korea being closely watched because of its suspected work to develop nuclear weapons, international experts would likely have been able to detect a nuclear test explosion if one had occurred several days ago.

The explosion happened at 11 a.m. Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China, Yonhap said.

"We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5 to 4 kilometers (2.1 to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," the news agency quoted an unidentified diplomatic source in Seoul, the South Korean capital, as saying.

Yonhap quoted an unidentified South Korean official as saying seismic activity related to two blasts in North Korea occurred at 11 p.m. Wednesday and 1 a.m. Thursday.

The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, Yonhap quoted an unidentified source in Beijing as saying.

The agency said the diplomatic source raised the possibility of a nuclear text blast or an accidental explosion. It quoted a source in Washington as saying the incident could be related to a natural disaster such as a forest fire.

Yonhap later quoted Kim Jong-min, spokesman for the South Korean presidential office, as saying: "Currently, we are trying to find out in detail the exact character, cause and size of the accident, but we don't think North Korea conducted a nuclear test."

Thursday was the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population.

Experts have speculated North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, but one analyst said an open-air test, as opposed to one below ground, would be difficult in such a small country.

"It's difficult to say, but it won't be easy for North Korea to conduct a nuclear test without resulting in massive losses of its own people," said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert in Seoul. "I think there is a (greater) possibility that it is a simple accident, rather than a deliberate nuclear test."

Yonhap's diplomatic source in Seoul said the explosion took place "not far" from a military base that holds ballistic missiles. North Korea, which has a large missile arsenal and more than 1 million soldiers, is dotted with military installations.

Kim Jong Il on Sunday met Li Changchun, a senior official of China's Communist Party who was on a goodwill visit to Pyongyang, said KCNA, the North's official news agency. Li delivered a letter from Chinese President Hu Jintao, KCNA said.

KCNA did not mention the reported explosion. China had said that the agenda for Li's talks would include North Korea's nuclear development.

On Saturday, North Korea said recent revelations that South Korea (news - web sites) conducted secret nuclear experiments involving uranium and plutonium made the communist state more determined to pursue its own nuclear programs.

The South Korean experiments, conducted in 1982 and 2000, were likely to further complicate the already stalled six-nation talks aimed at dismantling North Korea's nuclear development. South Korea has said the experiments were purely for research and did not reflect a desire to develop weapons.

Who knows? But it appears those who sustained a "wait and see" attitude may have been correct.

Still scary to think how easily we can believe the worst.

anleja · 09-12-2004, 09:29 AM

Nice. I came here to see if anyone has posted about this Iran/Russia Nuclear Agenda and I see this instead. Some days I don't know if I should run or just stay in bed.

james t kirk · 09-12-2004, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

if they has nukes it wouldn't be a MAD scenario.

1) they would almost certainly be primitive (compared to ours anyway) and relatively low yield weapons. lots of destructive power, but not enough for MAD.

2) as their program would be very young, they would have few of them.

3) they lack a sufficient delivery mechanism for delivering over the Pacific.

Just give them some time.

I rember the Hyundai Pony in 1990.

Look at Hyundai now.

09-11-2004, 08:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Very scary. I just wonder how close it was to the China border and how China is reacting, I am sure they are not happy if it were real close. I am also sure that the Japanese are reacting poorly to this also. The world continues to become a scarier place to live. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

09-11-2004, 08:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I am sure glad Jimmy Carter fixed everything for us over there in '94. I for one welcome our new North Korean Overlords. (I will await more conformation first though) __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-11-2004, 08:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	It's being reported on Yahoo as an AP story. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

09-11-2004, 09:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Reuters also has it. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-11-2004, 09:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i'm still waiting for more widespread confirmation and some more details. if it is a nuke... well, i guess i'm still hoping it isn't. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-11-2004, 08:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
Journeyman Like John Goodman, but not. Location: SFBA, California	I'd base my guess off the population of the area surrounding the blast. If it was populated, would they really test nukes there? It might be some form of accident in an industrial area. If it was not populated, what would have caused it beside a nuke?

09-11-2004, 08:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
Irishsean edited for content Location: Austin, TX	Hmmm, haven't seen anything on this in any major news distributions yet, i'll go look...

09-11-2004, 09:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
Stare At The Sun Eh? Location: Somewhere over the rainbow	Just in time for reelection, a new enemy to fight! Or, maybe a big coincidence, shrugs I am worried though.

09-11-2004, 10:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
bob1029 Upright	I also saw that Fox News report...10 seconds about possible nuclear test... very sad. begin rant Maybe someone needs to re-educate the world on just how powerful nuclear weapons are. I think we have all become desensitized with this loose way of referring to them in the same group as chemical and biological weapons. They just dont fit in the same group. Sure, a chemical weapon could take a decent chunk out of a densly populated area, but a multi-megaton thermonuclear device could turn an entire downtown city area into a crater, and vaporize all of its suburbs, as well as disrupt communications nationwide. end rant On a side note: If a REAL nuclear test occured on Thursday, wouldnt we have known about it before these reports? There are navstar sattelites with sensors dedicated to detecting open-air nuclear detonations (USNDS). Even if these cant cover the entire world, you would think we would be focusing detection resources on N. Korea due to their advancing atomic weapons programs.

09-11-2004, 11:46 PM	#15 (permalink)
Journeyman Like John Goodman, but not. Location: SFBA, California	Well, in this case if the president had stated, at the State of the Union, that NK was seeking nukes... he would not have been lying/wrong (lying and wrong being about the same to a thousand dead soldiers).

09-12-2004, 12:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
ForgottenKnight Jesus Freak Location: Following the light...	Scary... ...just makes me once again wonder, "what has this world come to?"... ...it also helps to modivate me to achieve my goal of getting off of this rock called Earth and colonizing Mars... __________________ "People say I'm strange, does that make me a stranger?"

09-12-2004, 12:30 AM	#20 (permalink)
pedro padilla Insane	good thing we went after those dangerous iraqis. and those talibans with the sticks and stones. i really like the kim endorsement of kerry helping bush. we dont need no steenking diplomacy. lets go to war with a true psychopath that has at least 4 bombs with the missiles capable of reaching.....?

09-12-2004, 06:41 AM	#26 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Even if it was a nuke test, it's not like they're gonna use em on us... ...or does the concept of MAD not ring a bell to them? __________________ I love lamp.

09-12-2004, 07:49 AM	#27 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	if they has nukes it wouldn't be a MAD scenario. 1) they would almost certainly be primitive (compared to ours anyway) and relatively low yield weapons. lots of destructive power, but not enough for MAD. 2) as their program would be very young, they would have few of them. 3) they lack a sufficient delivery mechanism for delivering over the Pacific. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-12-2004, 07:52 AM	#28 (permalink)
Lebell Cracking the Whip Location: Sexymama's arms...	Ah, No seismic == no nuke. __________________ "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate!

09-12-2004, 08:07 AM	#29 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	If America, Britain, France, Israel, South Africa, Russia, India, Pakistan... etc etc can have nuclear weapons, why shouldnt Korea? The whole concept of non-proliferation always seemed the most incredible example of hypocrisy to me. How dare the nations who nuclear arms sit there and say "well, now that we have our weapons, nobody else needs any, and we must work tirelessly to stop them having an equal level of arms as us" __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

09-12-2004, 08:52 AM	#33 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i'm willing to trade hypocrisy for fewer nukes in the world. if its hypocrisy to say "i have them, but i sure as hell don't want YOU to have them" then i am indeed a hypocrite in this situation. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

09-12-2004, 08:53 AM	#34 (permalink)
Mojo_PeiPei Kiss of Death Location: Perpetual wind and sorrow	Yeah, Bush is definitely comparable to Kim Jong Ill... __________________ To win a war you must serve no master but your ambition.

09-12-2004, 08:57 AM	#35 (permalink)
jconnolly Guest	Update: Seismographic data from September 9th, the day the "bomb" went off. Note that this following seismograph has a small jump at the same time as the one above, approximately 8:10 in Pyongyang and 16:10 in Universal Time http://photon.physics.hmc.edu/research/geo/day3_4.gif This was plotted in Canada, at the same time as the others. http://]http://www.seismo.nrcan.gc.c...0912150000.gif Last edited by jconnolly; 09-12-2004 at 09:05 AM..

09-12-2004, 09:14 AM	#36 (permalink)
pan6467 Lennonite Priest Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA	Powell Says N. Korea Blast Not Nuclear 2 hours, 15 minutes ago Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo! By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA, Associated Press Writer SEOUL, South Korea - A huge explosion in the northern part of North Korea (news - web sites) sent a plume of smoke more than two miles wide into the air on an important anniversary of the secretive communist regime, a South Korean news agency reported Sunday. Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said the explosion Thursday was not a nuclear test but that it was not known yet what caused it. "There was no indication that was a nuclear event of any kind. Exactly what it was, we're not sure," Powell said on ABC's "This Week." China's government, which has the closest relations with North Korea, had no immediate comment about the reported explosion. The Yonhap news agency said the blast Thursday was more powerful than the April 22 explosion that killed 160 people and injured an estimated 1,300 at a railway station in North Korea. That explosion was believed caused by a train laden with oil and chemicals hitting power lines. In a story published before Yonhap's report, The New York Times said Sunday that senior U.S. intelligence officials had seen signs of activities that some analysts thought might indicate North Korea was preparing its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon. Other experts were more cautious in their assessments, but the developments were considered worrisome enough for the White House to be alerted, the Times said. Asked about the report, Powell told "Fox News Sunday" that U.S. authorities have been monitoring activities at a "potential nuclear test site." "We can't tell whether it's normal maintenance activity or something more," he said. "So it's inconclusive at this moment, but we continue to monitor these things very carefully." With North Korea being closely watched because of its suspected work to develop nuclear weapons, international experts would likely have been able to detect a nuclear test explosion if one had occurred several days ago. The explosion happened at 11 a.m. Thursday in Yanggang province near the border with China, Yonhap said. "We understand that a mushroom-shaped cloud about 3.5 to 4 kilometers (2.1 to 2.5 miles) in diameter was monitored during the explosion," the news agency quoted an unidentified diplomatic source in Seoul, the South Korean capital, as saying. Yonhap quoted an unidentified South Korean official as saying seismic activity related to two blasts in North Korea occurred at 11 p.m. Wednesday and 1 a.m. Thursday. The damage and crater left by the explosion in Kim Hyong Jik county was big enough to be noticed by a satellite, Yonhap quoted an unidentified source in Beijing as saying. The agency said the diplomatic source raised the possibility of a nuclear text blast or an accidental explosion. It quoted a source in Washington as saying the incident could be related to a natural disaster such as a forest fire. Yonhap later quoted Kim Jong-min, spokesman for the South Korean presidential office, as saying: "Currently, we are trying to find out in detail the exact character, cause and size of the accident, but we don't think North Korea conducted a nuclear test." Thursday was the anniversary of North Korea's founding on Sept. 9, 1948. Leader Kim Jong Il uses the occasion to stage performances and other events to bolster loyalty among the impoverished North Korean population. Experts have speculated North Korea might use a major anniversary to conduct a nuclear-related test, but one analyst said an open-air test, as opposed to one below ground, would be difficult in such a small country. "It's difficult to say, but it won't be easy for North Korea to conduct a nuclear test without resulting in massive losses of its own people," said Koh Yu-hwan, a North Korea expert in Seoul. "I think there is a (greater) possibility that it is a simple accident, rather than a deliberate nuclear test." Yonhap's diplomatic source in Seoul said the explosion took place "not far" from a military base that holds ballistic missiles. North Korea, which has a large missile arsenal and more than 1 million soldiers, is dotted with military installations. Kim Jong Il on Sunday met Li Changchun, a senior official of China's Communist Party who was on a goodwill visit to Pyongyang, said KCNA, the North's official news agency. Li delivered a letter from Chinese President Hu Jintao, KCNA said. KCNA did not mention the reported explosion. China had said that the agenda for Li's talks would include North Korea's nuclear development. On Saturday, North Korea said recent revelations that South Korea (news - web sites) conducted secret nuclear experiments involving uranium and plutonium made the communist state more determined to pursue its own nuclear programs. The South Korean experiments, conducted in 1982 and 2000, were likely to further complicate the already stalled six-nation talks aimed at dismantling North Korea's nuclear development. South Korea has said the experiments were purely for research and did not reflect a desire to develop weapons. Who knows? But it appears those who sustained a "wait and see" attitude may have been correct. Still scary to think how easily we can believe the worst. __________________ I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

09-12-2004, 09:29 AM	#37 (permalink)
anleja disconnected Location: ignoreland	Nice. I came here to see if anyone has posted about this Iran/Russia Nuclear Agenda and I see this instead. Some days I don't know if I should run or just stay in bed.