A loving God that instills fear of punishment as His "love"?

Pain is a result of discipline. Pain is a result of being human.

But I'd also like to add that child's fear of his God should be a reverent fear. God is perfect and just, but also powerful. It is a realization of God's awesome power that causes that reverent fear.

 

@Baraka,

I think you are twisting the meaning of the word here. The dictionary definition uses one word: punishment.

Normally, we would refer to these other activities as "teaching discipline" or "teaching ourselves self-discipline", but I don't see either of those evoking fear. I hope I did it to my own kids, but I don't recall them being afraid while I did it..
--- merged: Nov 28, 2011 12:04 AM ---

Why should I fear the powerful?

Unless I fear that power being turned against me.

But then, would someone who loves me do that?

 

I can't for the life of me reconcile the concept of preaching political self-reliance (government bad! individual good!) while also preaching subservience to a magic sky wizard

 

@Baraka - We are in absolute agreement about the real meaning of discipline (noun) and how to go about teaching/learning it. The rest is semantics, and is probably not furthering the debate.

Maybe the question should be about how God is "disciplining" us?

 

Discipline as a verb is a bit gray, to my thinking. In parental terms, I'd have to say it is the meting out of a punishment for bad or incorrect behavior or behavior which can endanger the child. But is it punishing a 15 year old child to say for instance... they have to call home if they are going to be out past their curfew because they came in at 2 am the night before or is it merely disciplining them in the practice of responsible behavior?

Of course, the discipline would take on a different form if the child were to continue to come home late without calling. I suppose it would be left up the child to determine if it was a punishment or if his parents were just being a pain in the ass.

In any event, it never needs to include violence.
--- merged: Nov 28, 2011 12:26 AM ---

He's inflicting earthquakes, tsunamis and tooth decay upon us if we don't do want he wants. If you attend your local church often enough you will be "in the know" as to what it is he wants. If you don't, beware.

 

Pain is a result, not a cause. That said, I disagree with you Baraka. I don't believe that any human can grow from infancy to adulthood and never experience any pain in the discipline we receive. I think if we take time to reflect, we will realize that at some point we felt pain while learning certain lessons of life. Receiving discipline is, at times, painful. There's no way around it.

As far as the bible goes: "Whom the Lord loves, He disciplines, and scourges every son He receives."- Hebrews 12:6

 

So he does inflict pain (being whipped stings). But it's out of love, right?

 

That's right.

 

There is a difference between the pain of life's lessons, and those who purposefully inflict pain under the guise of discipline.
Knowingly causing any kind of harm/injury is.... Abuse.

Many abused children and adults have a difficult time differentiating between abuse and love.
Love meant being beaten. A good therapist can spend years trying to help people sort these
issues out.

 

Have fun with that. I choose a different path

 

The bible goes a little farther too: "If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts,you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. " - Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Some 'discipline'.

 

Of course we all experience our fair share of pain in this life. It's all around us and unavoidable. We often grow through the pain of experience. What, if anything, does that have to do with parental corporal punishment? Children should be raised in an environment where they know, despite the pain they may experience outside of the home, their home is a safe and loving haven. No child should have to learn the lesson of how painful life can be by suffering at the hands of their own parents. Teach rather than torture.

And a sadist.

 

That's why the world is in such a mess - Frenchy liberal thinking.

 

I'd just like to add that some of us like our private parts to be seized.

 

Save the family jewels! Hilarious. You can't make this stuff up.