Politics Who's Gonna Win?

What's your point about the trough? I think you've misread what I wrote. The problem here is that the recovery isn't happening very fast, not that anyone was ever afraid of not hitting bottom.

If you ignore the likelihoods that you made up in your head, I think your argument falls apart. The GOP's response to every plan that isn't a supply side themed mechanism has been to kick and scream and obstruct. Unfortunately, supply side, as practiced by the GOP, isn't the solution to any problem other than "how are we gonna get these more money to these people who already have more money than they know what to do with?"

The folks in congress, occasionally with the help of Obama, have done seemingly everything in their power to ensure that no effective comprehensive solution has been attempted. So you get the too-small stimulus. Or the band-aid cash for clunkers. Or the payroll tax break. Or the poorly implemented TARP. If you think the GOP wasn't complacent in the shitty implementation of TARP, you should double check how many of them have voted against better oversight of the FED after TARP's shitty implementation came to light and get back to me.

 

It is all good and fine to quote history when making an argument, in fact I do so often. However, a wise mind will also incorporate current affairs into said argument in order to make a well rounded and logical statement. When one takes into account the new worldwide economy, and the systematic collapse taking place before our very eyes across the globe...affairs in this country are no longer so simple. You are doing well to cherry pick those pieces of the tarp program that might be questionable while ignoring the benefits, as this makes your argument somewhat tenable. I will be forced however. to point out the facts...such as the continued automotive industry in our country due to this "Failed Program", the 270,000 vehicles estimated to have been swapped for new cars (also helping to save GM and Chrysler, let alone the thousands of jobs you would be bitching about losing). And...do not get me started on thee Cronyism your man Bush played while in office,,,,good 'Ol Browny, doin' a hell of a job, Haliburton, etc.....If you are going to try to degrade your president....at least do it well.

 

Seriously?
TARP (originated on the right, you know) was a stimulus program that propped up banks who's shit was as thin as that stuff you wrap spring rolls in. If those banks had failed the effect on the market would have plummeted us into a depression by making the dollar worthless. It was oil on the gears of a machine that should have died ages ago, but we can't allow it to die until we have a viable replacement. The financial instutions we lost were big and bad enough (by bad enough, I mean dicking the common consumer) and we lost how many? But I guess you figure live by the sword and we could lose more. It's not our responsibility to save them. I agree, it's not, but if the only way we can stop them from taking a big dump in our common well is to save them then that's what we should do.
Cash for clunker the 'hey get rid of your peice of shit car and we'll help you buy a new one' program didn't help either? That along with bailing out Chrysler an GM might have saved that industry. Forget about the jobs lost during an inevitable reorganization, how about the jobs lost from companies that support the indusrty who were already robbing Peter to pay Paul trying stay current on the loans to those banks that are about to fail. Loans that often had as much to do with payroll as to do with expansion.
The renegotitation program said sure banks we'll end you more, but you gotta give those people you dicked a bit of slack in making their payments on those crazy loans you made. So for your neighbor who last month saved $300 on his mortgage and can now buy his kid a can of soup wasn't worth it?
As for the health reform thing, it's kinda wait and see as much of it hasn't gone into effect. Still I lean towards dr.s getting paid on time, people getting the care they need instead of hospitals find ways to use their awsome new machine and insurance cost going down across the board being a good thing. That's what will happen right? Everybody's got insurance so the hospital won't jack me because a poor single mother brought her kid to the er with the sniffles and she can't pay.

 

Tecoyah, I have to agree with Issmmm in regards to the above mentioned programs. The one area I disagree with him on is the health care law. I believe it will be looked back on as a historic moment towards medical reform. Are there things wrong with it? Absolutely! There are valid shortcomings pointed out from both sides of the political spectrum, but it is a good starting point. The bigger issue is how to keep special interests/lobbyists from declawing that, and every other law that is beneficial to the 99%.

The problem with debating people like yourself, and the majority of tea party folks, is your first statement, "I could go into detail and refute what you wrote..." There is never any listening, and point-counter point discussion. You need to at least try to justify your positions with facts. To state, " It never happened before during a downturn, why should it happen now?", as your justification that TARP was unnecessary is ludicrous.

Tecoyah, I am not trying to be disrespectful of you.....I'm just flabbergasted! I know my statements come out curt, but it has to do with my level of frustration with people who will not listen to my point of view whatsoever. I have no problem saying..... Obama is wrong on this, the democrats are wrong on that.... if it is true. I have no problem having a philosophical difference with someone (see Ron Paul). My frustration level ignites when faced with people who will not debate based on factual information, and will never, ever, admit they are wrong.

​

 

I'm thinking you have confused my reply with someone else, as I have no Hot beverages other than Coffee before me. Perhaps, you meant to direst your reply at loquitur?

 

Started watching the Penn Jillete thing, then realized...hey I'm watching Penn Jillete and he's not doing magic. That's like watching Angelina Jolie talk politics, all the while you're thinking 'shut up, bitch. Now, pose and pout. That's it, yeah that's it'...I digress, ahem, anyway

Iowa votes the primary today, anybody watching? Taking bets?
I'll take :
Romney 1:1 to win
Paul 2nd at 3:1
Huntsman to place

 

Only Pat Robertson knows for sure:

​

"I think He showed me about the next president, but I'm not supposed to talk about that so I'll leave you in the dark -- probably just as well -- but I think I know who it's gonna be. I'm going to read just as I wrote down as if I'm hearing from the Lord these words."​

God speaking: "Your president holds a view which is at the odds with the majority...This is a spiritual battle which can only be won by overwhelming prayer"​

Can I get an AMEN!

 

time for a ron paul win i hope. the entrance polls are showing him way out in front.

 

I hope santorum stays in the race. I want to hear more about surging santorum.

 

im actually surprised at how well santorum is doing. i knew he was surging, but i didn't think it was that much.

 

The social conservative evangelical war hawks (the republican base) came out in big numbers.

But can he sustain? He has no money and no organization outside of Iowa.

 

A win in Iowa could bring in that money.

 

To some degree, but he also has to be vetted by the voters and face the same scrutiny that the others faced and that he has yet to face (he was a big earmarker in Congress, supported the liberal republican in his home state over the conservative in the last Senate election....). And those still backing Gingrich and, to a lesser degree, Perry, have to be swayed away. I dont think either will drop out but rather their attack dogs will focus on Santorum.

I suspect he'll downplay NH and focus on SC and FL, where that same social conservative evangelical war hawk base is strong.

 

Make no mistake, I don't think Santorum will go the distance. I just think if he wins in Iowa, he can expect more money to flow.

 

The longer he hangs around, the better for the Democrats!

This is a guy who reiterated yesterday that states should have the right to ban all forms of contraception.

 

and so begins the most pants-on-head retarded system for picking presidential candidates the world has ever seen.

if you started from scratch, you couldn't develop a more convoluted process

 

And then there were six
Michelle Bachman has dropped out of the race, I think I heard/read that Perry was contemplating the same