A loving God that instills fear of punishment as His "love"?

The idea comes from another thread where someone claims to be a Christian but believes that God being the parent dictates love through fear of discipline. It's a good argument. that's one reason there are so many denominations, each views God's love in a different way.

In the Old Testament, it was pretty much very in line with what we deem the "mythologies" of many other civilizations, except for one major difference, a command for a monotheistic religion. If there was a natural disaster, it was a "god's" fault whether it was the Abarhamic Old Testament God or those pesky Greek/Roman/Norse/Egyptian gods it was them "teaching a lesson" to their "children".

So Old Testament = just a monotheistic version of the "gods" from Valhalla/Mount Olympus/Ra/ whatever. However, if we look and read into the Old Testament, IF the Abrahamic God is so omnipotent then one must ask why does he say he is a jealous "GOD' and thus there should be no other "gods" before him? Is he refering to the polytheistic religions who explained emotions and natural disasters that they could not explain as coming from a "god" it was from Ares/Ra/Thor/Trident/Romulus and Remis/Aphrodite/whomever or the Abrahamic God. All of these used parables and "god influences" to explain what at the time was unexplainable.

Thus if an asteroid or meteor crashed 1000's of miles away and because of its size rained "fire" from the sky, it was God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah for being sinful. Lot's wife is a "pillar of salt" can explain natural salt formations in the Dead Sea. "God's" punishment, yet in reality a natural disaster, explained in the only ways they knew how to in that era of time. The same exact way the Greeks/Romans/Norse/Egyptians would have used one of their "gods" to explain what happened.

Now let's look at the New Testament:

Abrahamic God impregnates a human woman to bear a son. The son disappears with little to no explanation, until he is a fully grown man. He comes back speaking radical (at the time) ideas. What he taught was community and love. He offered hope from this God who commanded fear from his "children". But again, for someone so loving and caring his message is "follow me or die".

As for revelations it's a BS book to inspire more fear and control. Jesus (if you truly believe what he says is the be all and end all of following him) stated death was death and never mentions burning in Hell or the "anti-Christ", it isn't until Revelations that we see this loving God again "punishing through fear" those that do not believe in him. It came from not one of the original apostles nor Jesus himself, who is NOT even truly mentioned in Revelations. It is a nice way to command control over the believing masses though and many "born again" Christians thump this one book more than any other in the Bible. It is not a book of hope but a book of control and virtually takes all that Jesus taught and says, "yeah, follow him and the leaders of the church or this is what shall happen to you." Even though Jesus himself stated "death was death"(no hell-fire or brimstone"). Many scholars argue Christ basically taught not existing in the eyes of God is Hell.

Now we take that and we add it all up to today where the "Religious" Right pretty much worship the dollar as their God and support the very people in power that Christ fought against. He (as were Buddha, Mohammed, Cicero, Plato, Plutarch) was against charging interest. In fact one reason the Jewish dominate the banking industry is because at one time the Catholic Church condemned charging interest.

he was against mixing politics and religion, he felt taxes were acceptable no matter the rate.

" (wonder if that is why we truly have "In God We trust" on our money?)

And yet, the Religious Right and Wall Street would have us believe this was ok. That they were the ones God has blessed and that God loves through instilling fear of punishment.

 

As I don't believe in a sentient being who either loves us or disciplines us (or both), I can't really get into that.

I do believe that many people create a God in their own image, and I think that is happening again here.

 

God appeals to people who either can't live life with random events, or can't take credit/blame for their own actions.

As such, the concept doesn't much appeal to me

 

God does not punish his children, He disciplines them. A punishment is a penalty, however the penalty for our misdeeds has already been paid by Jesus on the cross. Discipline, however, is a form of education from father to child...and can evoke fear.

 

Why would it evoke fear?

 

Fear of the unknown is the reason why the God myth exists in the first place

 

A complete lack of understanding in such things as physics, mathematics and evolution permits me to understand why ancient cultures would look to deities as the cause and effect of everything in their lives. I understand these same beliefs in isolated tribal cultures.

What I don't understand is how these beliefs survive today?

Somewhere in all the reasons must lie the individual believer's fear - that acknowledging the science that has cleared up many of the mysteries of the ancients, removes the existence where he/she are not responsible for their own actions. They are still children, after all.

Dangerous children at times.

 

Because discipline is often painful.

 

So a "Hell" where those who don't believe in him will burn for eternity?" How is that not a punishment?

 

He's just sending them to their room without supper.

For eternity

 

But the pain caused by this "discipline" is not a punishment.. ?

Tell me more ...

 

Not like we're his children anyway, I suppose. Sort of like buying pot in 3rd world country. You can't expect any special treatment - straight to the dungeon.
--- merged: Nov 27, 2011 11:48 PM ---

Maybe because Buddhism is not so much a religion as it is a fearless discipline of mind, thought, body, and spirit. Its dogma, if you want to call it that, is suggestive rather than rule bound.

 

The conflation of love and violence has been around in various forms for many ages.

A parent whipping and beating a child while telling them, "I'm doing this because I love you."
It's the ultimate mind-fuck and spirit-killer.
And equally repulsive when some of the religious leaders use the same tactic.

 

"Spare the rod, spoil the child"

The Bible says it so it must be right.

"He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes." (Proverbs 13:24)

 

For "discipline" as a noun, I agree.

However, as a verb, it means punishment. Eddie used it as a verb.