Etiquette and common courtesy

I'll confess.

I regularly judge other people on first impressions. Sometimes, I'll make all kinds of assumptions about people based on their table manners, too. I'll also judge them on their dress and their looks. I might imagine them having sex and giggle a bit on the inside. I'm bad.

I'll be pissed off at children spoiling the ambience if I'm in the mood to be pissed off. At other times, I might find them cute. It probably depends how noisy the little bastards are.

I'll take enormous pleasure at being under-dressed in a good restaurant and knowing that my jeans and leather jacket might be pissing someone else off. I'll think they are being prissy. Another day, it will be my turn to be prissy.

I'm probably not unusual.

 

As an avid fan of bars, I take offense (like cynthetiq does) at that.

I've been to a down-to-earth Japanese-themed bar close to Bondi Beach which was simply fantastic for enjoying a drink and having a conversation with whomever accompanied you in a relaxing and quiet setting, with soothing Japanese classical music being played in the background. I've been to a high-class blue-themed bar in Dubai with a very relaxing Jazz background, and enjoyed quite a few evenings with clients/partners there. Perfect for a conversation.

Just like restaurants, the types of bars that exist are abundant in their variety. A relaxing, quiet bar does not need to be fancy and serve a high-class clientele only. It's about the atmosphere, enjoying the drink and doing not much else.

 

My friend's behavior wasn't an issue since I was able to avert her [likely] reaction, knowing her as I do. So any remarks that had to do with her [behavior] were ... what? ... I don't even know. Why respond, until someone said that they feel pity for her? That brought some color to my cheeks. Feel pity for someone who would neglect a child not for someone who routinely spends long hours helping them. I know that no one knew that, but now they do ... so lay off. I'm still here if anyone needs a target.

 

No. How am I judging anyone? Does the phrase "I like green" imply some sort of judgment of people who don't like green? I don't think it does. I won't argue with your opinion here, though, other than to remind you that it isn't a fact.

Good for you. Opinions are fun. Notice how I don't feel judged at all, even though you expressed an opinion.

In general that may be true. And if we're talking in generalities, these study results might make for interesting fodder. However, they have absolutely zero relevance in determining the source of unruliness in any actual children you may come into contact with on a day to day basis.

Children are also impacted by their environment, too, so why do you focus on the parental ability? Parental ability doesn't exist in a vacuum. Do you think that there may be other factors that play a role? I'm not saying that parents have no effect, just that they are just one piece of the puzzle.

I'm just saying, every time someone posts some half-assed study results about how kids these days are stupid, you always seem to right up near the top of the thread with a comment along the lines of "Uh huh, it's because they have shitty parents." Perhaps obsession is too strong a word, though.
--- merged: Feb 5, 2012 9:41 PM ---

See, I read your descriptions of these bars and in think "those are lounges, not bars". That's just semantics though. I fully acknowledge the diversity that exists in drinking establishments.

 

Separated by a common language. When I think of a bar, I don't think of food (apart from bar snacks, maybe). When I think of a lounge, I think of something in a hotel or an airport.

 

The implication being that the line distinguishing respectful from disrespectful exists somewhere between the bit I quoted and the bits from your original post that included derisive statements of inhumanity and barbarism.

I disagree.

 

I won't take responsibility for your perceptions.

I believe that there usually isn't a lot of explanatory value in taking ideas that may be true on a general level and applying them to individuals.

I already backtracked from the word obsession. Still, I think that if you condition on threads concerning poorly behaved children, the probability that you pop in early on and strongly in favor of the "bad parent" hypothesis is pretty high.

 

I had a friend who ate like that. I asked him if he ever closed his mouth while chewing, and he said it made the food taste better. I asked him how a sprinkling of knuckles would improve that flavor.

We are no longer friends. I can't stand smackers or open mouthed chewers.

( this was not the only reason we are not friends, but it's definitely a part of a larger picture of someone who doesn't think at all of others or propriety )

 

Cayvmann, "I asked him how a sprinkling of knuckles would improve the flavor." I had to laugh! If I'm ever in Central N.C. perhaps we could hook up for dinner.

 

So do you just disagree with the notion of the ecological fallacy then? The average family size (the generalized way of characterizing something like family size) in the United States is 3.2 people. Are you also shocked that you've never met a family with 3.2 members?

I'll admit, it's a pretty small sample. I can only think of this thread and the two you mentioned. The subject doesn't seem to come up all that much.

And this thread is about poorly behaved children - grown children, but poorly behaved nonetheless (see your first post in this thread for references to poorly behaved grown children and their at-fault parents). Because apparently adults aren't responsible for their own behavior, their parents are.

You shouldn't take things so personally. I haven't taken anything you've said to me personally. I don't even know you, but I'm sure you're a swell guy. If I told you I wasn't perfect, I doubt it would be the first time the notion had crossed your mind.

Even so, you're confusing the issue if you think the number of posts you have is relevant. Why would they be if they have nothing to do with this subject? To be clear, I don't have qualms with your opinions on positive or negative parenting, just your apparent eagerness to attribute the characteristics of people primarily to the quality of their parents. I think that model is too rough an approximation of reality because it fails to explain the fairly common occurrence of siblings having wildly different life trajectories despite having been raised by the same parents.

 

maybe he was? you'd be surprised how few shits one can give when you're hungry enough. then again, my ideas of manners are basically exactly what he was doing when i'm among peers, but act the angel when i'm around superiors

since having a moral/social high ground became the thing that all the cool kids happened to want (shortly after the first pokemon movie came out)

 

Disagree with you there. I wouldn't argue for any particular party to be the biggest piece of the puzzle in the development of a person, I'd say it's the entire social environment to which the child is exposed to that molds them. The biggest puzzle in forming their character and values may be the parents for some, their cousins/extended family, or their completely unrelated friends in others.

What it boils down to is the different times when a person is most susceptible to outside influence on him/her. Many a kid is almost completely formed by their group of friends (though they will never acknowledge this) during adolescence, and even the best discipline and moral values taught by your parents can be eroded with enough exposure to the wrong people camouflaged as friends/BFFs. The biggest puzzle here would be the friends, no?

Social environment, not only mom'n'dad.

 

Sure, I'll try not to smack.

Unfortunately, coming from a family with 6 boys, I tend to eat fast... I'm working on that.

 

Just for the record, there are other (health-related) reasons why a person might need to chew with their mouth open. Other than boorishness.

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