Food the service industry, "if you dont like it then..."

I thought about answering this in a couple of way, but I am just going to answer your question without getting into an argument about it now.

Since 14 I have never not had a job (PT when I was at school obviously). Before I got my first (and only so far) full time permanent job, I worked all kinds of places. I felt underpaid and undervalued in quite a few of them. I wont list them, but Ive worked in pubs, fast food places, shops, as a tour guide, in a holiday camp, in warehouses, in factories... and I can genuinely tell you that I did my best in every job. I worked in a dog food factory once and I fucking hated it. And as soon as I could I got a different job. But while I was there I still worked as quickly as I could and I still treated every one of my colleagues with the same basic level of respect I would like anyone to treat me with.

And that includes holiday jobs where the was no prospect or expectation of more pay or promotion. I did my best because thats just what I expect of myself and I wouldnt respect myself if I deliberately did a poor job.

To give the closes example I can think of to "why should a waiter who isn't getting a good tip bother" (and I think I will have to say that "not bothering" is not the same as deliberately making a customer wait an hour and dropping the food on the floor before bringing it out) is when I was 17. I was working 12 hours a week in a newsagents (something like an American 7/11 I guess). I had been there over a year and was trusted to be in the store alone etc. A classmate of mine got a job there and I found out (because she told me) she had started on a better wage than me despite me having one years experience.

I didn't think it was there and I asked my boss for a payrise, and he said no.

But I didn't try less hard to do my job. I was still as polite as I could be to customers, still went an extra mile to help people when I could, still did the extra/you dont really have to type work like straightening up the stock, helping people bag their stuff up, etc. And after about 6 weeks he gave me a pay rise.

_

I'm not going to get into who knows more about working in a pizza joint with you, or anything else... but that has genuinely always been my personal attitude.

If I'm paid by a place to give service, I would do my best... if I relied on tips for extra money and some customers didn't choose to give me one... I can honestly look you in the eye and say I would still do my best. The next time the guy came in perhaps I'd try and be extra friendly to win him over. And if he never tipped me, at the end of the day I work for the guy who runs the place, and if I take the job and I take his money I have a responsibility to try and do that job as well as I can and that is what I would do.

And I am not basing this on my "common sense" knowledge of the world. I am 100% telling you that is how I am.
--- merged: May 7, 2012 11:44 AM ---

I live in London do I?

If I said that service included in the bill never happens in the UK (and I am not sure I did but I cant be bothered to read back through it) then certainly I was wrong and I will freely admit to that.

It isn't common in the kind of places I eat, but in "fine dining" places (the kind of places I personally feel uncomfortable) it happens all the time.

I think what I said is that I believed that the principle of split charging of two services which you had to buy together would be challengable under English law (and if you think about it, it wouldn't have made any sense for me to say that if I believed that no restaurant in the UK had a mandatory service charge, would it?)

I still personally think I have a good case. If I ever find myself stuck in a relationship with a woman I dont really like I certainly will put it to the test, because as the guy above said - what women would tolerate dating a man who demanded under the threat of civil action to be allowed to serve himself straight from the soup pot?

 

Strange, if that -is- your attitude and work-ethic, I applaud it. Truly, I do. The world needs more of that. My other objections to your positions, at least within the context of American restaurant culture, stand. Likewise my objections to your characterizations of waitstaff and customers.

 

It may just be me, but I'm guessing many an hour has been spent between select members of this thread discussing similar things (especially sex-related) on TFP 4.0.

Oh well, always better to be late to the party than never to get there. Your exchanges have massive entertainment value to me.

Can I show my appreciation by tipping you guys in proportion with your e-penis size?

 

Thanks for that. Will make sure to look it up in the archives.

 

I definitely wouldn't tip the barber who cut my hair and I don't go into coffee shops. I usually do tell a taxi driver to keep the change. At xmas id leave a fiver for the paperboy or papergirl. If I have waitress service and it's ok I'll normally tip ten percent or a bit less... I certainly prefer to live the English way. In America they even expect you tip the postman???

 

Well, I dont know the prices for women's haircuts. The last time I went to a barber the clown charged me £10 for a haircut that took him 8 minutes to give me. I said to him "are you having a laugh?" and he comes on all serious saying the price was on the board when I sat down.

I made exactly the same point you did, that that was an advertised price for a haircut of a normal head of hair, all I had was a grade 2 all over and he should feel ashamed to ask me for more that a fiver. He stood his ground and I was so angry I never went back to a barbers again, I bought a pair of clippers and I do it myself now.

If you have a lot of hair I suppose it should go both ways, but this guy was definitely taking the piss out of me. For £10 I should have asked him to stick the hair back on the head, but these rip off merchants really just take the michael out of honest hard working men. To be honest I'm getting a bit annoyed again just typing it out. I wish I had stood up to him now and not let him push me around.

 

Some people do leave the postman a tip, especially those who have mail service at their door vs on the street. Some leave a small gift for the postman on the holidays. I have never done either.

I tip for a haircut, restaurant dining. I refuse to tip at any establishment with a drive-thru window (sorry Starbucks) I do not tip for a takeout order either, I am sorry but I don't feel it is much of a service to put food in a box... they do that at McDonalds and I have never heard of anyone tipping there. I will tip for any meal or beverage delivered, served etc. That chart is a bit of a joke to be honest. I would tip a valet, porter etc. I would tip hotel/cruise/inn housekeeping only if I am going to stay subsequent nights and especially if they answer my requests for extra amenities (extra towels, coffee etc..) As far as utility service providers, furniture delivery, painters, decorators, contractors, plumbers.. etc.. most major companies don't allow gratuities and you are paying out a pretty hefty sum for the job no, I would not tip. I have never taken a taxi but I would leave a tip if I did.

 

I didn't look at the price, I just thought it would be a couple of kid to give me a trim.

I paid him the £10 he demanded of me rather then stand up for myself. Its just not a fair price. All he had to do is run the trimmers over my heads a few times, but some guy who wanted a complicated hair cut with the scissors would have paid the same.

I'm not that angry a person, but I dont like people taking advantage of me. The price was on the wall so that was how he got away with it, but he was still taking the piss charging £10 for so little work.

If I booked someone to do some tiling in my house and he said "it's a days work and thats £200 plus materials" and I found out he had finished in an hour, it'd be the same principle and I'd pay him £50 and materials. Obviously the mistake I made was I didnt get the man to give me a quote for my hair before I started, and if I ever went to a barber again i wouldnt make that mistake again.
--- merged: May 8, 2012 at 5:34 PM ---

For that sort of money I couldn't afford to keep my hair, I'd have to have it off. I'd go down the local college and ask them to give me a drug trial that would have no side effects other than baldness.

$30 for 5 minutes work!! They must be millionaires at this salon with prices like that.

 

A person who regards "grab its' jaws and rip them apart" or "grab its' hind legs and rip them apart" or "fix them with a masterful glare" as suitable means of self-defense against an attacking pitbull, yet accuses a playful Golden Retriever of trying to push him into a river and make him drop his groceries, that's who.

Strange, bluntly put, that barber didn't "take the michael" out of an "honest working man," -you- did. Or rather, you attempted to. He advertised his price, which you accepted by sitting down and getting the haircut. You utilised his services, ergo you accepted his price. And then you tried to berate and browbeat him into charging you a price lower than what you had already agreed to. Moreover, unless I badly miss my guess, you -knew- how long that haircut would take and how involved it would be -before- you sat down and accepted the price, indicating that you acted in Bad Faith. You sat down with the intent to accept that man's services and then try to con him into accepting a lesser-than-agreed-to payment -after- he had already done his work. You tried to take money out of that man's pocket, money which he earned according to the terms of your agreement, an agreement which you explicitly accepted by accepting his services. -He- did not try to rip anyone off, -you- did. At absolute best, you failed to notice his clearly advertised price, which makes your handling of the situation, at best, idiotic as opposed to larcenous, fraudulent, and dishonest.
I've dealt with people like you for years in the retail/auction world. They see a product advertised, with the shipping costs and any fees (local sales-tax, credit-card fees, etc) clearly indicated. They bid for the product, then win it. The sales website through which we do business processes their order, and immediately charges -us- for processing it. -THEN-, AFTER bidding and winning (and thereby agreeing to the clearly-posted charges mentioned above) they try -exactly- the same shit you referenced in your post.

"That's too much!"
"You can't be serious!"
"Why won't you lower the charges?"
"You're tryin' ta skrew meeeee!!!"
"I a'int payin' that, fuck you!"
Then they get all butthurt when we leave them bad feedback and refuse their custom in future.

As we put it in my shop, you had no bitch.None.
With an attitude like yours, I'd be honestly surprised if any service-industry business other than chippies, petrol stations, and take-aways will even let you in their front door anymore. I certainly wouldn't.

Edited to add: Some kinda weird formatting problem here...