Occupy Wall Street

How did what I posted above imply punishing anyone or suggest anyone cave into my demands?

Or perhaps you can explain how the words and/or actions of a handful of people is representative of the larger movement involving thousands of people at sites around the country.

 

Yeah but they are directly the reason for someone. See, you want respect and the nation to sympathize for your cause but you are unwilling and so self righteously absorbed you don't care who gets hurt by you or your "cause", as long as you get what you want you will put whoever stands in your way down to show them..... and you are better than the 1% HOW?

 

Look, in my view, if this happened, it was wrong. Plain and simple.

That doesn't make the movement wrong. It makes this action wrong.

Accepting that wrong things happen, even those that are unnecessary and avoidable, isn't undermining the movement. It is just the right thing to do. While, on the whole, I have been impressed by the general discipline of serious OWS supporters, there are some who are idiots. We've all seen them on videos.

Friendly fire still hurts. It hurts more when it is denied or attempts are made to justify it.

I don't see this as in any way indicative of the movement, but it behoves the movement to try and uphold the best principles it can while remaining true to the intent.

 

Pan...I understand that there are people who get hurt by any social/political movement that is attempting the change the status quo. I dont want anyone to get hurt, but that is not likely to happen.

What I dont understand (again) is how the actions of a (very) few are representative of the larger movement that, while engaging in civil obedience w/passive resistance, are not acting violently or directly hurting anyone.

 

because the post implies that it is the 1%'s fault and thus the people losing everything directly because of the movement are ok and tolerable for "the greater good.

I don't see anyone here supporting the OWS saying what they did was wrong. I see bullshit that those people, their friends and families can't complain about what the OWS "minority" did. I don't see 1 damned supporter saying and maintaining that what those protesters did was wrong. I hear for the common good... bullshit, I hear those who aren't willing to go out have no right to complain bullshit.

Again, what I have seen personally, is that this is a group of spoiled rotten vindictive child men/women who are out to be a part of something, anything they don't care, they have no idea what they are even out there for. There is no end game, there is no willingness to negotiate, it's take it or leave it and we'll just fuck over people who disagree. Shut the fuck up or your store is next. Let us piss in your john and steal from you or we'll shut you down.

Fuck that..... you want that? go ahead, but I don't see you providing the answers as to what WILL change and why her losing her business and not being able to pay her bills in the long run is going to help ANYONE.

What is your mentality that thinks this behavior is acceptable?

 

Sigh....I dont know how to respond if you only want to focus on one incident. It was wrong, OK? But there is nothing to suggest it was indicative of the larger movement that you seem to want to insist is the case.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I support OWS, unequivocally (and condemned this act as wrong). I don't think I'm alone, but haven't checked.

 

Let me make it clear:

I do not approve of the actions of the protesters you witnessed.

I do not feel the actions of a few reflect on the whole.

I feel bad that your friend may have lost her business over this. I don't consider it collateral damage. I consider it the actions of some assholes who have no business being involved in a movement asking for more fairness in our society.

In the larger economic scheme of things there's a possibility she may have come to lose her business anyway, and watched as those around her lost their businesses as well. People without jobs and money don't go out to eat, they don't shop in their community. When consumer's standards of living and disposable incomes decline, small businesses, which are reliant on them, begin to fail as well. This is where we are headed if something isn't done to alter the path we are on.

How do you propose we address the mess we're in? Yes, the protesters can all go home and hide their heads under the covers along with the rest of us. We can all make believe it isn't happening or hope it goes away by itself. If it doesn't and things become even worse, will we wish we'd been more supportive of imperfect people who at least tried to do something about it?

Does any of this make sense to you at all, pan?

 

All I can say is you get what you deserve, and I hope to God, that OWS has the answers and this wasn't all in vain.

I don't care who you are, when innocent people get hurt you still need to show sympathy, whether it is sincere or not.

No one is going to support a bunch of spoiled rotten vindictive self righteous asses.

Going in and stealing when she lets you use the john and then stops because you stole from her, allows you to be vindictive?

 

I agree that no one is going to support those who trash or steal from small businesses.

I think support for OWS is growing because more and more hard working people, of every age, occupation, race, religion, etc. are seeing a movement that is expressing their outrage over the fact that special interests have replaced the interests of the people.

IMO, those who characterize the movement as bunch of spoiled rotten vindictive self righteous asses were probably never likely to support it. I understand that some prefer the status quo.

 

You say this but on the other hand you say

what that stems from was the "noone has the right to complain, unless they themselves are willing to make the sacrifice that OWS has made."

Yeah, that will pay her bills feed her kids give her the family business back.

So no none of this makes sense, because we go in circles... it was ok... it wasn't ok..... you have no right to bitch unless you are there and sacrifice.... she has no right to bitch because she wasn't willing to sacrifice so we took from her and showed her.... innocents getting hurt is ok because it is for the greater good, even though we do not know that this WILL change anything. We just know that unless you sacrifice you have no rights to bitch. Yeah.

Again, I was a supporter but now, nope. Don't care "small group" the answers here go in circles, the truth is except for Alastair the posts of others keep going from: we don't believe IF it happened it was right. To guess we showed her, STFU you HAVE NO right to complain because you don't sacrifice."

Is that truly the mentality you want as a society?

 

That "noone has the right to complain" comment was talking about people sitting comfortably at home accusing the protesters of not making sacrifices.

The comment about the woman who lost her business was separate and I'm sure she wasn't included in the "noone has right to complain" comment (which was actually your paraphrase of a comment about something else entirely).

Two discussions. Miscommunication/misunderstanding.

 

I guess it is in the eyes of the beholder but IMO if one's eyes remains focused solely on one incident, they might miss the bigger picture.

 

I make my judgement by what Isaw there and what I see in the so called supporters here.

imagine if it was a friend of yours and you saw that treatment, I suppose you'd be ok with it also.

To imply that I would prefer the status quo is not knowing me at all, but it is better than the vindictive self righteous spoiled rotten little adult children I have seen there and observed through comments here.

Nothing OWS can do will get my support back. there is a need for change BUT OWS is NOT the group to do it. Nor is the TP. I don't like what either stands for. To me the OWS is nothing more than a TP wanna be group. Only the OWS is more vindictive. they come as friends and stab you in the back for their own purposes. Maybe in other countries it is different. But here no, I cannot support in any way a group that thinks vindictive behavior is ok and that no one unless they make the right sacrifices has a right to complain.

That's not America. That's definitely not an America I want to live in or have my children (if I ever have any other than my son) grow up in.

 

Alistair pointed out your misunderstanding.

I had no idea you were framing everything I said around this one incident with your friend.

Did you read anything I said in my prior post or were you more intent on trying to nail me to the wall with supposed inconsistencies? I really hate discussions where that is the only intent of the responder.

 

and one can say if you focus only on the bigger picture you miss the smaller finer details.

There is hope that the story will come out in the Cleveland media through the tv stations or newspaper, IF and when it does I will post it here and then YOU can make the call. As I said it was the GA leaders who directed people to stand in front of her store. That is the supposed leadership (that you say don't exist) acting like Nazis. The kicker is being laughed at.... and then on here being told she has no right to complain.... lol wow.

take your eyes off the big picture and look around at the smaller finer details that will eventually come out and show what you really are, vindictive, self righteous, spoiled rotten asses that lack any compassion for those who disagree with you.

 

Thanks for not making it personal.

 

No, wasn't trying to "nail you" on inconsistencies. Just pointing out hypocrisies, on one hand "noone can complain if they aren't willing to sacrifice" on the other, "IF that happened it was wrong but it isn't the WHOLE group"

so which is it? it's a cut and dry question.

Does she and her family and friends have a right to complain? Even if she didn't make the sacrifices that the Holier than thou group has made?

You can't have it both ways by saying no one not willing to sacrifice for the cause has a right to complain about them and .... well, what happened to her was wrong but she has no right to complain?

See circles.

edit: just saw Alastair's post all I saw originally was his edited double post.

Yes it could be miscommunication and misunderstanding. I'm willing to accept that.

 

That's enough, pan. You can have your opinions but you can't keep posting the same fucking lie over and over again after it has been pointed out to you several times that I NEVER SAID SHE DIDN'T HAVE A RIGHT TO COMPLAIN! I was talking about YOU!

YOU have no right to fucking complain about sacrifice when you aren't making any - irregardless of whether or not you are physically able. IS IT CLEAR NOW?

Btw, how do you know it was the GA leaders if you'd only been there once for a couple of hours? Did they have name tags across their chest that read "GA Leader?"
--- merged: Nov 20, 2011 5:36 AM ---
Portland pepper spray incident generates iconic Occupy photo



No sacrifice here.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0162fc928e4f970d-600wi

 

You're not going to find too many Americans that don't believe crony capitalism is big problem in this country. Obviously most of us do. But that doesn't change the fact that ows is a socialist movement consisting of spoiled, entitled youngsters.