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Penn State Child Molestation Scandal

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Borla, Nov 8, 2011.

Page 12 of 24
  1. roachboy

    roachboy Very Tilted

    for what it's worth, since i used the phrase lynch mob, i am not referring to you specifically, borla. i put a few posts in this thread when it started and then didn't read it for a couple/three weeks. when i came back to it, i was startled by the shift in overall tone. that shift is what made me wonder about the creepy lynch mob thing.
     
    roachboy, Dec 9, 2011
    #221
  2. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    I appreciate that. I actually went back and reviewed all of my posts in this thread before posting that last reply. I've participated in a few discussions on this topic across various forums, so I wanted to make sure that at some point over the last couple of weeks I didn't jump the rails. Most of my posts in here, or at least many of them, were simply links to new information as it became available, with comments about how it impacted the story.

    I personally believe he's guilty, but I understand I don't have all the facts. I hope whoever makes that final decision gets all the facts. If what he's being accused of is even close to true, I don't think there is a punishment that equals the crime. But if he lives the balance of his life in prison I'll accept that that's as good as we're going to get. Acting like savages and inflicting pain and torture on him gets us nowhere, as appealing as it might be to some of our vindictive sides.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #222
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I too am uncomfortable with the mob mentality thing. While the courts may not be a requirement to determine the guilt of someone, they do represent due process, which is better than mob rule. (Especially when the mob rule itself only leads to further crime.)

    But the media is just doing its job, and the public will do its thing. Just don't expect me to go along with it. I don't tend to play armchair magistrate.

    The herd mentality hobbles entire economies. Not much good comes from it.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 9, 2011
    #223
  4. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    Borla, my point is that I'm not convinced that he's guilty. I think he probably is. But I'm not confident. I couldn't convict him. I haven't heard his defense. I've heard his ill-advised interview, but that seems more of a media miscalculation than anything else.

    My take-away from this thread is that you're 100% convinced of his guilt. With arm-twisting, I'll admit to expecting that he'll be found guilty, but I wouldn't be surprised it's not on all counts and that some of the accusations never result in charges because they're not credible.
     
    the_jazz, Dec 9, 2011
    #224
  5. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    But you accused me of trying to get you to join a lynch mob, which it was at least implied that I was trying to stir up. I've clearly said that, with the what appears to be credible information gathered so far, the facts seem overwhelming stacked towards him being guilty of at least portions of the accusations. I've stated repeatedly that he'll get, and deserves, his day in court. And that's all I've said.

    The reality is that we both think he's guilty (I've never said he was absolutely guilty, though I do believe it'll take some incredible piece of new information to prove he's not), we both admit we don't have all the facts, and we both admit the proper forum for deciding that is a fair trial. I fail to see any massive disconnect between our opinions. I also haven't seen a single opinion from anyone here who believes he's even probably not guilty.

    I think it's completely unfair to say that my opinion is trying to incite a lynch mob and vigilante justice when I've done no such thing. Maybe I'm being too defensive over semantics, but I don't think I'm pushing for the vigilantism that I think you are projecting on me.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #225
  6. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    Borla, I think you need to reread what I wrote. I never accused you of inciting a lynch mob. I simply stated that I wasn't going to rush to judgment.
     
    the_jazz, Dec 9, 2011
    #226
  7. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    The quote below isn't saying I'm trying to get you to join a lynch mob?

    I'm obviously confused, because it seems to be to me.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #227
  8. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Listen, you catch a guy redhanded raping a little boy...you don't due process that ass...you string him up by his ballsack and let the parents take whacks at him with a baseball bat.
     
    Eddie, Dec 9, 2011
    #228
  9. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    And when I lie and say I caught you doing that, and I'm convincing enough that most people believe me, then what?

    That's why we have due process and that whole "beyond a reasonable doubt" stuff in place of random vigilante justice.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #229
    • Like Like x 1
  10. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Then you find the little boy and you ask him. And you find the perpetrator and you ask him. And you get to the bottom of it real fast. It's not complicated. I've spent a lot of time in countries that practice community/street justice and you'd be surprised how effective this system is at preventing sick bastards like Sandusky from roaming free.
     
    Eddie, Dec 9, 2011
    #230
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    No, you listen. There is a justice system for a reason. It's to ensure proper (i.e. reasoned) responses to crimes such as sexual child abuse, (adult) sexual assault, assault and battery, attempted murder, manslaughter, murder, and anything else that may arise from your fantasy/wish-fulfillment scenario.
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 9, 2011
    #231
    • Like Like x 1
  12. ALISTAIR

    Alistair Eurotrash

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    That's kind of what a system of justice does, isn't it?

    Interesting. Where, exactly, and when? I've lived in a few countries myself (not all Western, by any means) and don't recognise this from any country that I would encourage us to emulate.
     
    Alistair, Dec 9, 2011
    #232
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    And if I've tricked, fooled, or threatened the boy into lying? And if the perp denies it?

    Please, share what countries commonly practice street justice, and how wonderful the entire package of their living conditions was.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #233
  14. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    The justice system in this country is run by a bunch of activist, liberal judges that give more rights to the offender than to the victim.

    Most sub-saharan African countries as well as some North African ones. Honduras, Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Costa Rica.

    In the D.R. I watched a group of people drag a drunk man from a vehicle, take him across the street to a park and beat and stab him to death. He had run over and killed a little boy on the side of the road.
    --- merged: Dec 10, 2011 12:03 AM ---
    In Morocco I asked one of my guides what happened to a disfigured woman that was selling vegetables in the market. He said that she had been burned in public for cheating on her husband. And in Africa I can't even count the number of times I've seen street justice take place.
     
    Eddie, Dec 9, 2011
    #234
  15. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    Sounds totally fair and reasonable.

    Errrrrr, no.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #235
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    Equally? Do you really believe his innocence is "equally" possible? He was caught red-handed on one occasion and admitted to fondling a boy on another. This is grand jury testimony, not media allegation and hearsay.
    Yes, there will be defense and prosecution back and forth regarding timelines, witness credibility and the rest, but so much grand jury testimony cannot be disregarded and will definitely be the highlight of the prosecution's case. The "evidence" is already out there in the form of this grand jury testimony. The courtroom drama is pretty much a technically at this point. Of course, the defense will be looking to undermine it all and it will be interesting to see how they go about trying to dismantle the case by intimidating witnesses and victims and having certain testimony and evidence disallowed on procedural and legal technicalities, but I don't foresee any smoking gun scenario where it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Sandusky is innocent.

    I'm not sure what else you'd be looking for when this finally gets to court. He will be found guilty on some if not all counts. Hopefully on at least a few of the felony counts. 1 person can be wrong or lying. It gets a little tricky when it gets up to a dozen. If he only molested 1, that's enough.
     
    Joniemack, Dec 9, 2011
    #236
  17. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member


    There are already victims coming forward saying they've had messages left by Sandusky's wife and others trying to contact them about their allegations.
     
    Borla, Dec 9, 2011
    #237
  18. EDDIE

    Eddie Getting Tilted

    Exactly. The only thing that will come of this is a huge circus that will bring more pain to the families involved.
    --- merged: Dec 10, 2011 12:07 AM ---
    It's better than stoning her to death though, isn't it?
     
    Eddie, Dec 9, 2011
    #238
  19. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK
    FAIL.
     
    Joniemack, Dec 9, 2011
    #239
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    This sounds like bullshit. What rights are you talking about?

    So anywhere with a defective justice system?

    Would you suggest that a gang rape would have been the most just?
     
    Baraka_Guru, Dec 9, 2011
    #240
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